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Latest Bachmann times says the 24/1 was progressed to the drawing office

Looks like this to me... http://steverabone.com/sscalewebsite/buildi24.jpg

Based on absolutely no science, fact or even trackside rumour, not even conjecture, gossip or scriptures.. I am 100% convinced it won't be either a class 124 trans-penine or an L&Y dreadnought 4-6-0.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=140 2 days 23 hours and 57 mins.. (did I really spot it after just 2 minutes ?) Queue speculation...

Did I just read a suggestion Drax does a tax write off solely to give a discount to railway modellers ? Rails of Sheffield has a coach for £125 Kernow has 4 coaches for £290 (£72.50 Ea) £83 for a wagon is starting to look reasonable.

What have the last few posts about the County got to do with the GWR 14xx? I love how quickly and easily people get off topic.* * paying homage to this post, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117156-national-collection-in-miniature-dean-goods-class-no-2516/?p=2842392 :-)

See this post...http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107050-draxhornby-biomass-wagons/?p=2165199 Hornby don't own the tooling. My guess if they don't sell, Drax will have a second round of giving them to customers. I'd imagine if the paint scheme changes, another run may be forthcoming, probably in similar conditions. You could of course wait until inflation catches up, Brexit day is in 2019 so not too long to wait :-) Hattons are no stranger for waiting long term to sell an item out, these curved track were in the range for over 38 years after Binns Rd closed, and were still available in 2016 !.. £2 is a lot for an old piece of 70's steel rail.. even today, but they eventually cleared out :-) http://www.hattons.co.uk/26992/Hornby_Dublo_2721HD_Curved_terminal_track_2nd_radius/StockDetail.aspx

Do you have any pictures ? I've got to be honest in my time I've seen dozens of these ivatts, but haven't known them for corrosion. I have seen them with split axles or broken valve gear In general I've found these tanks to be good, others obviously could have different experiences. It's usually the v1/v3 with split axles and valve gear issues (usually the pin breaking off the chassis making the gear try to float) I've seen more often with problems.

Hmm, If I read correctly, they are saying last years numbers were better because they were dumping stock, this years numbers were lower because they've less stock to sell. It might get better because they are getting new stock but it's most likely the new stock won't make the numbers up. Hornby owns a huge amount of land in this market. But they are trying to farm it all, at once, every year, when really they need to go aggressive hunting. Imho they need to start aggressively exploit targeted land, then afterwards move on to the next field and leave the other to fallow and recover. (Slash & burn, not grow potatoes, carrots, onions and on and on). This is what the other players in the industry are doing, including some of the other big boys. We already know last years range was reduced in scope due to market and economic cost conditions, yet it's still massive, but lots of 1 number 1 variants. I'm not sure I agree independents are eating the market, there's really only two new entrants in the mass market, one of which has only got 1 engine on the shelves in the mass market, the other only has 2.. and of those 2 only 1 of them has barely been released. Granted 2 are new versions of old Hornby tools, but it would hardly be argued they were Hornby best sellers. It was also Hornbys own choice to go head to head on duplicating two models (again one of which was a limited availability). The indys are mostly serving a 1 bespoke tool for 1 specific retail outlet market, albeit quite successfully (Rapido -apt for locomotion, djm 14xx for Hattons etc), but it's a market Hornby is not playing in, they can't complain if they aren't in that race. It wouldn't be wise to set the stage to shrink again in 2018, as that's a downward spiral, they need to adapt. Imho, Hornby's legacy range of tools is too big. The market is too small for going head to head on duplication. Making 1 number/livery of 50 legacy tools, and one or two new ones every year isn't cost effective, nor is it market appealing on a grand scale. If independants think they can take on a Hornby tool, but if it's not a mass seller, let them, if it makes economic sense to compete at railroad level, go for it. But otherwise they are better focused on their strength/future than defending weak older tools. (Personally I'd have eaten the loss of the radial and focussed on something else, but I'd have stuck with the 71 but produced 10 (or as what makes sense) variants at once..but then remove fully from the catalog by now)...instead we've got lingering damp 7 versions over three years all discounted and who knows more in 2018, the only rare one.. is the exclusive limited edition, but why only 1 exclusive edition - afterall DJ had 7, Hornby could have killed this off (sorry Dave). Ironically, it's the DJ one that poses the longer term threat, and has a perceived rarity value too ! Imho Hornby lost the radial to Oxford on day 1, having been beaten on price and wide variation.. Oxford quite definitely hunted this market. Instead imho they would do better to focus on their manufacturing strengths, product range to appeal to the same customers of the independents. Bachmann are doing very well with limited editions of existing tools supplied to specific retailers, and note they are being very careful in what they run.. lots of mass appeal models (47's mostly) but others. They (and for that matter Heljan too) are not also averse to being an OEM for a retailer exclusive, taking on indy's. Perhaps what Hornby could do is select a tool, and approach various shops with options of add-ons, alternate numbers of different liveries to planned runs. If Hornby approached 6 shops with six different exclusive different works numbers of the Peckett std livery in small exclusive runs it would cause panic in the hobby for demand right now and Hornby would find their arm bitten off...and they still sell the main range versions announced in the same livery. if they do a 1968 theme black 5 (2018 is 50 years) they could offer 6-7 limited production runs of different 1968 fives, to different exclusive shops, and still offer some main range ones. Whilst Hornby have done 44871/781 there's oodles more they could do..44806/45110/34/212/31/90/305/18/388/407/444 all of which were moderate celebrities in August 1968. Having a dozen 1968 Black fives at runs of 250 stands a better chance of clearing warehouse at Hornby than 1 number of 3000. Following this they then agree to rest the Black five for a few years, in 2019 pick another legacy tool to repeat the exercise in 2019... It's this approach that the Indys are taking with their tools.. 10x J94's, 10x 14xx liveries etc. Imho Hornby need to create a bit of feast or famine when it comes to availability, but they do need to be selective (the Peckett is one case where they own the entire pure industrial market right now, and feast/famine applies to the whole market on a per livery basis in this instance), and I believe their approach currently is correct, the sell out nature shows this, but if others enter down the road, this approach should change too. As a customer I'm sat waiting patiently with my wallet for another two Merchant Navies to be announced, Hornby has sunk six figures into this tool and produced 4 variants... they have a huge cost.. I have spare cash.. where is the other 10 variants (inc limited quantity exclusives ) they could have produced in 2017, stolen the market and cleared my wallet and be sitting in Hornbys accounts for a rosier future ? Instead I'm prepaying Bulleid diesels whilst I wait. More efficient manufacturing, less wide range, but focussed to specific retailers whom get to cherry pick some "good numbers" whilst still serving the wider market with a generic. Hornby's range is vast, but doing all toolings every year isn't effective, nor does it give any rarity value as it's never "gone from the range". Offering some limited numbers in addition to standard range numbers also gives the retailers willing to take a risk, an advantage in not seeing 200 other retailers all dumping stock of the same number, agreeing to move on to a different tool and giving the other a rest creates rarity and certainty. Hornby gets more revenue from existing toolset without needing ever increasing capex every year.

