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I never made reference to anything illegal or fake, but my interpretation of Crosland’s post may have been trying to suggest, claim or insinuate a slur about me, to which I am asking him to confirm if that’s what he was intending to do... as such a claim would need evidence in which to defend it. His silence is deafening, but unsurprising. I don’t really care but as the goal was open I thought i’d Challenge it any way :-) time to move on. Note smily.

It’s not out yet. But the two previous releases R3323 / R3299 had a fixed draw bar, plug to the tender and fittings in the tender to add a speaker and DCC chip to the DCC socket. Here’s my R3299 awaiting a place in the queue for renumbering (i’m Thinking 45025), Although it has several holes, you’d need to physically cut the drawbar as it would be pushing under the wiring cable, probably easier to make your own.

Reputation is perception, taking off the rose tinted hobby glasses, and put on a raw business head..Oxford makes money, Hornby loses money. Oxford has clear strategy, Hornby’s is at best ambiguous, at worse Extremely diverse. Oxfords expertise is being given the opportunity to influence a much larger company that’s struggling. I kind of feel Hornby is fighting too many wars on to many fronts at the same time. If separating a multilayered company into several divisions of excellence and failure.. merging the successful super detail toolings to a successful company with its own production facilities is putting strong with the strong, and serves a known specialist market, and steers away from the high street market that is less interest in detail, price sensitive, misunderstood but is the only brand name they know. Same again for Corgi, which Oxford has been competing aggressively and successfully, makes sense to combine. Putting Hornby’s name, with a cheaper range to a high street market that is highly competitive and price sensitive, but is the strongest name for the range in the high street.. your again putting strong with the strong... here i’d See Hornby, Scalectrix, Humbrol, Airfix etc. Then weaker brands can either be paired down or sold off... (there’s nothing compelling the high street brand not to include overseas HO toolings in that high street range too if they were cheap enough.. think like atlas editions, indeed it may even be a selling point, remember HO/OO means nothing to John Doe). If their was a higher investor, with interests held in both companies, moving assets around centres of excellence is a good way to restructure and benefit from both companies strengths and reducing risk, and ultimately the bottom line for the investor. Put it another way, if simply put, Hornby eats Oxford, how does 2 deans goods, radials, mk3’s even motorrails add value, profitability, sales and efficiency to Hornby? Oxford is doing nicely, so it doesn’t need to sell up or give their IP away cheaply. The Oxford name, nor is its customer list isn’t of value to Hornby, so all that remains is a factory and a competing range of model vehicles... and whilst that’s very useful, it doesn’t solve the business and financial problems, indeed it adds more debt to the pile. The alternative, is the management moves house from Oxford to a bigger home needing renovation at Hornby, but renovations aren’t cheap and Oxfords profits won’t cover it, which means pairing Oxford down or selling it off...which just doesn’t make sense... so there must be bigger money than Oxfords here, what’s been bought here for Hornby is skill and expertise, and maybe a factory but what is that price ? -50/50 split ? Finally food for thought, If Hornby did acquire a factory, and it ramped up.. that would release a lot of spare manufacturing capacity in China with the others used today.. which could bring even more competition, or lowered manufacturing pricing which reduces the benefits you just gained.

I’m surprised everyone thinks Oxford rail will dissapear in this relationship. Its Oxfords CEO Coming to Hornby, not vice versa. Oxfords tip toe into OO, has to me been a slow drawn out process, but gazing from a higher view, setting up an enterprise and showing its successful intervention into a new market is a good way to impress an outside investor, who thinks you’ve got potential...regardless what you think of the product, they have demonstrated it, even if the Mk3’s seem to me to have been stalling for time..this now makes sense. I only saw reference to Technical expertise and Marketing/sales consultant roles coming to Hornby, I didn’t see business strategists or finance coming to a company that has both a good market, good products but a poor financial record and business strategy. If I wanted to take some assets from a company to my own, the two hires I need are the guys who knows what sells, and the guy who knows what exists. If I wanted to turn the company around, I need financial advisors and strategists to sweat what assets I have in the most financially efficient way...but that’s not what I saw. I could perhaps suggest, maybe those experts could identify the successful and detailed toolings and move them to Oxford as a brand for collectors, together with Corgi perhaps, let Oxford focus on these (mostly non-Railroad toolings since 2000) Then Hornby & Scalectrix, with its well known high street brands could focus on the Railroad market, (older Hornby, Lima, airfix ranges) plus track and accessory ranges for which it’s been known for generations... a much smaller but focussed company using its brand name where it’s known most, the high street, mass market, with a much lower cost base, asset range and able to get a reliable source of production. I would suspect Other manufacturers could be concerned by this announcement, similarly if restructured correctly, both companies could become takeover targets, by other overseas Railway modelling interests. Minnows generally don’t eat Whales, unless the minnow has an even bigger whale to protect it. I think Oxford may be the bigger winner here, if not why would they be interested ? And it’s not as if they need to sell out, and helping a competitor isn’t normal.

