Compound2632

The vows taken by Benedictine monks are not as is popularly supposed, obedience, chastity, and poverty, but obedience, stability, and conversion of life.

We're seeing the last vow in action here but it's the second I am particularly interested in. To what extent were these locomotives moved around from shed to shed? Can your list of allocations for 1921 be taken as any sort of guide to allocations in, say, 1902? There were many Midland 0-6-0 goods engines that would have met with St Benedict's approval, remaining at the same shed for sixty years or more through successive rebuildings, ending their days as Venerable 3Fs.

There is something about a steam shed that evokes the cloister or chapter house:

[NRM DY 2743, embedded link.]

... with the Shed Foreman as Abbot?

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

Many thanks for the info.  Once I knew what it was, I found a good photo and description at:

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_equip202.htm

That's the photo in All About.

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Would that be within the loading gauge (with chimney stowed of course)?

Don't be deceived; these early covered goods wagons weren't very tall. Here's another Leamington photo:

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways photo ref. lnwrave4062a.]

See how much shorter these iron minks are than the adjacent NE van; the early proto-iron minks were even shorter.

Just now, MikeOxon said:

Any thoughts on the rather strange-looking covered van on the left of the photo?

The photo appears in J.H. Lewis et al., All About GWR Iron Minks (HMRS, 1980) where it is identified as Compressor Van No. 14938. (Incidentally the photo is there dated 1907, which is a bit later than I though.) A December 1903 portrait of the vehicle itself, when newly turned-out, is also given. It started life in 1856 as a sort of primordial iron mink, with roof door (removed in 1879) and big 3'4.5" wheels; as such it was condemned in August 1903, at 47 years; in its rebuilt form it lasted until 1937. Another old van of the same type was converted to a Tunnel Whitewash Van in March 1903, withdrawn 1926. There don't seem to be any photos of tunnels being whitewashed...

11 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

The bridge also features (or rather is being replaced, I think?) in another scene that would make an equally interesting diorama: 

The bridge being replaced in that photo is the massive skew bridge over High Street and Clement Street. (Still there, though the LNWR bridge on the left is long gone, only the approach viaducts remain.) I think the bridge in the photo with the poster hording is the smaller one over Lower Avenue, at the east end of the station. OS 25" map.

Purely on the condition of the Dean Goods in each photo, the High Street bridge photo is a few years earlier than the Lower Avenue bridge photo!

10 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

The steel protection bars around the huts look surprisingly like modern crash barriers!

They look to be made of old rail - so rather lacking in the cushioning effect of a modern crash barrier!

3 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

I spent a while considering where the sun might be and how shaded the side we are viewing was. 

The photographer is standing in Caversham Road, which runs NNE - SSW at the western end of the yard; the camera is facing roughly SSE. The large building in the background is the GWR Signal Works.

Here in Earley, the first occupant of the house we've lived in for the last 20 years, built in 1964, gave his occupation as "Signal Engineer".

1 hour ago, richbrummitt said:

One thought: Is it too late to change the colour of the fence to stone?  

That Vastern Road fence looks too dark to be stone, to me. But it does show that @Mikkel's fence could do with a bit of bashing about - it needs to lean over in a few places.

But I do find that this extra module gives the complete scene a magnetic personality.

3 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Hold the bus, whatever happened to this wagon? Unless it's now carrying a different load it's not one I recognise as a Sherton regular.

Presumably because it's out of period?

I take it from the description "Match Wagon" these were intended as runners for overhanging loads? A 20th century innovation, perhaps, as the 1 and 2 plank wagons of the 1870s, that would have been used for the purpose, became life expired? The number on Dave's model is in the right neck of the woods for that.

12 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

With just a tiny tweak to those wagons they'd be perfect...

What would you tweak? (Other than, say, the wheel profile and back-to-back...)

4 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

There’s lace making on the island of Burano if that helps 

Here: https://veneziaautentica.com/venice-museum-burano-lace-museum/

There has to be a model railway use for this stuff; I just haven't worked out what yet.

13 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

I am guessing it is an advertisement for a Ewbank carpet sweeper?
 

