DavidH

Sorry Barry, but I've never seen an operational covered van that looks quite like that. Look at this Paul Bartlett photo - the underframe brown/grot covers all the underframe, including the frames, with prominent oil stains at and around pivots and axleboxes. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brvanplanked/h2fb14f29#h35ef42b6 There are plenty of other vans in the same folder with similar oil staining. Most of them have heavier dirt patterns on the body too, especially around the strapping. The coal wagon's looking good, however.

Would it not be easier to just turn the ad blocker off for that one page? If you write to them you're essentially saying "I want to be able to read your article for free". I'm coming from the book publishing world admittedly, but I don't think I'd be very sympathetic with that approach.

Thanks Wheatley for reminding me of the original date of announcement - because the law we've been quoting is from 12 June 2014. For contracts entered into before that date (according to Which), the Distance Selling Regulations still apply: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations However, the main difference of interest here seems to be that the right to cancel is a minimum of 7 days (from receipt of goods) after you receive the goods, not 14. The non-qualifying items are the same, so model railway items would still be included. Having said all that, it depends on the definition of "contracts entered into" - I suspect (although do not know) that expression of interest would not be considered a contract, so the "contract" date would be from the point at which people were contacted to confirm the order and arrange payment, i.e. covered by the Consumer Contract Regulations. Another thing occured to me - as the model is now with Kernow, have they taken over after-sale responsibility for the ones sold under the RMWeb banner, or just the ones they sell?

It's probably worth stating the exemptions in full, for avoidance of doubt: Exemptions There are some circumstances where the Consumer Contracts Regulations won’t give you a right to cancel. These include, CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. Also included are goods that have been mixed inseparably with other items after delivery. (source: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations) But as railway models are mass-produced, as drcoz says, you can cancel/return them. If there wasn't that right, there is no way I'd be ordering a model without at least seeing a working pre-production model.

I totally agree with you, the bloke who started his own business from scratch, who routinely flies between the UK and China to manage a manufacturing contract, who landed exclusive model contracts with two of the UK's premier model shops, was put in an impossible position by a message from a fellow manufacturer about their own production plans, and was absolutely duty bound to reveal to all of us on a completely open forum the subject of that exchange of emails, including revealing said other manufacturer's own product plan. Wouldn't anyone have done the same, in similar circumstances? One would feel almost duty bound to. But as you say, best we move on.

But that's exactly what you did! Intention counts for nothing in the world of black-and-white print. We can (still) see what you said. I recall a time on this forum, not so long ago, when people were warned about releasing the Hornby new year announcement ahead of time. Is there a business case or not? If there isn't, don't do it. If there is, get on with it and be wary of running your business plan via committee on this forum. As you repeatedly remind us, we haven't put our house on the line for this, what do we know about manufacturing? (And remember that applies to the enthusiastic "I'll have five of those" as much as the voices of doom and gloom.)

The locos came from Brighton. The Brighton-Horsham and Horsham-Guildford services were worked from Brighton, at least in Winter 1960 (see my posting last page). Crews came from either Brighton or Horsham. Unless there is a Guildford duty to cover the Horsham line ... ... but there are no Guildford duties for the Horsham line listed in Chris Gammell's book; however, this is unsurprising as the data for this division is from 1966, which is after the Horsham line closed, so rather unhelpful ... Looking at the Summer 1960 locoshed book, I can find no H class locos allocated to Guildford (70C). Without knowing when the Brighton duties changed from M7 to H class, I can't be sure if this is significant. What we need is the Winter 1960 duties list for Guildford ... There are a handful of Guildford allocated M7s in Summer 1960, but don't know at this time what they worked (I'm sure others can provide this information). In Summer 1960 there is at least one H class allocated to Three Bridges (75E) of which Horsham is a subshed. However, the only Three Bridges duty allocated to Hs is the East Grinstead-Three Bridges service. Three Bridges has no Horsham duties. All with the proviso that I assume both books are reliable - I haven't cross-referenced against other contemporary sources (because I don't have them). Hope this helps!

