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Hmm I doubt we’ll see manufacturing will ever return from China, indeed quite the opposite. Chinese businesses love a bargain, especially floundering companies with strong names sold in fire sales. What we might see, is the prices rising to a point where some manufacturers fail.then the Chinese factories buy the toolings for a song, and start out reproducing the older models at Chinese cost prices. A £160 Loco could feasibly turn up by an unknown Chinese manufacturer with a new website sold for £50 including delivery they make margin, we get cheap, no middle men, no catalogs, limited marketing, use of ebay etc. No nostalgia. What we won’t see is innovation, no new tools, no new models, and possibly increments errors due to knowledge gap creeping in (wrong numbers/names perhaps).. but we will get cheap. It’s happening already at the smaller end.. there any number of Chinese businesses on ebay selling generic railway signals, lights, scenery, model cars, stations etc, much of it costs peanuts and is very acceptable. We just saw the Atlas HO gauge BR class 81 appear in Hong Kong.. Why buy 6 Preiser figures for £12 when you can buy 100 painted figures for £1.50 inc pp on ebay ? Electronics has gone this way already, so has oodles of other generic unbranded household goods, Rover did too..

I always find it amazing that by reading a few newspapers people can always come to the conclusion that country x or y is doomed to fail, yet the problem with these prophecy’s is the end date is always being extended, usually inline with falling sales and a need to address it, or by politicians pointing elsewhere to offset our own bad news. It’s easy to say the end of someone else’s world is coming, but rarely look at their own , let alone be brave enough to say the end of someones world isn’t imminent after all. Just because someone’s culture doesn’t match our own doesn’t mean it’s doomed to fail, different cultures survive because they adapt to their local conditions, not to our conditions. I just flew to Dublin today (actually to the railway works on business) just for the day and picked up the UK paper out bound, and the local Irish paper on the return.. same story, same hysteria two opposite angles.. both sides selling papers with stories panicking the populace about borders, brexit and the perils of no deal.. each paper blaming the other party and saying their own politicians need to react to it. Bottom line.. same rubbish, different paper, same hysteria, different country, it’s almost as if the same media org wrote both stories and simply did a find/replace swap...it’s not as if the media would possibly do that.. would they, really, nah...., next thing we might even suggest media hype actually creates stories by provoking extreme reactions, and causes some of the events that occur..all in the name of selling papers.

Hmm, I thought that Hornby were honouring pre-order prices ? That’s a bit naughty to creep up the price on pre-orders. I ordered mine from the Hornby website, with the collectors club 10% discount, and usually save a year on price rises too as the order price is honoured. However with the demise of the discount and the dishonouring of prices by retailers, there’s little point preordering at all now, loyalty does after all work both ways.

Is the mag known for non-Hornby products in? The picture of the schools, with 3 marks 1’s and Hornby tanks has a 2 car emu in the background that really doesn’t look like a 2bil, maybe a class 207 or an emu with half yellow panel in green.

Oxford rail’s website lists an RRP of £34.95 http://www.oxfordrail.com/ORalljan17.pdf Due for release Q4. It does say in the catalog that the next price list is due in October. For that reason, I got my pre-order in, as lights or no lights, I don’t think we will see this price again. If it turns out to be a dud, or if the price isn’t honoured, you can always cancel, but from what I’ve seen, it looks pretty good, and the price/quality ratio is very good.

Is it not LUL red ?Maybe look for bus paint ? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Stagecoach_East_London_bus_LT239_%28LTZ_1239%29%2C_Regent_Street_Bus_Cavalcade_%281%29_%28cropped%29.jpg You can see the difference between maroon of the 37 and the red of 4TC, though I think WCRC use a different shade on their diesels to their coaches.

You have a nice garden. Must have cost you a few bob to get a Duchess in it. :-)

I think the thing that stops a new terrier being made, is the market is so definitely diluted with older terriers. This model has been done done done and twice baked, pan-fried and done again. There are 110 terriers in ebay tonight, 131 sold in the last 60 days, with the average price being around £50. (Compared to 60 J94’s including the DJ one new, 86 sold... the markets nearly half the size and that’s with 3 versions out there). Their success is the collectibility of them, one could have 30+ different numbers and liveries, and paid approx £1000 for the fun of it, spread over 25 years, even if two years ago Whitechapel and Sutton were £35, the last two have tripled that price and I suspect that will be the end of them. Any new terrier, will be £100+ If you’ve bought the last 30, are you going to dump the lot and buy 10 new ones (as the common theme of new commissions is 10 variations at once), or buy 1 or 2 of the new ones, or just say enough’s enough and stick with a nice collection of old terriers ? Either way ebay will put 101 dalmations to shame with all these terriers swamping the market, collectors with gaps will fill their ranks and further risk the success of the new one. If anyone other than a Hornby made it, they could find Hornby rediscovers their ability to make them for £35 again, just like the 14xx. What I think would happen is many collectors will cash out, and just buy 1 or 2, it’s success wouldn’t be repeated. The safer route is a new prototype, and right now industrials are in vogue..., needs to be preserved and weirder the better... Haydock Founderies Bellerophon (and it’s 5 sisters) would be my obscure vote.. especially as two of them doubleheaded used to work passenger services over the L&Y :-), this ones been all over the country and had 3 liveries just in preservation. But a more sensible one would be an Avonside 0-6-0t , Manning Wardle 0-6-0T, Hudswell Clarke (MSC canal tank) or an RSH 0-4-0ST, given their prevalence in preservation. But could the Andrew Barclay chassis be used for an Andrew Barclay Crane Tank...3 Preserved in the UK, maybe others overseas, quite a number of prototypes.. now that would be different ? http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/images/10012/10012_1.jpg http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v54/p2138763583-3.jpg