That or maybe Oxford might considerably boost its super detailed range of newer Hornby assets (the recent toolings), take corgi, then cut Hornby's brand name from the collectors market and focus it loose back to its traditional roots of Toy trains and racing cars for the retail market perhaps ? 7 weeks to Warley, be interesting to see what the 2019 range looks like, might be too soon for visible changes, but a any new delay, or no news, on any announcements would be a sign in itself. The two appointments are business development and product specialist, didn't see anything about financial advisors and strategy.

Maybe Hornby might have found itself a new factory. I wonder which dean goods and radial will end up in railroad ? I knew this was going to be interesting, but now it’s really interesting. paint, scalectrix and the Oxford rail brand all suddenly look odd ones out if merged. I reckon corgi may move.

Off memory, with gaps... 44666 44668 44694 44781 44871 44875 44908 44932 45010 45156 45157 45190 45293 45455 45458 45377 5000 5036 5055 5156 To be released : 45116 45274 That’s before the weathered ones, plus railroad and older ones., so that’s 22 to start with..admittedly that’s only 3% of the fleet and you can’t have enough black 5’s. Though it would be nice to see some preserved ones, and more 1968 ones, even a cheeky preserved one, on the new tooling. 44806/932 looked nice in Green :-)

Was that a statement your trying to make ?

It doesn't always work like that though.I might be comfortable today, but my mis-spent youth included working on two Uk model railway production lines, before the days of China, but also other monotonous jobs including loading car tyres in trucks, flipping burgers, mixing ceramic dust, frozen food factories, repairing bowling balls, fire eating juggling and even a Butlins bar man, many of these jobs have left this shore. All are mundane and boring,(juggling and fire eating across America excepted), but as a hard up student pay important money that's lacking and give valuable life experience. Did they pay what they are worth ?... well you have a choice..take it or leave it, knowing leave it means others will replace you and no one will miss you. Take it means the only way to earn more is increasing hours worked. Working a hitec China production line, making tech products for well known Global electronics companies, under video surveillance, strip searches, managed accommodation, tight contracts and scrutinised working hours, or having freedom to open windows, walk around at will, chose your own accommodation and have daily variation on a model railway production line.. the environment is much better, However, Business only works if they find a source willing to to make something for less than they can find someone to sell it to. We can wax lyrical about the price we pay for models, but even if you volunteered an extra £20, the person building it won't get it.., but model railway factory conditions are a long way from the worst over there, you should consider offering more for your phone, dvds, camera, kettles, microwaves, clothes, car spares than your model train. The LRC factory looks like luxury, compared to some places in the region and I'll guess the pay isn't that bad either, even if push fitting bits of plastic or removing flash isn't the most exciting job on earth, it's probably better than working a production line making pastry dumplings by hand !

If that's right, I suspect they managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory there. They did that a year or so back with the K1.. roll on 2017, they are still £89 in some outlets, even if 62006 is now offered in a box with bizarre wagons at double the price, I wonder if that set has a price increase? , though I guess the value add it now brings is a "sell by date". But I can't help thinking Hornby maybe just gave us its own "Expiration date". We could find a slightly unfair situation, where years old stock ends up stagnant in a Hornby warehouse, gets dispatched to retailers with a 24 month sell by date. I suspect as modellers many of us are too price savvy for these increases, and retailers aren't your usual corner shop types they will respond intelligently to the t&c changes, knowing what's inevitably going to happen when cash flow gets tight n Margate ? Perhaps it's aimed at the retail/concession customers who maybe are less so and hoping they suck this up or maybe there's another strategy we don't yet know ?

Dare I suggest it's been at the risk of duplicating each other's models, putting new lipstick on old pigs, and repition of ranges year on year , the very thing that is becoming common in the UK. To quote Piko's main man..(3 years ago)... https://www.ttnut.com/interview-with-boss-of-piko-t2339.html But also another warning, that several people have referred to for many manufacturers.. Of course one way to mitigate is to change t&cs relating to Quality control by imposing limitations at the retailer instead.

Grafting a model train should be a criminal offence. That looks absolutely awful. What a fantastic job, if only the kid that did it in real life knew :-) Excellent, indeed its brilliant.