I couldn’t see that particular poster but here is an earlier version

 

https://www.advertisingarchives.co.uk/detail/44572/1/Magazine-Advert/Ewbank/1880s

I hope Dave will forgive me; I only offer the following because when something is so close to perfection one wants to see it get even closer:

It seems to me that the monochrome Ewbank poster is much more in the style of a newspaper or magazine advert rather than an advertising hoarding poster. It has too much writing. Posters designers had learnt by the Edwardian period to use bold images with the minimum of verbage; I'm pretty sure such posters would be in full colour. Unfortunately the earliest Ewbank poster I can find to illustrate this dates from the 1920s or 1930s.  

I think the same goes for the Plantol Soap poster. Plantol Soap adverts come in an interesting variety some of which wouldn't pass muster today; others were tending to the risqué. This might be more the thing for station advertising; possibly not this or this.

1 hour ago, wenlock said:

Two Edwardian GWR layouts in one exhibition, the crowds will be at fever pitch! 

Let's just hope it doesn't spill over into violence between the reds and the greys.

Looking forward to it - fingers crossed on petrol! We spoke at Basingstoke in March 2020 - the last weekend before the shutters came down, so it'll be good to see you and the layout again at my first exhibition trip since.

By the way, note the difference in design of the height extensions or raves on the wagon on the tippler compared to the two caught in trains above. I wonder if the wagon next to the one on the tippler is also Bradwell Wood? - the raves look more like the ones on the wagons in the trains.

Also, looking at the wagon on the tippler again, I see that the internal diagonals, where they come through onto the outside face of the solebar, are curved downwards, rather than straight in Gloucester fashion. Another detail that is very visible but I've never (yet) modelled is the catch for the bottom-door release - an RCH standard piece of kit of Midland design. (I think it first appeared with the high-sided side and bottom door wagons to drawing 550, aka D299, dating from 1882.)

My guess at livery is black, white lettering shaded red, with red diamond bordered white.

1 hour ago, airnimal said:

The Getty photograph of Bradwell Wood wagon was featured in a book on the NLR  published jointly by the National Railway and Science Museums in 1979.

It also features in G.F. Chadwick, North Staffordshire Wagons (Wild Swan, 1993) as an example of a PO wagon based on the Knotty.

A very similar wagon from the same firm can be seen in the southbound goods and mineral train in this film shot at Bushey on the LNWR main line in 1897: https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-railway-traffic-on-the-lnwr-1897-online

Screen shot:

And another in this northbound goods train on the Midland main line passing the scene of the Wellingborough accident of 2 September 1898:

So, one of the better-documented PO wagons of the late 1890s!

1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

plus one from, er Bracknell.

I shall be interested in the rationale for that one! Bracknell is not famous for its collieries.

2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I do have some 5&9 dumb buffered wagons, which I know are the wrong area but I am sure will fit in.

The 5&9 wagons do very well as generic dumb buffer wagons - you can give them appropriate local / Wrexham / North Staffs liveries. Since there is very little photographic evidence for the exact appearance of specific dumb buffered wagons, the world is your dumb-buffered oyster.

36 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Mikkel,

I assume that wagon is far too late for us.  The Wrexham coalfields supplied coal to mid-Wales so I could get a free lunch as well.

'Fraid so, it's an RCH 1923 specification standard design with such un-1895 profligacies as oil axleboxes and both-side brakes. Moreover, despite Oxford putting the livery of a 10 ton wagon on it, it's a 12 ton wagon. One of my bugbears. The really big lettering isn't quite the thing either. Have you got a copy of Mike Lloyd's Private Owners on the Cambrian (WRRC, 1998)? That shows that as well as the Wrexham coal field, a lot of coal coming onto the Cambrian was from the North Staffordshire coalfield.

For 1895, you'll be wanting a goodly proportion of dumb buffer private owner wagons - you're only a quarter of a mineral wagon's lifetime after the introduction of the RCH 1887 specification which required sprung buffers for new construction.

17 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I used some Micro set and sol and then sprayed the sides with Dulcote.