Photographic evidence puts them on some Brighton-Horsham services at least in late 1950s to withdrawl. Have a look at Ian D. Nolans photos (e.g. "late 50s" 31276 at Hove: https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/9785637081/in/album-72157612230218431/). 31276 was shedded at Brighton in 1960 if the Locoshed book is accurate. Looking at Southern Region Engine Workings (CJ.Gammell, OPC), duties 747-752 in Winter 1960 were allocated to an H class, and involved trips between Brighton and Horsham and Horsham and Guildford, as well as one Pulborough-Horsham duty and a couple of hours shunting the Pullman shops. According to one of the photo captions they had replaced M7s on these duties. They were in turn replaced by Ivatt 2-6-2Ts

The idea of using lots of small vehicles has been tried already, in the early/middle 1980s - if I remember correctly. E.g. in Oxford they replaced most of the fleet with Ford Transits - and many other operators followed with minibuses (called variously Buzzas, Fox Cubs, etc.) - all running on very frequent interval services, meaning no waiting at the bus stop. Yes, they were popular as you guessed, but so popular the next generation of the vehicles quickly needed more seats - e.g. Mercedes Benz conversions, or Optare CityPacers based on a VW chassis. Then moving the story quickly on, proper buses were taken on - MCW/Optare MetroRiders, Dennis Darts, short Volvos, with 30-40 or so seats ... back to nearly full size buses. In Oxford they have a city of fleet of almost entirely double-deckers now (their fleet list is online!), which should tell us something about the economics and practicalities of moving a lot of people on popular public transport. And although you talk about the "monopoly causing the congestion", the congestion caused by lots of minibuses running on 5-minute headways all trying to get into centres of population causes as bad, if not worse congestion. (And is nothing compared to the space taken up by 50 cars all containing approx one person, set against a double decker carrying 80.) I agree with you about modern shopping needing a car - but that is just a lifestyle choice many of us (me included) make. We used to do it without cars, we can do it without cars again - and we can now shop online too (as covered elsewhere, I didn't see all the other replies as I wrote this). It's just a passing phase.

Dave - have you made any changes to the overall shape since the last prototype emerged on these pages? Or do you still have things to change, these being deco samples?

At least Hornby's doesn't have the rainstrip, so there's less to remove with the scalpel.

I wondered about this, but a quick search here and on the web suggests there isn't an overwhelming body of complaints that their coreless motors have died using feedback controllers. To put it in perspective, I have locos bought over the last 30 years, from all the main manufacturers, some of which don't partiularly like the AMR HH (early feedback I believe) although some work like a dream on it; those that don't like the AMR work better on the Gaugemaster W (non-feedback); and of course most seem ok with the old steam-powered Duette. This basically suggests to me there's already variation, often from the same manuacturer, in how the motors in different models respond. If the coreless motors work better on one controller over another, it is merely part of a long-standing issue, and nothing to throw up our hands in horror at the idea of - it just needs a pragmatic work-around if issues arise. But that's just one opinion among many. In any case, a new controller from e.g. Gaugemaster can be a fraction of the cost of the Hornby 71. In fact, the W type is about a quarter of the cost. What's the problem?

It's not the one orignally at Southbourne, which looks like it was on the other side of the line, although that doesn't preclude it being (in part at least) one moved from elsewhere. http://www.signalbox.org/gallery/s/southbourne.php

It was only once I passed 40ish that I realised that every generation has modern-obsessed sneering types ... "Make it new" (Ezra Pound, 1934). I realise that everyone born since 1948 will have grown up as the post-war UK replaced generations-old urban centres with concrete shopping centres, themselves often since replaced. As for rebellion against the ultra-modernists, we/you are following in good foodsteps: Nairn, Betjemen ... (And ironically, since modern itself is an already generations-old concept ... just what is it I am rebelling against?) Oh sorry, new Peco track: yep, good idea

One and a half?