How many of these are down to a single supplier publishing links on Ali-baba that "shine"'s out, I wonder.That could be risky for several budding enterprises should a hiccup, backlog, price rise or several mixed demands converge suddenly. Putting up the money, and working on it yourself are very different things, one you can influence, the other possibly much less, especially if you do it all remote. I suspect many of these new bold ventures are balancing on the same single column waiting for an earthquake. What would happen if one of the big boys buys that plant and cut off several of their customer facing competitors at the roots in one go or gives them an exclusive contract they can't refuse ? (That's what I'd be doing if I worked for a major facing this new threat). Secrecy doesn't seem to be the priority, unless one "model railway engineer" in china has a fetish for detailed pictures outside his day job, he has put very detailed images of one unannounced model online, on a page that names him and his Chinese employer (not the one eluded to above)...unless of course it was to be found, but I'll not be outing him or his employer !! Of course tools can grow wings, or not as they exit a window or disappear in a van. Caution isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if several people over here are all dialling the same number over there creating a bubble of demand at the same time the economy and the currency is kind of so/so or if that supplier feels a little more confident that they can change the rules a little bit in their favour mid way into the game. If Dave's holding back, I wouldn't blame him, it looks all nice in the shop window but suspect behind the scenes there's some debauchery going on, it's business after all, if your not looking someone will steal your lunch, then again you can sit and wait for them to choke too.

If Hornby followed Piko principle, then we'd have very heavy modern locos with traction tyres, that will run like a dream, pull anything you like and no complaints about build quality, performance and pick ups. Piko is very competitively priced too...and in tiny packaging. Even diehard German fans are accepting Piko has redefined the market for each new prototype its produced, the new BR103 has reduced the older Roco ones to less than £40 second hand, from a £250 sale,as the Piko one is £120 new.., same story for the v200, BR110 and the new 2017 BR143... it's knocking the castle walls down of the establishment and putting the over priced Roco, Fleischmann and Trix examples in the same scrap bins Piko used to sit in the 1980's. http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=artikel&vw_id=23380 (German link comparing here to the Roco one) https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?010,7784152,7784152#msg-7784152 Whilst you can say it's unfair to compare a 90's tooling to a 2017 one, consider that's still sold, at a very high price new, 274 Euro for Roco vs 164 Euro Piko, both are at the same standard, as someone wanting a BR 112 which one are you going to chose, and the second hand market reflects that, the Roco one is selling for less than the Piko one on ebay..its dumped. What Piko has done, is made better quality, cheaper, and reinvigorated interest that brings newer blood into the hobby at the same time. Their hobby range is very cheap (as low as £50) and very acceptable too... in Germany a Taurus at this price was unthinkable a few years ago, in a market who's entry level was way three times higher. If Piko are making the class 87, I'd be very excited, if not, it's an opportunity missed... the BR143 is 169 Euro (I bought mine for £125), and want to compare it to the class 87 With its RRP of £169 but my gut feel looking at the pictures, though, is it's probably not. I know UK modellers resent tyres, but that's only because they remember the millimetre thick elastic bands stuck without thought to a wheel used in the 1970's, not the fine grain detailed ones sat flush to grooved all wheel pickups used in Europe today. Ironically whilst U.K. Modelling is getting more expensive towards legacy European pricing, Piko is making European modelling magnitudes cheaper than its ever been, I'm not sure how the bastions of Roco,Fleischmann and Trix will respond, but right now they are starting to look old and expensive... Whilst the U.K. Market is healthy and open to higher prices, inevitably there is alesson that could still yet be learnt in the U.K... is Hornby a Piko or a Roco in the eyes of the customers, and is that vision stuck in the 90's or 2010's ?, even if it may be more clear on the factory floor.

We might want Bullied stock, but if it arrived at a £60 price tag, how many of us would be making two or three 6-8 coach rakes in different liveries at around £2000 ? Bachmann maybe old, but I bought 4 for £30, and two packets of flush glaze did the lot for another £6, I haven't paid more than £15 for any of mine, most around £10, meaning I can achieve the 3x 6-8 coach rakes for around £200.. if Hornby did do them, it doubt would change the 2nd high price upwards, the markets swamped with them, which will drag the high end price down.

So for the retailer.. Buy less, check it thoroughly on delivery, if there's a fault send it back. After month 10.. dump it off your shelves pdq as month 13 it's second hand. I wonder what happens if mazak rot sets in on month 25? My interpretation is it's 12 months from sale by Hornby to the shop, and 12 months from that date to the consumer... so 1st October 2017 models have to be sold as new with warranty by 30th September 2018, to give a customer warranty to 29th September 2019. So if a model supplied on Oct 1st 2017 is still on the shelf on Oct 1st 2018... it's no longer "new" with warranty... it's as good as second hand without warranty. Retailers need to become high turnover carpet baggers, or take on liability or just buy to what they can sell in a year. Of course if stock at Hornby doesn't sell out, order more a few weeks before the 12mth is up, and return the old ones as faulty...that resets your clock. Looking at several websites, there's Hornby guff out there that's years old still available as new. If I were still retailing new stock, I'd be thinking long and hard about stocking anything other than easy sell bargains or new toolings.. all that other stuff maybe take stock to order. Whilst I see Hornby's policy is aimed at reducing risk of returns of second hand or old stock from years ago, I suspect it could harm new sales if retailers decided to be more cautious about ordering ever increasingly higher priced run of the mill repeat stock to avoid being left with the risk if still having it one year on. The point they might be missing is why does a retailer still have new stock, several years after release still stuck on their shelves unsold in the first place ?