Micro set and sol are formulated to dissolve the carrier film on transfers that have such a thing, such as waterslide. I'd not thought of using them with dry rub-down transfers, as I couldn't see what benefit they would bring. So I'm interested to know what difference you find they make. I would always want to varnish over the transfers; when applying them myself I gloss varnish the surface first but I don't think POWSides do that themselves - that may be the root of the problems some report.

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

That would be nice to see. If you are thinking of a pre-lettered one it might be good to pick it up at a shop or their exhibition stand, if that's practical. The lettering on mine was damaged/peeling here and there, so you could pick a good one. Or alternatively get the transfer.

I can't say I've had a problem but it is a while since I've had a pre-lettered kit rather than transfers. But between you you and @jwealleans are tempting me to try some more pre-lettered kits. There is demand for anthracite in the West Midlands so some Swansea Vale collieries are on my list.

11 minutes ago, Regularity said:

“From dust ye came, and to dust ye shall return.”

Chinchilla's epitaph?

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

It's certainly an impressive print. What I meant was, if the Hornby wagons are 1887 then could you not apply the red Ayres livery (so that it matches your 1902 period) and do the detailing? But maybe I misunderstand.

I would start from something that was closer to the prototype! The kit you've built, in fact.

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Aha, hadn't seen that, very useful. The Ayres lettering seems to be available as separate transfers from Powsides, the question of course is whether they would fit the Hornby wagons.

It was rather the other way round. Hornby did a beautiful rendition of the livery on their near-miss 1887 6-plank wagon, which I tried upgrading in the running gear department; this photo shows the unmodified wagon (their weathered version, from a 3-pack) posed with a suitable pre-grouping locomotive:

The quality of the printing is stunning:

It's a shame that Hornby have moved away from this underframe for these wagon bodies as it gave a really surprisingly good impression, albeit depending on a good deal of trompe l'oeil - the brake V-hanger is the one thing that stands out, although closer inspection reveals that the brake lever is a foot thick at the pivot!

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

I wonder if the Weedon wagon lettering has slipped when making the transfers, or been compressed somehow. If you look at the original Powsides graphic representation, that lettering is lower:

 

https://www.powsides.co.uk/search.php/Weedon?

Perhaps. I did go to look when writing my post but the POWSides website isn't working for me just at the moment.

Looking good. Now I have no choice but to retrofit the big nuts on all my Gloucester wagons...

I very much doubt any C&G Ayres mineral wagon was used for furniture - they were coal merchants on a large scale, as the size of their fleet indicates. There's a little essay about them by Keith Turton on Warwickshire Railways from which I learned that the green and yellow livery dates from 1910 - which skewered my Hornby upgrades, at least for my c. 1902 purposes - while the red goes back to broad gauge days.

I find myself twitching about that Weedon wagon. I wonder if this is one where POWSides have used a Gloucester wagon to stand in for a wagon of some other builder. The layout of the lettering doesn't look quite right - I would expect Wallingford Watlington and Wheatley each to be written on a plank, not over the join of two planks. Unfortunately I don't have Bill Hudson's Vol. 2, which is where the Lightmoor Index tells me a photo is to be found but there is a photo of a coke wagon built by the Birmingham RC&W Co. in the HMRS collection.

Anyway, as I know you know, there were plenty of dumb-buffered PO wagons still doing sterling service - there's a rather nice one from Wyken Colliery, on the LNWR Coventry-Nuneaton line, in that famous Vastern Road Yard photo! (Just to the left and down from the C&G Ayers furniture container.)

Re. that container - it does look very like the ones that became widespread in the 1930s but c. 1905 there were no conflats - so presumably an ordinary low-sided open would be used.

Excuse my insomniacal ramblings.

To clarify that remark: I've long thought the panelling of the Triang Caledonian carriages was rather oddly-proportioned, with the waist too high and the windows too shallow, to eyes accustomed to Midland / LMS panelling. But I now see that Triang were reasonably accurately reproducing the panelling on the Grampian stock. (Although I believe the carriages they were nominally representing were the two preserved 57 ft carriages that ran with No. 123 in the 50s/60s, stretched to fit the full-length Mk 1 underframe moulding.)