Oh so slap me with a wet kipper, I was out by 2c, I guess the difference between a bottom of 1.23 and 2.10 vs 2.12 makes all the difference in the world when it comes to prices ? Quite, just like this one... Greece was “world leader” some 3000 years ago, comparing one of the worlds biggest economies of the 21st century, rapidly falling down the global league tables, to Greece is somewhat demeaning to Greece. They still have the euro, it’s still at its strongest against the pound than its currency ever been has since its introduction, baring occasion even worse crashes where the pound fell. Maybe the next comparison to defend the UKs rapid decline on the global scale is to compare us to up and coming countries like Zimbabwe. Or instead why not look at Poland, constant growth, no recession, constant construction, high employment and increasing wages, increasing spending power, yes the government isn’t popular, but they come and go, at least there’s tends to be more stable even if they aren’t the most popular. Try comparing the Uk to it’s Peers, US, Japan, Germany.... the UK standard of living, spending power, currency strength is all failing, regardless employment..just because everyone here has a job doesn’t mean it’s a well paid job...and it doesn’t stop inflation either. The currency is the nations share price, if its its heading south, that’s usually because the country’s heading south too... people are taking their money out, and there’s a lot of pounds out there still waiting to be sold as less people willing to buy. Asians think we’re mad, Europeans are against us, Americans and Aussies smell bargains. Bottom, line bring this back to topic.. if high inflation, high employment, low pound, raising interest rates, increased debt, falling gdp, low salaries, Quantitive easing, falling tax receipts, increased taxation, reduced benefits, airlines failing due to low seat sales, factories closing due to lack of orders, Brexit are all so good for the country, why is everyone whinging about the price of model railways, if were all so flush with cash surely we can all afford double, triple or quadruple our current orders - what’s stopping everyone..??? Oh.. maybe it’s because “the good times we are living in” are coming to an end. Anyway we should get back to topic.

10 years is such a long time ago.I paid £180 all inc, for flights to NYC for a weekend, spending $2.12 for £1. I don’t think this country will ever recover from the crash of 2007, Brexit vote was a second helping, and i’m Sure there’s a third to come. The rest of the world is doing fine, just our lonely island sulking.

I know, wasn’t that the one that came out weathered for Kernow ? Please don’t tell me some hit the streets pristine.. i’ll Have to get dressed and go door to door looking for one.

Not just that, my Colletts/Hawksworth/Maunsell/Stainers passengers are all starving hungry.When they said cut backs at Hornby I didn’t think they mean go on a diet !

Still works for me ? https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/thecollector The Brighton Belle one has gone. The blog did say they have simplified the electrics, making them per coach, removed the through tight couplings with wiring, and replaced with simpler NEM couplings. How true that is I guess we have to wait and see.

Why not just put the era, epoch or decade ? I have issue that modern image covers a period of 50 years between 1968-2017... and quite a lot happened in that time, where as Steam covers pretty much 3 periods of approx 10 year lumps between 1930 and 1968... less than 40 years, with most layouts either covering only two periods... 1930’s or 1955-65. Modern image tends to be : 62-72 - Green/blue and steam transition, 74-82 (TOPS blue era, lots of older diesels): 85-95 lots of colourful liveries, 95-2005 Ex BR stock in the privatisation era, and post 2005..lots of new stuff. Modern carries a lot of variation, much more than steam, and we are in a period now where not just 1st gen modern traction is history, but much 2nd generation too is away for scrap (56’s, 58’s, 87’s, 141’s, soon to be HST’s, Pacers ) and we’re approaching mass recycling for the 3rd generation (60’s, 373 Eurostar’s etc). I did see a layout once, that ran to its timetable, unfortunately for me, next train wasn’t due for 20 minutes so I wandered off, only to return and found i’d Missed it by a minute.

The revamped, revamped club replaces the all new revamped club which replaces the relaunched club that replaced the original. £40 or £80 membership fee with a promise that collectors club models will now only be available to collectors club members (it really says that !!). *** Gone is the 10% Hornby website discount, which was the only benefit to me of being in it.*** will my preorders be honoured or should I just buy elsewhere ?) It looks to have copied Bachmanns model, I wonder if the high price is a ruse to try and nibble the success that Bachmanns club is, if Bachmann see this and tempt an increase, and their club falls as a result, Hornby succeeded in bringing it down. The last few years of this club have brought me very little, despite all the promises, relaunches etc, not sure i’m ready to double up on price and try again, given the only benefit I had has gone, unless that H class image is the Bluebells own H class and the club price reflects the high price of joining it, i’m not sure anything else in there does anything for me. I’m cautiously approaching this one, and still have 6 months membership to run on the old revamped one, not having seen anything in that first 6 months of it. Let’s see what Warley brings, but initial thoughts are I may return them my membership card (only they never actually gave me one in the first place).

