Izzy

I wouldn't mind betting that one or both of the wires have come adrift under the sheath after the recent issues I have had with some Zimo MX600's. I bought four, two of which (unbelievably) turned out to be duds - quickly tested and replaced by the dealer - while the other two original ones keep having their wires coming adrift under the sheathing. Not easy to re-attach because it's a single sided board with the wires soldered in layers under the sheath, which has to be cut back to gain access. Izzy

Forgive me for going a bit OT, but I didn't know TTS decoders must only be used on 128SS. Since getting my TTS 31 I have only mainly used it on 28SS. I have had programming issues via JMRI/Decoder Pro but non at all using POM with the decoder set to 28SS or running the loco/sound. Have I just been lucky? Izzy

I'm amazed to see - perhaps I shouldn't be - that Hattons have secondhand 31's & 50's with chassis problems either listed or obvious from the descriptions, loose bufferbeams, bodies cracked etc, and still asking £100+ for them. Izzy

It may seem a bit peverse but I have always treated methfix a bit like waterslide, and pressfix which have lost their stick can be done in the same way. Cut the transfer out, put on the model and soak the backing paper off and slide into place. Then gently run a brush over loaded with a little meths which activates any 'sticky', but not too much or they can wrinkle. Leave to dry, followed by a coat of varnish to choice. Izzy

Many thanks. That's a very interesting and informative thread. Izzy

Could I advise a note of caution with the idea of using the class 20 TTS sound+decoder in the Bachmann 20. Having played about with the setup out of my new class 31 TTS I have found that the decoder motor parameters don't work too well with all motors even with cv alterations. The basis I understand is the Hornby 8249 decoder and while it controlled a Bachmann 08 and Heljan 15 quite okay - I just wanted to get an idea of what sound might be like fitted in them i.e. whether I would go down the sound in all my locos route (very expensive!) - but can't control a Bachmann 24 very well at all. Better on motor control 2, (cv150 set to 1 rather than 0), but it was then like a jack rabbit. On the default of 0 the loco just jerks along whatever the cv's. My experience with the 31 TTS is that it programmes okay on POM, no probelm at all, but is iffy/eratic on a program track/mode. Izzy

I must confess I don't have any real knowledge of what might be right or wrong with any of the 4mm 31's produced over the years, not ever having any of them, and I will do a thread in the RTR modification section of RMweb, but just to show what I believe is the basic potential of this loco here is a shot in it's current state-of-play with an awful lot still to do body wise, having been converted to P4 and had the bogies and chassis portions re-worked a bit. Izzy

I would agree the slow speed performance isn't great which IMHO is down to the motor. It got a very strong magnet, is quite coggy, and as a result gives out a fair bit of noise/vibration through the track, which is generally masked by the sound. I have not been able to find any decoder from those I have spare, Zimo/Lenz/CT/Digitrax/Bachmann besides that fitted into it by Hornby, which can overcome/eliminate the juddering which occurs at a particular slow rpm band. I had thought that I just had a poor/duff motor example but from reports like yours it would seem not. When time allows and I can obtain a couple of spare worms I will try installing another size/type/make of motor to see what results. The low 16-1 gearing ratio doesn't help either. It's got a stack of steel slab weights piled high in the fuel tanks - I may try and add more weight - and has pick-ups on all wheels in both driven and un-driven bogies. Of course you do have to allow for the traction tyres on two wheels - well I don't any longer but that's another story - but still gives five wheels a side if you offset the traction tyres. It is what it is, a Railroad model made to a price, not without faults, but with potential if you choose. Izzy

As has been said a really good show this year, most enjoyable with a good range of layouts and traders and a good balance between them as usual. Probably one of the more understated exhibitions around, perhaps as a result of being in August and about as far east as you can get. Could I put in a word for Trowland, Trevor Nunn's new small/portable S gauge layout built to take to exhibitions. Purely M&GN it's a nice size suitable for many such as myself with limited amounts of space and the quayside buildings of flint/stone with their pantile roofs are first rate. I also had the pleasure of meeting Phil Coplestone who was running it at the time. http://www.s-scale.org.uk/gallery27.htm The only downside was Webbs Wharf, the O gauge layout which has featured recently in the RM and set at a height that was too tall for myself or my wife to see it at all. Such a pity. Izzy