Ships are about prestige overseas. We aren't empiracal any more. There's no need for a mass navy beyond basics. War today is about IT, small technology groups. North Korea isn't coming our way by sea, neither will we ever be taking North Korean territory. However North Korean hackers could shut down all aspects of our lives from anywhere. Additionally our world is now managed by £200mn IT data centres scattered around the country, a few small teams with an RPG could take out the hardware that wasn't affected by a software hack very easily. Then we are back to sticks and stones to fight with, as the computer won't say "no", it won't be able to say anything. For some reason, even with the NHS hack, our government still hasn't got any tools to defend data centres controlling billions of dollars of business and indeed our lives, nor any tools to really stop a government sponsored hack that really could shut us down. Your iPad relies on vast rooms of thousands of servers to give you that web page.. hack an iPad... there billions more to go. Destroy a data centre millions of users are offline... destroy the DR site for that data centre,, those millions are offline permanently... the only security they have today is a Minimum wage security guard and his signing in book. What good is 13 frigates, or 1300 if the navies data centre was taken out by a UPS truck delivering a 50kg-100kg IBM server in a box from China that turned out to be something more sinister ? People believe IT is secur, but the hardware is just as vulnerable (and more densely concentrated) than as the software... eggs.. 1 basket comes to mind, yet were more focussed on the infection of those eggs (even then we don't have an answer to it)... building a ship certainly won't contain the threat. No one cares about these places security, beyond basic theft protection, yet our lives depend on them. Naval logistics... ships like planes can be hired.

Something to go with last years exhibition coach. Although I got one, I was never quite sure what I could do with it, now you can put it with a vga and leave them both in a siding for a year and await a third to add and maybe figure it out.

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Thanks I was trying :-) Unfortunately I doubt this will be the last time a thread drifts off topic. Indeed if it were, forums worldwide would cease to exist through staleness and dull content. I for one am not over inspired by Deans goods class, but the last dozen posts have been the most interesting to read in this topic, at least since the knives were withdrawn over the quality /accuracy of the samples.

The location of both the models promoter and the prototype LNER locos being discussed have a lot in common :-)

I don't think making wooden coaches was the LNERs problem, after all they owned two sources of teak plantations in Burma, which British Railways inherited in 1948. The NER had plans for electrification, and built EE1 in 1921 for the purpose of York -Newcastle and maybe Edinburgh services, in this instance it would appear Gresley took the easy route and stuck with steam, but that EE1 survived 29years unused until 1950, but not as a preserved loco, suggests some people thought it's future potential was greater.

I like this video I found in YouTube of 76069 running with a BR1f... made me do one like it myself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfvgX92DAeI I took Bachmanns 76069 with its BR1B late crest, and swapped with with my spare 2nd 73110 with it's 1f. 73110 will become 73156.