Agreed, it's on a whole new chassis too, that's more detailed than the Railroad 9f, now if they put it with the super detailed clan/Britannia tender...

I've got admit being a little perplexed at an aging £155 M7, next to the brand new £110 SECR H in the same year.

Nine months in and I'm still happy with mine, no issues at all. 1366 class is all ok too.

D8000 has been 1. done (Dublo, 1st anniversary), 2. done (wrenn), 3. done (30th anniversary Lima ltd Ed), 4. done ( 50th NRM Bachmann) 5. and still being done (NRM Bachmann gloss) again though. And each time it's no different, maybe 20050 in Blue for a change ?, I remember seeing it in Doncaster Works just after it had been preserved, but before any work was done on it and recall being confused as to why a loco in working condition, for a fleet not being withdrawn was being preserved.. though I was also puzzled at 50011 withdrawn at Crewe a few years later, especially when considering 50041 being repaired at Doncaster just 2 years earlier, strange days and decisions back then, no one expect 50041 to come out alive, no one expect 50011 to go in alive).

I forgot the 86/5's I remember Hornby released it, just after BR renumbered it 86602 but there were others to.. (503/4 come to mind). Later they went to distribution, so it'd suggest it was a mistake, as many ran unbranded for a while too. I didn't know about 673 either, but I just turned up 37104 also. (I seem to have memory of an 08 too). I'm not sure why General was selected for 149, I understood it's trials was for China clay,which seems to me the domain of Aggregates, yet always seem to have Distribution 37's on it. I can only guess it's a "we haven't done a loco in General yet" or "no sector wants to own 149" experiment, that failed anyway, 8/15/19's liveries were more for celebrity appeal. I did see 50's on engineers stuff towards the end (I have a picture of 50041 in Manchester Piccadilly on a civil engineers train above my layout), and have pictures of 50008/15 in Longsight depot one evening (got to cab them too), but I recall this being massively unusual, hence why I was where butter wouldn't normally get. Either way, there wasn't many of them, I suspect General was too vague, and as a Railfreight was a profit centre, engineering stuff was a cost they wouldn't want (there was not yet a "railtrack" customer).

Six. Aggregates (Construction) Coal Petroleum Distribution Metals General Your choice for general is limited (50149) but it was none the less one of the rounded design groups original proposed sector liveries, but wasn't adopted and (via initial drab grey), turned into Dutch livery instead, presumably because the tasty new livery was meant to be future looking and including your old knackers used for engineering stuff was counter to this plan, and separate to railfreights business. RfD later evolved to represent European distribution, with the blue roof in addition. However the 31 isn't what comes to most people's minds, when it comes to Railfreight, they were starting to be a little long in the tooth at this point, think of a 31, redstripe railfreight & Dutch wore much better. 33/37/47/56/58/60 were the champions of rail freight sectorisation liveries.

In the older days the chassis used to contain lead, but that probably explains why Railway modellers are more extreme and of odd temperament with later age. maybe use Brass.. but it aint cheap.

I'm not sure there's that much they can offer ? 08, Choice of 31, Railroad 37, Railroad 47, 50149, 56, Railroad 58, 60, 87, Railroad 90 ? Of that lot, 08s were mundane, 31's weren't the most awe inspiring ambassadors of this livery and even then not many variations (Distribution/Coal/Petroleum/Construction), 50149 is already done, class 60's didn't exist in 1987, 90's were brand new and Intercity. Doing Railroad 37/47's is probably risky given how extensively this period was covered by Lima loco's that are still swilling about in the 2nd hand model railway ocean, not to mention the dozens of newer offerings by Bachmann, Heljan and ViTrains out there. The locos at the October 1987 unveiling at Ripple Lane, and the models made in the same liveries have all been done and the toolings used in 1987 are still the same in 2017 for the 37/47/58 only the 08 and 56 are newer: 08834 Distribution - Bachmann 37673 Distribution - Bachmann 37892 Petroleum - Lima 47079 Metals - Lima 56001 Construction - Dapol 58050 Coal - Hornby The best they could offer is a mix of Railroad/Main range models which would be confusing and difficult to sell at best, massively criticised at worst. Maybe another option would be the railfreight odd ball collection : 47901 RfA, 50149 RfGeneral, 58050 RfCoal, 87101 RfD To me, the only way I could see this work, is for a retailer to have commissioned a collection of cross manufacturer models into a single set, but again I think this would be hard concept to sell.