nightstar.train

The ROSCO that owns them must see a future as they ARE spending money on them. They have been placed in warm storage so will be powered up to run the AC/heating to keep the interiors nice. They'll be moved to stop them seizing up. I think (but I'm not sure) that they'll be towed south from Ely every now and then for a run on the third rail to keep them working. This all costs money. If the ROSCO didn't see a future for them they'd just be cold stored, I.e just dumped in a siding to await scrapping.

To be honest I've never read them either. Just going off of what I read in various magazines. They all say that the Scotrail HSTs will get power doors, so I was assuming that it was needed for PRM-TSI. Can't wait for the HSTs to get here though. Think they'll look great in Scotrail blue.

If you look at this document linked above That wire seems to be something to do with the auto transformer feed. I think it's basically a 25kv bus line to supply the sections. It allows the project to use fewer transformers from the grid, which is a big saving.

I don't model 7mm, but that might tempt me...

The new trains will bring an uplift in capacity, even without ETCS. The EMUs on the Norwich service will add basically two coaches, the space currently occupied by the DVT and loco. For the suburban EMUs they will gain capacity by not having intermediate cabs, and presumably there will be less toilets on a 10 coach EMU than 2x4 car (or maybe not?). it is a bit mad that the relatively new 170s are going, but presumably they are being replaced by the 4 car Electro-diesels, so get an uplift in capacity. I guess that they're either getting very favorable lease rates on the new trains and/or the reduced costs from fleet commonality will make financial sense. Same for the Stanstead Express units.

Back of the envelope maths A Swiss four car FLIRT weighs 120t. So we could expect the UK 12 car version to weigh 360t. Probably less as its to a smaller loading gauge so has a smaller cross section. 13 bogies per train, 26 axles. So axle load of about 14t. That gives it a NR route availability of RA3, which is pretty much go anywhere. This won't be strictly accurate as its an average, the end cars will load a bit less and the middle cars a bit more. The diesel units will be a bit heavier too. Slightly off topic, but I'd be interested to know what other bidders plans were, fleet wise. Presumably they had MoUs with builders too. I doubt we'll ever know, but it'd be interesting. Unless the DafT publish the bids, which I don't think they do, being commercially sensitive.

D'oh! Edited.

I think AGA are going to be saving a lot of money on maintenance by having a uniform fleet. Their fitters only need to train on 2 1/2 types of train (as the electric and electro-diesel Flirt UK units will share an awful lot of parts), and they can also keep fewer spare parts on hand. Of course it might be a full service contract they are having with Bombardier and Stadler, in which case they're eliminating the trains not covered by that, so as to reduce costs. A uniform fleet will lead to oddities, like s 3 car electro-diesel covering for a 153, but the fleet community will make rostering a lot easier, and covering for breakdowns easier. All in all I think it's a very sensible plan.

The Stadler 12 car units are articulated, so presumably a good deal lighter than 4x3car units, so will also require less power to get shifting. If the power is still insufficient I would guess that either NR are planing an upgrade, or there will be a software patch to the controls to limit maximum acceleration to the available power. Maybe I didn't read the article properly, but the Railway Gazette graphic gave 10 X 12 car units in "Airport" configuration, so 120 coaches in total.

Why? If you go for that solution you lose two coach lengths to the engine and the DVT. IF (and it's a big if) you could rebuild the DVT to include some passenger seats you'd maybe only lose 1 coach, or 1 1/2, but that's a lot of seats. These new units will increase passenger capacity at a stroke, without the need for platform lengthening &c. Also they are 12 car articulated units, so only have 13 bogies. Bogies are one of the most expensive parts to maintain, so you're cutting your costs there by about 40%. The Stadlers are also EMUs with distributed traction, so should accelerate a lot better than an engine with 10 coaches, so bringing better journey times and making the "Norwich in 90" easier. Whilst Mk3s are lovely coaches, they are old. At least 30, many getting on for more. 30 years is the design lifespan for things like planes and trains, after that age it gets expensive to keep them going.