Thanks this is interesting. I’ve got two of these ordered, I kind of suspect the model, if all wheel drive, is probably going to be better than the prototype and out pull a Bachmann warship :-) wouldn’t that be a modelling first.. a model that’s too good.

It’s a tough one that.I’ve experienced both sides, I always block anyone who returns an item to me, without hesitation if the return is no fault of my own (inc postal damage that wasn’t due to me), no exceptions. It sounds harsh, but a return costs me postage two ways and I end up with an item often in worse condition than I sent it. I do however offer a return without hesitation or question.. it’s not worth arguing it. However I just don’t want the risk of a fussy customer trying it again. (I’ve kissed a few frogs to reach this decision and had a few horror stories with grubby customers to get to my hardline). But conversely I have had two sellers block me, one for my questioning their refusal to combine postage, two locos, two auctions, both under £50 and within small parcel dimensions and weight, but wanted £8 each for p&p. The other cancelled the sale as they felt it was too cheap what they sold it to me for but left me waiting a week before refunding it, blocked me, relisted it for £30 more. You could always ask someone else to buy it on their account, I think ebay allows anonymous guests to buy now too.. just log out and then try.

Or be more selective and / or be a patient opportunist. Though passing a Railroad Scotsman is an easy choice, a hard working family won’t have much difficulty finding one on ebay it’ll probably have a better paint job too.

Mogul, Manor, Grange and 51xx ... they all share the same wheels, cylinders (and tender where relevant).It’s not a big jump (compared to starting from scratch) for Hornby to go to any of them from the Grange. Thing is will repeats sell, if tender engines sell in a world rapidly approaching £200 for a DCC ready loco. If a tank engine is £150 it’s psychologically easier, but then again.. would something else sell better ?

It’s a Mk1 catering vehicle.If it helps get my point across, I could do the same with a BSK instead, same price, same history. which is kind of what I was trying to imply.

Opening the books is probably a good measure.If researching prototypes reveals pages and pages of historical photographs in published material, it’s a good indication that both the photographers of the day, and the books desire to publish them is indication they were popular and remain sellable in book form. It also helps for a good research material. If there’s nothing out there in print or online... it’s obscure or uninteresting and probably a riskier sale. As an example, Consider how many pictures you find of a Class 01 diesel shunter, then do the same for a class 02. Which did djh choose way back when...

But we are now in October. I wonder what price, digging up this old post from 2014... Currently £54.95 rrp, that’s close to double the price in 5 years (original RRP was £28.60), and there are not here yet, so anything can change.(Next birdcages are listed at £65). Hobby is going to separate men from the boys soon.

10 years later is was about £15 from Replica (c1991) 20 years later it was about £20 from Bachmann (c2001) 30 years later it was about £25 from Bachmann (c2011) Today, 36 years later it is £40. Or £168 for 4 Hornby mk1’s.. and they are a brand new tooling with much less detail than Bachmanns Mk1 and the 4TC, no lights, less weight, noDCC and the pickups, bogies and coupling design of the 4TC aren’t taken into account either. I’m not defending the 4TC, at £70 a coach it isn’t cheap, but a mass produced railroad Mk1 it is not...and the next release of Birdcages are now £65 each on Bachmanns website tonight.

So if I get right, between 63- withdrawal, they were pretty much Cornwall (Exeter-Penzance area), on express, sleepers ? - freight ?, presumably keeping them local keeps them reliable, and frees up other Warships for further afield. I was initially thinking they would be good hill climbers over a Warship given the extra weight, but see it’s an A1A-A1A not a Co-Co so just fat and heavier than a 42 it’d presumably be worse with Some HP going to drag that extra weight, 117 vs 79 tons... it’s a whole mk1 heavier than a Warship, nearly 10 tons over a Western. Did these need the 2 hours preheating like Maybachs . Fascinating class, they were only a year earlier than the 42’s, so much of this must have been known already. were they really Warship prototypes or was this a popular story..?, there’s not much in common with a 42 and not much more with a 43 ? And why 5, not 1 or 2 like all other prototypes ?, was it possible these were meant to rival or be an alternate to a Warship, which someone convinced a run of five, but may have considered to be more ? D600 delivered Jan 1958 D800 delivered Aug 1958 Forget the drawing board, or the jigs and tools, D800 must be already in assembly in January 1958... so if D600 was an eval, it was already too late for D800 ? Or was it a prototype for NBLs class 43’s ? D833 delivered Aug 1960 ? - but isn’t this just a 42 with MAN/Voith rather than Maybach. Don’t suppose there’s a source for further reading on these ? Of all the prototype diesels so far, these seem to be a rebel without a cause ? Unlike the 53, it’s a Diesel electric vs a Hydraulic version of a Western, and DP2 as a competitor but these things... ?