County of Yorkshire

And also this beauty. CoY

He is going where I happened to be yesterday... If someone released an RTR J27 I'd definitely buy one... to accompany my Q6!!! An 0-6-0 never offends? CoY

It's a GWR 15xx, isn't it?

Please could I ask what you will use for a roof? Whilst a GWR man, I have a soft spot for attractive steam-age coaching stock.

Yep, important to reiterate that the Dynamometer car was a NER vehicle of 1906 originally, and is very similar externally to the GWR's effort of 1901. It owes nothing to GNR practice. CoY

I am fairly sure that this will have been discussed on RMweb in the past, but it never hurts to reopen interesting debates. As my modelling mojo shows no sign of returning; having abandoned me in the first few weeks of this year, I have been musing on what layout I would build if time, money, space and skillset were not limited. Ergo, if I had Bernard's watch, a blank cheque, an empty Ally Pally, and access to all the finest modelling craftsman of our age: what would I build? I have, for the moment, settled on a 1:76 (probably to P4 standards!) rendition of the GWML from Paddington Station to Old Oak Common, set around 1947. I would have Kings, Castles, Stars and Counties on heavy West of England, South Wales and Birmingham expresses featuring plenty of 70ft stock of all design styles. I would have 61xx's on suburban passenger trains, 57xx's and the first of the 94xx's fussing around as station pilots. I would have the Paddington goods station fully modeled, with panniers putting together a long van train for a 47xx to take off into the night, as a 28xx arrives. I would also ensure that the Hammersmith and City Line was modeled in the background, as well as the Grand Union Canal further West. I would model the station up to and including Praed Street, inclusive of the Great Western Hotel, and the Lawn would be seen courtesy of a glass-less roof (think the excellent Liverpool Lime Street), and Old Oak Common would be there in full, with all roundhouses, the coaling plant, and the carriage sidings (complete with enough coaching stock so as to be true to life!). And yes, Bishop's Bridge Road would have a double decker bus on it... What would you go for? CoY

Thanks for clearing that up. May I ask what your reference is; purely for my own knowledge and purposes? Interesting also that a 1940 built loco did not have its cabside windows fitted, although I suppose all cab windows were plated over pretty sharpish after 01/09/1939! CoY

Two examples: - The most recent Grange release in GWR livery, which came out early this year, was in Shirtbutton. This takes the total number of Granges released to date by Hornby in Shirtbutton livery to 3. The number of Granges released by Hornby in G-W-R livery? 0. - In 2015 Hornby released two 2800's in GWR livery - 2807 and 2811, both in GREAT WESTERN livery. This takes the total number of 2800's released to date by Hornby in GREAT WESTERN livery to 3. The number of 2800's (NOT 2884's) released by Hornby in G-W-R livery? 0. I'll say no more! CoY

Allegedly the Ainslie family (one of the two farm owners), who were quoted by the Daily Fail as saying: 'They are just big bullies who want their train set and don't seem to care what they have to do to get it. The habitats that survive there are incredible. We are continuing to try to protect this for future generations.' are currently applying for planning permission to build 160 houses on part of their other farm at Bexhill! CoY

I agree, so I had to make my own! CoY

Apologies gentlemen, for I have been a little vacant with this. Just dug out GWRJ No.7 and the 2800/2884's aren't listed - it sticks to the named 4-6-0's only i'm afraid. However, as 3822 entered service in April 1940 in what would have been GWR Green and Shirtbutton, it wouldn't take a huge leap of faith to venture that it was never in works for a heavy general before summer 1945 (a shade over 5 years in service), and as it was reallocated from Llanelli to Pontypool Road in Mach 1947, I would venture that it had a heavy general between these two depot allocations, and likely went straight from (a very workworn) GWR Green Shirtbutton to GWR Green G-W-R at this time, having never carried wartime black. In which case Didcot's livery choice would have been a fiction for this particular loco, but class mates will definitely have received the wartime black. I could, however, be totally wrong in the assumption above! Someone with access to the engine records (at Kew/NRM?) would hold the definitive answer. I have made an educated guess. EDIT: See post #21 below. CoY

I forgot to add that I've a copy of the GWRJ that lists the (tender) locos that were outshopped in GWR black during 1942-1945 inclusive. Let me know if you've a candidate loco you were thinking of and I'll look it up. CoY

The first 2884's were built from March 1938 and GWR green with Shirtbutton emblem was the livery for all newly built locos during this period. This continued up until mid-1942 when wartime black livery was introduced for all newly built locos and also those going through a heavy general overhaul, the branding was also changed from the Shirtbutton to G-W-R (for tank engines and mixed traffic and goods tender locos) and also G-Crest-W (for express passenger locos) at this time. GWR green only returned toward the end of hostilities in mid-1945, when unlined GWR green was used for all locos aside express passenger, and the branding remained as outlined above. Hornby's 3803 was built in Jan 1939 and so would almost certainly have been outshopped in GWR green with the Shirtbutton. Being a heavy freight loco it will have been unlikely to have received a heavy general overhaul for at least the next 5-7 years - given wartime traffic needs - and so I would think it went into the works after the cessation of hostilities, and was thus turned out in unlined GWR green with G-W-R branding sometime during 1945/1946 - just as the Hornby model is. In terms of your modeling needs, I think your best bet would be to pick up a Hornby 3803, and either re-brand the tender with t-cut & cocktail stick approach with some shirtbutton transfers, or scour bay and swapmeets for a spare Hornby 2800 tender from their 2812 release, which was in Shirtbutton. The 3803 and 2812 models were released around the same time and so the loco to tender 'plug' coupling ought to be identical, thus causing you less hassle. Also note that if you wanted to model the loco during wartime you would need to add the steel cabside window shutters as such: Hope this proves of use. CoY P.S - I have always found this blog post by Buffalo of this parish, a key resource for the 2800/2884's.