According to the railway gazette Stadler is indeed supplying the DMU replacements. Interestingly they're going to be a mix of 4 and 3 car electro diesels. That means some lines (like across the Norfolk broads, and to Newmarket) are going to be getting a massive upgrade from 1 car to 3 car! It's interesting that they're all electro diesel, can't see much running under the wires for a lot of them. But then I guess there is a lot to be said for fleet commonality. Will reduce maintenance costs a lot. I guess that's the same reason that they're getting rid of the nearly new Stanstead Express units.

Anybody know if these are five or nine car sets? The Railway Gazette doesn't say. And potential use? Have GWR decided that shortened HSTs won't do the trick on the Plymouth to Cariff (I think) services and use these instead?

Something something ERMTS something Digital Railway something.

Does anyone know if Virgin plan an increase in Glasgow services? I live near Glasgow, and my dad is in Suffolk, it used to be really handy getting a through train from Glasgow to Peterborough.

Blimey That looks like someone gave my three year old a colouring in picture of a Class 08. Dare someone to paint a model one and run it at a show!

If it's an option being looked at long term I hope they keep some extra Mk3s stored well, otherwise it could be hard to get nearly 50 year old stock that's been sitting in a siding for years going again.

I don't have the magazine to hand, but my understanding from what I read was that, whilst all the platforms are being lengthened two will be substantially longer than the others. I don't have the plan to hand, or relevant train lengths, but it was my understanding that the 8 car Edinburgh trains would use these. If the HSTs are going to be 2+4/5 then I would guess they'll fit the other platforms fine.

It may just be the camera angle, but it looks in those photos that 88001 has had a bump with whatever that yellow and white rolling stock is. Rather embarrassing if that's the case!

This would make sense, although I was wondering if Scotrail will get some ready made buffet coaches rather than converting. Would speed up the introduction of the new trains, although there will be no shortage of TSOs and TFOs to convert. Will the eventual 2+6 sets operate to Glasgow? That'd make for some interesting platform planing at Queen St. They'll be fighting with the 8 car Edinburgh trains for the longest platforms!

Hmmm. I have no idea. What you say sounds like a perfectly valid interpretation of the law, although it may be keeping to the letter rather than the spirit. Bear in mind that power doors are not just for wheelchair users, but those who maybe aren't very strong, or are infirm, or struggling with a pushchair &c. Last I'd heard was that DafT were negotiating with Hitachi to fit Diesel engines to all the GWR fleet of SETs, no doubt setting an even greater altitude record on the price of them. As an aside can anyone think of a recent rolling stock cascade program that has run to the original time scale?

Yeah, I guess with the *ahem* difficulties they're having in getting the knitting up over the GWML the whole timetable for the HSTs move north is slipping. Maybe they've decided to enter a few in service with slam doors whilst a few are kept back to be modified with power doors, then rotate them as the power door sets are released. 1st Jan 2020 is a hard date and the HSTs must have power doors by then. Unless of course the whole thing is abandoned and Scotrail buy some nice new coaches from CAF, with a few more 68s to push pull them. They could even paint them grey with a blue and white stripe ;-).

I was wondering if anyone on here was "in the know" as to how the HSTs that are being cascaded up to Scotland will be formed. Will they have a full buffet car or just a trolley area (I hope the former). And how much first class. Compared to the current 170s I couldn't see them needing more than half a coaches worth, so might a composite coach be reintroduced? Or would they maybe run with one of the four window type buffet cars, with the seats all first class (TRUF?). Can't wait for them to arrive, will be a lovely way to travel up north from Glasgow.

It's interesting to contrast these two engines with "Evening Star". These look good and very dignified with small and appropriate GBRf logos, whereas Evening Star is ruined (IMO) by the massive white GBRf on the body sides. So close, but so far. These are a sort of "and here's what you could've won" alongside it.

Seems sensible. DVTs (or whatever they'll be called) are the most complex of the coaches to build, and so will take longest, and probably have the greatest number of teething issues. This way TPE will get coaches to start their services with ASAP.