ThaneofFife

I dont even think one has to mention any names to know who the trouble makers are.

I know there were some sidings and postal bays (was there also a goods depot in that vicinity in 1979?) on the west side of the station at the southern end so maybe they emanated from here?

Pfff....never heard of that before andi. i can see your point makes some sense in theory but in practice not so sure as juggling aircon stock around to ensure it avoids neutral sections ie; avoiding electric locos, sounds a right faff.

Bad business at that, on the evidence presented here. As for Dapol availability - Orders by Phone/Post/Online anyone?

I model for myself and care not a jot in whether my results promote me to the ranks of the so called "made it" brigade. Having unsolicited praise heaped upon you for your efforts is one thing. Spending time wondering about whether you see yourself as reaching some higher place in the modelling world is quite another. Enjoying what you do is the main thing.

No need, there are a few examples shown in Modern Locomotives Illustrated for the Class 80 to Class 85 for anybody that has it. One of the 85s even hauling a Glasgow to Euston pictured at Crewe with Mk1 Mk2 and Mk3 stock in tow. They hauled Mk3s alright that much weve established. I wish I could go along with the suggestion made about the Liver/Manchester "splitters" via Preston as these were rarely if ever made up of Mk3 stock having travelled many a time on these trains north and southbound in the late 70s to mid- 80s. They were largely a mix of the early Mk2 and then later Mk2e/f plus your BG or what have you Mk1. Ive certainly never seen or heard of any Mk3 rakes getting joined or split either at Preston during the period mentioned. Mk3s may well have been split at Carstairs but not on services to Liver/Man. The 85 does stand a good chance of having just brought the stock in from Edge Hill CS as empties but that alone doesnt explain the conundrum that is, why is 1st is at the Liverpool Lime Street end.........the mystery rattles on and so do the speculations!

well i can see having the different frame (for those locos that received the new glass) might be important to some modellers but i doubt anyone would feel robbed if the thickness of the drivers pane wasnt shall we say........ "to scale". I'm all for detail but this wouldnt lose me any sleep.

Although I cant tell looking at the windows it is possible that vehicle was declassified to 2nd class, maybe on a weekend. A common practice during this period circa 1982. Also its not beyond the realms of possibility that the stock had to be reversed at Birmingham New Street or on the Soho circle if there was a blockage on. Failing that it does seem uncommon to not have 1st at the Euston end and barriered with a BG. We're getting some great photos of roarers just lately and this one at Lime Street is a really good B&W one.

Re; Sheds Check with your insurance company that any locks used on sheds meet with their requirements. For a valuable collection they would probably also want to know about its construction including the type of windows fitted. Tagged micro dots can also be brushed onto your models.

The 85 in BR TOPS days could quite often be seen hauling many a train with Mk3s, sometimes full rakes as stand in for a 86 or 87.

well thanks for those photos Derek as they really are an eye opener. I see what Andi was talking about now with the reinforced frame. At least the centre window on the model is bang on then as it clearly should be taller than those either side - I previous thought they were all level. I never noticed before on the real things-photos like this really do help to avoid the blurring that your memory suffers from since the 1990s.

I can just about make out a smidgen of a difference in height but I am struggling to convince myself its there at all. Its like when my GP told me last week that I had a hernia "it was so small as to be insignificant". I reckon its the camera possibly causing a trick on us as the cab front is mildly curved (side to side) and from certain angles it can appear that the drivers window has a touch more frame at the bottom. Its the same on the other side but less obvious as its a slightly different angle of shot. However who thinks the centre window looks a touch higher than the ones on either side? Its probably less obvious on BR blue versions but on this electric blue version with the white paint it does seem to go higher up. see pics 1,3 and 4. ....and finally in the last pic. is that insulator next to the pantograph nearest the camera supposed to be that large?

with my eyesight they all look exactly the same. which pic shows it up best then? i am still trying to figure out how Bachmann came to the decision to fit a 00 gauge figure of TellyTubby "Po" in the drivers seat.

Clearly this has been in the planning stages for sometime then given the close timing of the retailers annoucements for special editions. Long overdue. Good to hear modellers wont be waiting for 2.5 years.

This was a detail picked up on almost a year ago. An etch may be made available unless Bachmann add 4 cowls into the detailing pack for retro fitting because of course from new youll know they didnt have them

Great photos of all 3 releases. If these dont spark a whole range of brand new electric locos then nothing will whether its from Bachmann or anybody else. The AL1 is probably just around the corner.

How is progress adrian. have you painted the blue yet? the thread has been very interesting to read and i like how youve cobbled this from an 86 shell. whats the plan for the running gear- will you go for a Bachmann 85 chassis (if it fits) ?