I had a go at this comparison last week, and tried to send it to Dave. As it isn't working for us by PM, I'll post here. Apologies for the spelling, I didn't notice it until it was too late, and I hadn't the heart to start again. Now, I first should say that I think the moulding of the bogies in particular is first class, and the body is close - so nearly - perfect. I know a lot of hard work has gone into this. Going now to the comparison photo above, and the other photos posted on previous pages, I believe I can see a certain "up and down-ness" to the front end, in fact the corners/edges look completely straight (see image), whereas on the real loco there is a very slight bulge at the waist and then the cab corner curves inwards - the Bulleid coach profile spoken about earlier. (I'm trying to be precise about the description, but I hope the photo above makes this much clearer.) This straightness to the front profile is particularly noticeable at the far end cab of the 3/4 photos - most photos of the real locos taken from a similar angle show the front end curving in on itself. The model has a bit of a wedge look to it. (Please note, I know the cab front slopes back from side on; I'm talking about the 3/4 view, when the curving bodyside profile starts to become apparent.) Of course, I acknowledge that the focal length of the lens used for model/real loco will be different, and what I see may disappear with subtle shifts of angle and camera zoom. The shadow at the top of the body/cab corner, in particular, may simply be an illusion caused by the lighting on the model. Also I agree with Ceptic, the cab doors are recessed (and shouldn't be), and the buffer beam fairings appear to go straight down when they should follow the bodyside curve.

Except that's not quite what he said, by truncating the sentence and taking it out of context you've made a nonsense of Martyn's argument, in order to fit your particular agenda. Are you a politician perchance? ;-)

Dave, I sent you a PM last week. I see on the J94 thread that messages from you to someone else haven't got through, so not sure if my message has been received or not.

But when other manufacturers come up short and leave stuff to be changed or added, or modified, all hell breaks loose ...

Well, given that the Hornby version has the lifting brackets, I doubt its omission here is to put them off. Actually, I feel that the Hornby model catches the character better (although this one is a fine bit of moulding) and they're modelling the original body, without the rain strip/gutter, which was added later (and Dave confirmed ages ago that he won't be modelling the original body style). I also still feel there is a slight lack of curvature on the lower body sides - in particular, looking along the many 3/4 views, the cab profile at the far end has something of a "shovel" upward curve about it, whereas when I look on photographs, the end seems to curve under slightly. This is probably all due to perspective and the different camera lenses used, however. The fact that noone else has commented leads me to assume that I'm probably wrong.

That looks to me like an illusion caused by the angle the model is photographed at. However, what is really needed to nail your question is a front-on photo, at the very least.

Is that any different to the race to be the first person to post a picture of the newest model, show off that they could afford e.g. a rake of Drax wagons, or say "I've ordered xxx Kings"?

I understand your worries, but I think they're misplaced and quite probably not a new phenomenom. I think the modern world encourages people to have many interests, far more than people were ever expected to have e.g. 50 years ago. And whatever society does or doesn't encourage today is no worse than (say) living in a mining community in the 1930s and not wanting to follow your dad down the mine. Or all those musicians (e.g.) in the 1960s told to "Cut your hair and get a proper job". And of course the media and advertising are trying to distract us - that's what they do, they're businesses, but that's what they've always done. Your point ("modern continuous distractions hinder people from that") I agree with, but I think that says more about people themselves and their inability to focus than any new malign influence from "society". Why should parents seek out the new experience after seeing Flying Scotsman - any more than if they saw any other exciting event? The kids will look if they're fired up about it, in the same way that during the 2005 Ashes lots of people suddenly rediscovered cricket, but no one should force a hobby on them if they're not interested (or can't afford it).

They're getting something a bit like that in Bristol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-35266916

But from that article: "Some insiders suggest Mr Ames’ departure is simply designed to offer up a scalp to protect Mr Glynn."