Were you in attendance for, perhaps, a R&D meeting about a Western Region prototype perchance Mike? CoY

Superb! CoY

How about it piloting an ailing King at the head of a Summer Saturday down CRE? CoY

Ha. No wonder he doesn't have any feedback yet - he can't of sold anything! CoY

Whilst I do not need any ECJS/GNR stock for my modelling needs, i would regard this as a hugely positive step were it to happen. With many steam locomotive prototypes now increasingly covered or 'earmarked' for release, perhaps the emphasis over the next 10 years will fall onto coaching stock? Tapping into the collectors market in addition to the modellers market might make this a viable thing to do in product development terms. What chance for STEAM Museum Swindon to invest in some fully-panelled Dreadnoughts or Toplights for their Lode Start model!? One can dream! CoY

Three further thoughts I've had since this morning: - What's happened to Skaledale? Hornby were very much the market leader here and this spawned Bachmann's Scenecraft and Oxford's 'Buildings' range, yet it sank without trace in 2018's announcements. Instead we get 50 year old plastic scenery tat at laughable prices, which brings me on to... - Which market segment is the Grand Suspension Bridge, ACME station canopy and fencing etc aimed at? Hornby have patently signaled their intent to abandon the kids market with the termination of the TTTE licence, and with no successor range yet mooted for that market. Furthermore, no modeller worth his salt is going to pay £20 for a 1960's platform canopy when a) they look terrible (especially when a £205 Duchess is parked up alongside) and b) they are available in good new/used condition for 25% of the price on Ebay. Surely the volume nor margin make these 1960's hangovers worthwhile? There is also a credibility issue here too - utterly confusing marketing. - Focus on what you are good at. Hornby for me are the market leader in RTR steam-era coaching stock, and when they are good they are very good - of late see the GWR Colletts and Southern ex-LSWR rebuild non-corridors. Why then not commit to some new coaching ranges that can legitimately appear in eye-catching liveries and that can be hung off pre-grouping locos for the collector's and modeller's markets? Hornby are, for me, uniquely placed to mop-up here, given their track record and, dare I say it, quicker lead-times than Barwell. I bet if Sandwich put their minds to it they could beat Bachmann to market with some Bullieds, but what about some 1910-1930's coaching fleets that were long lived and could wear half a dozen liveries? GWR Toplights, non-corridors and a 'paneled' autocoach? LMS Period I stock? GNR/ECJS clerestories to hang behind Locomotion's Stirling Single and Ivatt Atlantic? LSWR Ironclads or Boat Train stock? There's a not-insignificant market here. All that being said, and as has been discussed earlier in this thread, you do think the market has changed irrevocably and Hattons, to me, seemed to have nailed the required business model: - To be the designer, commissioner, wholesaler and retailer rolled into one (think of the margins - both GP and NP - as compared with Sandwich!) - To play on said luxurious margin and price very competitively - To offer overwhelming choice up front and capture the vast majority of market demand (this then opens up more wallets, which maximizes revenue. Not to be macabre, but this is a shrinking market given demographics, and thus why hold-off a livery variant for year 3 when you have an existing customer base for it now? One in the hand is worth two in the bush...) - To prey on the 'exclusivity factor' (once they've gone, they've gone, thus spurring pre-orders which de-risks financially and is excellent for cashflow. See most varieties of the GWR 14xx and the early period OO Warwells - you now cannot get them!) - Finally, to be masters of PR and marketing with well-timed announcements, lead-times made of levity, well-communicated timely updates, and slick use of digital and social media. (This breeds credibility, customer confidence, and helps fill the order book). Whatever happens, it's all interesting! CoY

The new Duchesses are £205. Ok... The age of the £200+ RTR steam loco is here! Retailers talked of the '£100' psychological barrier for RTR locos, but what of the £200 barrier? Hornby must be hurtling toward the door marked 'low volume, high margin', and if they ain't, well I don't see much hope for them. If the room behind the door turns out to be the room of low volume, low margin, then that does not a business make. £205! CoY

! Poor thing.

I agree with this. People compare kit prices with RTR prices - moreso with rolling stock then locos - but it's an unfair comparison due to the manufacturing quantities involved and thus the unit prices. Personally, as a modeller of the GWR in 1945-1947, I need toplights in decent quantities, and if these come back on the market I'd happily pay up to around £60, perhaps even £75 or so a kit. I'd also want about ten or so, with the balance being the TK.

My stab in the dark is the GWR 2900 class... Well, the first of the production series was built in May 1906, thought I couldn't tell you whether it was the 8th or not... Will Hornby by Saints or Sinners? CoY