Bachmann wont run this out without a full range of improvements and that includes the lighting. Reason I say this is that it just wouldnt make sense to wave it through with just the new chassis given that there isnt far to go now before all the diesels have been released so why invest now only to do a 50% retool when it might cost them much more to do the other 50% 3 or 5 years from now (or from when these come out rather). Expect fewer all new models now as there isnt much left to do anyway and more refreshers of the existing models with the classes 08, 20 and 25 immediately springing to mind. Whilst all the 40 noses may not be available immediately i cant see them just running with the 2. Failing that you dont necessarily have to rely on Bachmann anyway as a retailer might decide to run with one of the other nose end type and run it as a special.

within reason yes but preferably whilst we are still on this mortal coil please.

a number of items have recently moved up on the Bachmann release calendar so there is a chance things will come through even earlier so i dont see xmas as being too much too ask.

seems to be a lot of unhappy friends here when it comes to ebay. why not try another form of buying or selling your items? a lot of people make out ebay is the be all and end all of buying and selling model railways. craigs list, ebid, gumtree to name a few. if i can pick up on one point. on the issue of people ignoring T&Cs i think they do read them but choose to disregard them and thats the difference between your sensible level headed buyer and the less salubrious buyer who looks for pinholes in listings on which they can contrive a situation to their own ends. most sellers are trying to cover themselves from the many unscrupulous buyers who claim not to have received items, when they had, in order to get a refund from ebay and then keep the item on top or sell it on. many seem to think this reads that the buyer is out to rip you off which is a little harsh. i actually believe a lot of disappointment can be avoided if you just do a little homework on the seller first. its very easy and will at least give you a heads up about a potential rip off merchant. fact is, it is the buyer who is in the best possible position to obtain a full refund for a lost item because unless the seller bought from new and has a receipt, only the buyer has the proof of what it cost them. they have an invoice from the seller via ebay. if it were left to the buyer to claim a refund for the lost item, where is his proof of what he originally paid for the item? he might have paid £10 for an item and the winning bid was £50 so he got lucky and raised £40 perhaps towards another loco or track etc. (lets assume we all like to make a little profit here and not get bogged down with alerting the local taxman). he wont be able to use the invoice he sent to his buyer as his item didnt cost him £50 but he would still have to send the buyer his £50 back plus he has lost his item. ive been in this situation myself and even after apologising for the apparently lost item and quickly refunding the money some buyers still seem to go into vendebtor mode and leave really negative feedback. just because a buyer sends me payment 1 minute after a an auction has ended will not change the fact that in my listing i may have said that the item will be dispatched within say 5 days. the royal mail insist you provide evidence as to what the lost item cost to you and if you bought it say from a toy fair you wont have a receipt or other evidence so youll just get a book of 1st class stamps if youre lucky. ive been on both ends and take it from me its not all about a few sellers trying to pull fast ones. hopefully my comments will help bring a little balance to the issue of ebay dislikes. if you want an analogy; people often refer to rogue builders but the fact is for every one rogue builder out there there is one rogue customer..............

thats good to hear.

yes youre absolutely right. its common sense really. weve a fair few one off diesels yet to go which most people know about anyway but IN THE MAIN all the diesels will be done by 2013 and lets not forget that in the next 12 months we could still see the less common locos be announced anyway.

I can certainly see Dapol replicating their excellent N gauge Class 86 into 4mm. Whether Heljan will venture into doing another AC is anyones guess but the remark earlier about the pylon they put on the roof for a pantograph certainly made me chuckle but youre spot on, the pantograph is awful. Not sure about the Class 82 and 84. I would categorize these 2 classes of electric as being must haves only for the real hard core out there that really want models of these and so I cant see them selling in big numbers. They certainly werent famous for hauling mainline express passenger on the WCML. im not sure they are as popular or as desirable a model over the mainstay locos 81, 85, 86 and 87. I think the release of new ACs will be thought out in proportion to how many locos occupied each class hence i placed the 82 and 84 quite low down in ranking against the 25 members of the 81 and 15 members of the 83. I would place the 84 ahead of the 82. my logic may be flawed though as we have had some real bolt out of the blue releases on the diesel prototype front where only 1 or 2 were in each class. As Ben Jones pointed out though in last months Model Rail, all the diesels come 2013 will have been released in 00. This leaves all of the early ACs to be attacked next. We may even see the competition go up against Hornby with 87 and/or 90.........it would be nice.

well id say thats a pretty rare photo Tom. well done mate. this has the hallmarks of a limited editions 85. great stuff. oh on the subject of loco release again i dare say many light engines trundled off to Shields Road electric depot a few miles outside of Central (where the APT was based).