Okay, I'll see what I can do, and try and make sure I take a few shots as I do things. I often use them for reference (wiring runs or colours) or to check bits as I go along but forget at other times. I am glad I am not the only one to find the lowest level quite loud enough for home use. Interesting to discover that the individual levels are relative to the overall one. That is very useful, thanks. Izzy

They have correct sized wheels, traction tyres on one side each of the geared power bogie axles, and have 2.5mm axles. I don't know if EM/P4 conversion packs are available from either Ultrascale or Gibson (they may be for the full fat Hornby versions which appear to use different standards), but I have re-machined mine to run on P4. The axles are a force fit in one wheel and splined with a plastic bush in the other. It's currently being detailed. I'll do a thread if there is any interest. Izzy

There is a full listing of all the various cv's and their settings in the instruction leaflet, which I have to say is quite comprehensive and informative. You can adjust all the individual spot sounds - separate cv's - or set an overall sound level for all using cv182. There are 8 levels (actually nine, but 0 turns the sound off). The default for all sounds is 4. For home use I actually found I needed to reduce mine down to the lowest of 1. At 8 you could hear it down the road........I actually thought it was real one coming past - well nearly, as we still get the odd diesel tootle along the branch behind us, a noticeable change from the normal swish of the EMU's. Izzy

I have no idea whether the Prodigy is NMRA compliant, but that's not the issue or the problem, but whether using the sprog/jmri equipment somehow causes damage to the TTS decoder sound output. I can't see why it should, but this is what appears to have happened. The TTS has 8 levels of sound. At the maximum level 8 the decoders output is now no louder than it was at level 1 or 2 previously, as well as being much poorer in quality, hissing and muffled, as if the amp has been damaged, which I think it has. Izzy

I have been fiddling around with the TTS decoder settings in my new railroad 31 for the last few days. I can change cv's etc using POM with my Gaugemaster Prodigy no problem. But while I can initially read/write to it using my Sprog 2v3 and DP, it won't run using a JMRI throttle, and then returns wierd readings if I try to carry out further reading/writing. DP just can't see/identify it any more. Says the manufacturer dosen't exist - returns a code of 1. But put it on the layout and it runs just fine............except the sound quality and volume has decreased to a marked degree, and full resets - cv 08 to 08, don't make any difference. Hooked up different speakers - all 8ohm - and it's the same. Much poorer quality output compared to before using JMRI the first time. Leave it a while.close down JMRI etc, then restart it all, and blow me, it reads it again.. until you try running it using the JMRI throttle, where the same sequence starts again, although thankfully the sound degredation hasn't got any worse. I keep reading that a lot of Hornby stuff doesn't always truly conform with NMRA standards in all respects, and somehow I wonder if this is another case. Basic compatibility issues. But why it would degraded the sound output I can't say, just that it seems to have, which is very worrying and extremely annoying. Izzy

According to the spec sheet with the 31 TTS there are two motor control algorithms that can be used, 1 & 2. 1 is non-linear, 2 is a linear curve. These are set with cv150 the choice being CA1 = 0 and CA2 = 1. The default is 0 (CA1). This gives the slow speed control via cv's 151 &152. The range is 0-255 for both and the defaults are 8/8. For CA2 the cv's are 153 &154 and the settings are 215/115. This gives very fast running at these values at low speed steps. I am just wondering if when the Tech 6 is used in analogue mode with the decoder somehow it is setting CA2 instead of the default CA1. Izzy

Having tried and used most makes of decoders in both 2mm & 4mm it has to be said that while some decoder makes motor control can be made to work well with some locos with in some cases a bit of effort with cv tuning, it is only really the likes of Zimo, CT, and mostly Lenz, that can work well 'out of the box' with any loco/motor type they are mated with. In the recent past this came at a price premium, but with the current advent of the budget offerings from both Zimo & Lenz this is no longer the case, and using others now seems false economy to me. The Hornby 8249 decoder is a prime example,(and the basis for the TTS Sound decoders). Works quite well with some motors, but has virtually no adjustments if it doesn't i.e. no speed adjustment settings/ speed table. Izzy

Mine is now quite happily running around on my P4 layout/test plank. Some 'adjustments' to the body/underframe is now being started. The sound is quite good enough for my needs, indeed it seems quite impressive. It is the first sound loco I have bought, but how it could be bettered I am not sure. However, the slow speed running quality isn't perhaps all it could be. It is supposed to have a 5-pole skew armature motor - which I can't confirm because it's a sealed can motor - but the gear reduction is just 16-1 and the motor/gearing judders at a particular rpm, around speed step 3 on the 28 step scale, and worse in one direction than the other. This isn't the Hornby decoder motor parameters because it does the same on Zimo decoders. Perhaps some running in will help because tweaking of motor cv's can't eliminate it, and removing the capacitor across the motor terminals made no difference. Still happy with it though. Izzy

