Forester

The Kentish (ex Thanet) Belle was where they sent old Pullmans to die, to match the ancient stock then running throughout Kent! Maid of Kent was a rebuild of an Ambulance Car of First World War vintage! Coral was an old J-Type Kitchen car. Cars 11, 15 and 16 were J-Type cars converted to Brakes. Car 132 was converted from the J-Type Kitchen Car Anaconda, as was Car 133 similarly from Erminie, and Car 135 from Elmira ...see, there's a trend here! Hornby probably passed over the J-Type Pullmans as so many were converted, choosing K-Type instead, more of which survived as Firsts and those downgraded to Third Class were converted to a fairly standard pattern. So, sorry, Kentish/Thanet Belle is one-off Pullman set for kit-build, or use Precision Labels.

None in 1929 but several found their way on to the South Wales Pullman in the 1960s

Not sure why Andy thought only Loraine went to the Southern Region? According to Antony Ford, Agatha was also there by 1961 along with nine others. Several more were transferred later in the 1960s. I much prefer grey for the roof, though. Is it white or silver in the pictures.

In general, the original (i.e. early crest) standard BR colour scheme was for green locos to carry black plates and lined black ones to carry red plates. The late crest period lead to variations by different workshops. Red plates became common on green locos and black on lined black ones. If you model BR early crest you will usually be safe with the standard scheme but if it's late crest, especially beyond about 1960, you need a dated photo to be certain.

Interesting thread. I'd like to see a list pinned somewhere for reference.

Count the washout plugs along the firebox. 5 WC, 6 MN. Yes of course there are nameplates and numbers and smoke deflectors and tender variations, but sometimes these are not visible or clearly shown in photo you want to identify. More importantly, it will tell if that unrebuilt MN model you are about to spend your inheritance on is really an MN or just a re-plated WC/BB - which happens a lot!

Rob's picture reminds me why I have never had a King (RTR or kit) that really satisfied. It's that bogie. No, not the rivets and frames and springs, but the way it sits on the model. Or rather, the way the model never seems to sit on it. To produce a really nice King that daylight has to be eliminated. To do that might require the very opposite of what the rivet counters demand - maybe a bit of non-prototypical trickery (well a mm perhaps) around the frames to produce a model that looks right on the track with no daylight. OK Hornby. Put your heads together, find a fix for the bogie and make it a brilliant model.

Everyone models Merchant Navy locos with red nameplates. When first rebuilt they had black plates. These drew attention to the lovely crests in the centre. Blue Star's crest shows up particularly well with black plates: the neat red flag with the blue star in the centre. Red plates drown out the crests. The result is many Bulleid fans (Bulleid experts included) can tell you every last detail of the loco, but ask them to describe the crests, even though they look at them every day, and they haven't a clue!

In 1954 the Arrow was at its peak weight and often in the hands of original Merchant Navy locos 35026, 35027, 35028 and the two Britannias. They did try out the Bulleid diesel-electric 10202 for a while in 1954. Perhaps that was a failure leading to a substitution.

Sounds like a substitute for the rostered Arrow loco, especially if it was late. Any idea what year that was? 34076 41 Squadron (sorry for the thread creep) was one of a batch of Arrow regulars in malachite from new in 1948 and then moved on when the next new batch arrived, 34083 to 34085. The loco therefore already had the arrow clips, not that this was a necessity when looking for a quick replacement for a sick loco. Up to 1950 Stewart's Lane didn't have to clean 'em, just replace them with nice new ones a few months later!

Thanks for that. It would have been an interesting time at Stewart's Lane. It temporarily lost three Merchant Navy locos; 35026.35027 and 35028, while Dover lost two 35029 and 35030. Spring/Summer 1953 would have seen the Golden Arrow at its heaviest. This was a period when the extra grunt of the MNs seemed to be preferred over the Britannias and Light Pacifics which were fitted for the job. There was the Night Ferry to cover also. The Night Ferry could be double-headed but that was unthinkable for the Arrow. Photos of Thomas Hardy during its stay on the Southern are almost non-existent so whether it was used on these or the lesser boat trains is hard to say. Mind you, if it was as "heavily weathered" as your model shows it would only have been let out on the Night Ferry!

May 1953, to cover temporary withdrawal of the MNs. Thomas Hardy went to Stewarts Lane and William Wordsworth to Dover. For years I've been trying to establish if either were used on the Golden Arrow during that short period. I've seen no evidence either were fitted with bolts for the arrows but there were later changes to the Britannia deflectors so I've no proof as yet.