The only caution is I remember Replica introducing them back in the mid90's. At the time they were the the mutts nuts, streeets ahead of Mainline offering and same price as Lima's contemporaries. Replica offered 45128, 45106 and an unnumbered variant. Whilst 45106 was ambitious as it was repainted and intended to replace D200 as BR's celebrity loco, it was short lived when it caught fire.. non of the models seemed the fly from the shelves, even despite the unnumbered ones being offered with painted name rub on transfers. Back onto prototype, ixion, whilst being first to the mainline didn't attract many sell out Railtours and 45112 was the same. As Peaks ended their careers it was no where near the bang that proceeded the 50's or the cult following of the 40's. Even Bachmanns 46's were two a plenty. Peaks aren't as popular as people make them out to be and with limited livery options for this variant there's not a lot to go off.

T Paint isn't single sided nor do they use Dulux one coat.. If you take off a layer of paint, there's the exposed side, the unexposed side (on either bare metal, undercoat or another livery) and there is the core in the middle. I have a chunk of paint off a 504 EMU at home, it's paint is nearly 5mm thick from surface yellow to aluminium metal...30 years of paint on top of paint, in between is several layers of yellow, green and an undercoat maroon... only 3 liveries) like the rings of a tree, if you look sideways you'll find one of several coats that has been applied that is neither influenced by the earlier livery or exposed to the elements of the exposed side. I have similar from several other classes too, but not a Duchess. But I'd wager that 46229's paint wasn't rubbed down to bare metal from BR days until its Tyseley overhaul, and maybe the boiler bands still haven't as they wouldn't be reused, there could be a good 5mm of paint, maybe more on those too, and in this case they would all be Maroon, way back to the 50's One extreme I have is a 3 x6 inch chunk of paint off a pkp ty52... it's graphite black end to end, back to front and through the core... you'd think it had never been repainted.. but what it isn't is matt black, it's got a sheen from silver particles mixed into the paint, which you'd never notice in a camera. May I reccomend another source, look at the rear of any of the original nameplates (from any marroon class member) that hasn't been restored, often these have spills, rubs or wet paint that got stuck on them, and being on the rear are less likely to have been exposed. This maybe a nice source of validation too... http://www.nwrail.org.uk/rc-46229-nrm-150713-1.jpg The original cab side was removed, and saved for a reason, clearly here is several layers of paint but you don't start with the top most layer that is immediately visible, the best outcome would be maroon, undercoat with more maroon underneath that.. which means you've penetrated the preservation era layers and have clear separation between the two. (It's undercoat in 1976 is white), so easy to spot.

I'm surprised 6229 is so readily discarded by people on here. Apart from one weekend with temporary paint, it's been maroon since the 1960's. I'd wager it's last repaint as it entered preservation used BR maroon paint, and that its subsequent overhaul in the 1980's was paint matched, and it's overhaul at tyseley seemed to be subject of some Herculean efforts on paint matching. If it's off, it's only marginal to the point of being unnoticeable at very best. I'm sure during its overhauls they have been able to access shavings of old paint under layers, they recently found apple green on the wheels of 60008 during its cosmetic overhaul. Don't forget the paint samples matched too, from the NRM, will be from original paint, and whilst there could be some fading, again this would be minimal, after all the samples would be in dark rooms of the workshop, not sitting outside day after day. Personally I think this is a good effort by Hornby. Ps.. I've always liked this colour image of two Duchesses at Crewe, regardless what you think of sun, shade, exposure, name of the painter or the crewe works paint mixer... these two duchesses are indisputably two different shades of maroon, even if one is dirtier than the other. http://www.davidheyscollection.com/USERIMAGES/00-a-rs-greenwood-46254-crewe-1.jpg

Tons of replica class 45/1's and early class 46's out there. Just carefully remove the buffer beams off the body and put it in the chassis or get kit buffer beam. Dunno if anyone's tried adding a class 44 chassis to the replica 45 body, but 44's show up cheap enough.

Whoa ! This is getting a little personal and insulting, with nothing to do with the T3. Thanks but no thanks, at this point I'm taking my ball away. I'll leave you to it in this thread from this point, but I'm still not prepared to criticise the NRM for this disposal, even if I'm swimming upstream but draw the line at taking rocks too.

I think I read somewhere, the new chassis version won't work with electronic track-cleaners ? (Relco, Gaugemaster etc). I've stayed with my older Ivatts, they work fine, and I've 4 for the price of one new one. (£30-40 vs £110-130) The only difference with the older ones, is the very early ones (41242/41313 etc) had silver tyres rather than darkened ones, but I just bought slightly newer ones and swapped the chassis's. I was rather hoping they do a new 84xxx body to go on that new chassis myself.

Interesting that every example of headcodes so far is either featuring a GWloco or line. Maybe when this pass through of headcodes is done, we should do SR, followed by LMS and then LNER ? SR should be an interesting array of codes !

I've seen a lot of Pre-DCC Roco kit coming up cheap in the last few months, all Excellant runners, same tooling as used today, just in the £40-75 bracket..bargain. Just picked up a CSD T699 for £75, and that's a recent tooling, £150 new, even at today's brexit dropping currency that's not a bad deal.