Although the waistband is raised and you can feel it quite easily if you run your finger over it, in real life terms it doesn't appear obviously thick, perhaps thanks to the way Hornby have applied the paint to it. This is of course a Railroad model, but it's interesting to see how basic it is, no makers plate or overhead warning patches as per the earlier Lima issue of the same number with the half yellow ends - as per a later post. But all credit to Hornby, the sound aspect is probably worth it alone at this price point, and even better at the prices Rails & others are asking. And it does allow you, if like me you like that kind of thing, to do a little modelling to add, as someone recently remarked, a little 'polish' to it, well maybe with a fair bit of elbow grease! Izzy

Just a few pics to illustrate the basics. From my brief time with this model I believe the body is nicely moulded, the waist level strip being a point in question, and will repay any time spent adding the kind of details most models have these days. The cab handrails and glazing being prime candidates for replacement along with adding the buffer beam cowlings and discs. Putting cabs inside will involve moving the speaker away from the end it's at. I think it should fit in the middle over the weights, but not sure if this would alter the way the loco sounds, knowing zilch about such matters. No doubt I shall find out. As this thread was started by Oliver from Rails - and my grateful thanks to him for starting it and bringing the loco to everybodys attention, as I intend to carry out the mods outlined above, as well as conversion to P4, I will start a thread in the Modifying RTR section with any other info/pics and will not clutter up this thread any further. cheers, Izzy

Just received mine from the BVR shop. First impressions are that the loco is fairly light, the chassis is a plastic moulding with a central weight, fitted with traction tyres, is a pretty basic one piece body moulding with just glazing and separate plastic cab handrails for the cab, and no bits to add like headcode discs etc, what you might expect from a Railroad badged model, but runs quite nicely and sounds good on my limited length of OO gauge track. How it might stack up against others from whatever source and standard (with regard to the sound) only others will be able to judge, but I am pleased I got it, and for a first sound fitted loco it certainly does encourage you to think, this is nice. The slow speed motor control is decent and the body looks to be a good basis for a bit of detailing as well. Izzy

Unfortunately it seems to be hosted on photobucket..........or is there another way of seeing it? Izzy

Perhaps you could alter the track a bit at the junction - I can't remember how far it had got when I saw it - and fit in a small exchange yard in lieu of the station. Or even off the long top siding in the plan. I was sort of thinking of the sidings at Haughly where the MSLR joins. So wagons coming of the Bury branch could be left to go on to Cambridge etc. Goods trains could reverse, Bury to Cambridge and visa versa. And of course Passenger trains could be 'held' at the junction signals awating the road to overcome the lack of a platform in which to pause. Anyway, very glad it has survived. especially considering all the care that went into the baseboard construction, which is beautifully made to a high standard. Thanks for sharing more shots of it. Izzy

It must be said that reading about locos with differing motor arrangements to that which was expected and provided with magazine review samples, one flywheel, two flywheels, motors fitted reversed, does not give complete confidence in those offered for sale. One could be forgiven for gaining the impression that the factory ran out of parts with which to assemble the locos and found an ad-hoc work-around to complete them, just missing in the process the fact that the motor wires were not reversed to suit and the locos thus run the opposite to normal convention. However, reading further comments about poorly placed/executed printed details made down to a price rather than up to a quality seems to resonate with me. Indeed this is the overall view I am left with after reading all the comments posted on the various threads relating to the Oxford locos, Radial, Dean Goods, etc released to date. This might be unfair and the fault is poor assembly/QC, but the end result is the same. Izzy

Total height is about 24mm, width 10.5. Should mention that all HL gearboxes now use grub screw fixing for the final drive gear. I believe I am correct in saying this, and I don't think it alters the final size of any of the designs, but some ratio's are slightly different. The roadrunner+ I got recently is now 60-1 rather than 54-1 for example. Izzy

Hi Londontram, In order to try and help until HL's site is up and running again I have attached the gearbox planner PDF you can normally download from there. If you have the means to print it out onto transparent sheet of some kind - I have even used tracing paper - then it's quite good putting it over a loco drawing to gauge how things might fit. gearboxplanner.pdf cheers, Izzy