I'd love to see some flags and some golden arrows catching that bit of sunlight on the shiny one while it waits for the ferry to dock. That's when the original Bulleids come alive......

Much of the time spent fixing a leak - but it was only the tears of shame at having been banished to work with the common West Country yokels, I mean engines .

Shome mishtake shurely! City of Wells was the pride of Stewart's Lane from new, tucked up in blankets with a hot water bottle for the night and only taken out in time for a polish before the Golden Arrow service. If it was raining they sent one of those Britannia things out to get wet instead. So cosseted was it (along with running mate Weymouth) it only ran 500,000 miles with BR, by far the lowest mileages of the Bulleid Pacifics. The thought of it working west of Woking, where it might get dirty, sends shivvvvers, at least until the Golden Arrow was electrified and that beastly Salisbury shed had cut down its tender and cruelly told it to work for its keep in its old age........

The early rebuilds (Barnstaple was the first) all had black plates, which looked very smart, as it highlighted the crests on most of the early West Countries. They went into red quite soon in some cases (Yeovil I think in '59, Okehampton and Dartmoor also around then) but with the name and crest now so close together, the red plates rather overpowered the detail of the crest. In those days we "spotters" could often recognise a West Country by its crest before it was close enough to read the name or number. Certainly true of Merchant Navies (but not Battle of Britains obviously). It was not so easy when the plates were red. I still get called upon to identify photos of Bulleids where the number is indistinct, not visible, or appears to lie (more common than you might think!) but the crest, if there is one, gives the game away immediately. My collection of mostly black-plated rebuilds gets favourable comments from many who had thought nameplates were always red.

Thanks!

The E4s travelled around quite widely in their time. Anyone know the BR locoshed allocations of the BR versions 32556 and 32470?

Personally I'll be waiting for a BR(S) green set. BR crimson never looks right to me at 4mm scale. It needs to be heavily toned down for a realistic effect.

What a cynical age we live in! There was very little interest in loco nameplates as objects until the end of steam. Even then they we sold off for a few pounds. Sky-high prices for loco nameplates is a relatively recent phenomenon. No-one would have bothered copying them until recently, other than perhaps the very few famous ones. The Merchant Navy nameplates had three crests made: one for each side of the loco (flags flying in the correct direction) and one for a coffee table given to the shipping line magnate who named the loco. Nearly all of these delicate crests survived with minor touch-ups, let alone the huge cast nameplates. The nameplates were (are) mighty tough objects. There would have been no reason to copy them while they were basically of little more than scrap value. They survived even quite serious accidents, Lewisham (B of B) for one, Hither Green another. In preservation it is different. The plates are now sought-after and easily removed so it makes sense to copy them and sell the originals while the value is high (will they always fetch high prices?). I doubt there are many "fake" nameplates out there, even now.

It's a common mistake to think that most double-headers in the steam era were the result of a need for more power. Except in areas with difficult gradients, they were more often simply a way of getting an out-of-place loco back home. Therefore unusual combinations were really quite common, although often they escaped the camera lens (especially mine!) as they were unexpected and time was lost trying to make out from a distance what was coming rather than getting the camera out and recording it!

Good thing I don't own a model shop. I'd be ordering all the wrong stock. I'd have thought a Limited Edition run of 1000 of a Castle named "Great Western" would have sold out so fast it would never have hit the shops! Especially as Hattons have had it available on pre-order at £96 for months. Yet "Swindon" at £130 seems to be out-selling it. Collectors are a mystery to me! (Or should that be: GWR fans are a mystery to me?)

Ummm. Nothing's ever simple in Pullman World. The New Zealand Line Bournemouth Belle train pack represented the 1960 8-wheel set (Rosemary etc) which replaced the 1948 12-wheeler set (Sunbeam etc) represented by the Alfred the Great pack.

I believe you are right. Also they all appear to have panelling, with no flush side option. Quite a lot of 12 wheelers were plated in the Fifties. Despite the large range of Pullmans now on offer it is quite difficult for modellers of the late 1950s era to find suitable Pullmans, 8 or 12 wheel, off the shelf without at least changing crests.

The first new Bournemouth Belle train pack appeared on eBay today so I guess they've arrived in the warehouse at least.