Compound2632

At some point I have to do that for Indian Red frames on my backdated Oxford Rail Dean Goods...

I'm looking forward to seeing it all running sweetly again on Day 83!

I'm probably good for a couple in the fullness of time. I hope you won't mind if I mention some points re the guard's door, from looking at photos in Southern Wagons Vol. 3. The lower panel, whether plain or planked, is flush with the framing but has some raised beading around its edge. The top panel, above the droplight, is not inset to the full depth of the framing, unlike the planking on the body sides and ends, which is fixed behind the framing. See plates 148 and 150. 

I've just spotted something I've missed before - the ends are different. At the guards end, the windows do not extend right up to the top rail of the framing, whereas at the other end, they do - but they are, I think, the same size, it's just that they sit higher - plate 147.  Altogether a fascinating vehicle!

The continuous upper stepboard seems not to be an original feature - plates 147 and 148 show separate stepboards for the guards door and the double door. How much faff would it be to change the CAD to represent this (and the plain-panelled door)? It would mean that the two solebar/axlebox prints would be different - opposite handed.

 "where one of the buffer holes cracked out when I was drilling it out for the buffers, leaving a big hole in the bufferbeam. I swapped to a needle file to do the rest after this!"

Been there, done that. I described it as a knack but was firmly put in my place - it's a bodge. The correct procedure, I was told, is to run the drill bit counter-clockwise. I subsequently did this (installing cast buffers on the second of your Brighton Open As) and it works.

13 minutes ago, Barry O said:

The red should be better but get a better buffer beam red.

I've tried and failed to say that ten times quickly.

Can't the buffer heads be removed during painting?

1 hour ago, brossard said:

I wouldn't worry too much about touching the paint up.  I expect you will weather it.  If your era is BR, these would look very distressed at that time.

Given that it says GER on the siderail, it must represent the wagon as it was no later than the mid-1920s. GER would be replaced by LNER at the first repaint after grouping. 

1 hour ago, brossard said:

PO wagons usually had independent brakes that could be operated from either side but only one side at a time.  There shouldn't be a rod between the two brake sets.   Some had drop doors.

If the wagon was built before 1911, it would probably have been built with brakes on one side only. It's possible that by the early 20s it would have been given brakes on the other side too, to comply with the Board of Trade regulations of 1911 - which allowed a period of grace for bringing old wagons up to scratch. These regulations required wagons to have a brake that could be applied from either side but only released from the side from which it had been applied. As Brossard says, for mineral wagons with bottom doors, the simplest (and cheapest) way of achieving this was to fit a second set of brakes, independent of the existing brakes. 

If you look at your first picture and think about what happens when the cross-shaft is rotated, you will see that as the brake push-rods are currently connected to the tumblers (the short levers connecting the push rods to the cross-shaft), the brakes would move towards the wheels on one side and away from them on the other. A cross-shaft makes for complicated brakes!

PO wagons were often on a a hire and maintenance contract from one of the wagon building companies such as Metropolitan, Birmingham, Gloucester, Charles Roberts, Hurst Nelson, Harrison Camm, &c. The terms might typically be a seven-year lease with a repaint at mid-term - so the paintwork would be no more than three and a half years old. Railway company wagons, in contrast, might be lucky to get repainted on a seven year cycle, so on average their paintwork would look more worn.

Robert Schumann's Op. 102 Five Pieces in Folk Style, for cello and piano (or in this household, for clarinet and piano) are popularly known as "Stuck in Folkestone" (German: Stücke im Volkston).

14 hours ago, 5&9Models said:

In 1844, the Head Porter at Bricklayers Arms, Thomas Buckingham, had sixteen men under his control so I suppose many hands make light work.

If they had been coaching inn employees looking for a brighter future, they would have been used to it.

Superb. I really must do some more on 2390, which sort of stuck at the proof of principle stage.

48 minutes ago, 5&9Models said:

 

Yes but.....GWR..... really? 

Discernment comes with age.

Anyway, it's clearly an absorbed engine.

That little engine has such character that one wants to see a re-interpretation with your current skill set! 

The Midland at least was addicted to them, certainly in goods yards and marshalling yards.

Nothing unusual at all about the three-ways - unless you mean in the inglenook context. I'm just toying with variations on using them heel to heel as you do here.

I like the pair of asymmetric three ways. I'm toying with a biscuit factory layout idea - have a think about what happens when you put a pair of three-ways heel-to-heel with the middle road common. You'll need a couple of short diamonds... 

To remain closer to your existing plan, keeping the run-round more or less where it is, join the top road of the RH three-way to the middle road of the LH three-way. Only needs one short diamond.

How close together can the three-ways be squeezed?

Even with your current plan, I think you really need a train length (or maybe train less guard's van) to the right of the toe of the RH three-way.

Stop putting that SER brake van photo in provocative positions!

Splendid vehicles. Cattle wagons seem to be amongst the earliest vehicles to achieve what one might call their normative form - the bodywork, or at least its key constructional features, would not look out of place on vehicles built half a century later.

It took a bit longer for horesboxes to grow to a sensible length - a long enough wheelbase for steady riding at express speeds - by sprouting grooms' and provender / tack compartments.

On 20/05/2020 at 15:55, Magdalen Bridge said:

Forgive my ignorance, but are the numbers on the tarpaulin independent from that of the wagon? That is, would wagon 65815, for example,  have a tarpaulin with the same number on it?

Sheets lived on an entirely different lifecycle to wagons. Sheets went back to the sheet stores every 15 - 18 months for maintenance. The sheets you've printed have a month / year date on them - 11/00 and 10/03 - these are the dates they are due for return to sheet stores. I think this means the two you've printed could not have coexisted! However, I think that c. 1902 may be the change-over date between the two styles, based on the dates on the Thomas Petith shhets (early style) and Ian's template (later style), taking it for granted that both have done their research. The later style seems to be universal by c. 1905, based on photos of Reading goods yards.

Just now, Magdalen Bridge said:

That is wonderfully useful to know. My copy of Atkins et al arrived a few days ago, so I will do some digging. In the meantime, I will try to track down some more Cooper Craft kits.

If I have understood correctly, 71460 of Lot 220 could arguably have oil axleboxes, and yet have painted numbers? I ask because I prefer the painted numbers to plates; I find the plates quite boring. 

Arguably. I think in the pre-1904 livery photos I've seen - by no means an exhaustive collection, all the 4-plank wagons with plates, for which the axleboxes are visible, have oil axleboxes and all those with painted numbers have grease. Can't necessarily read all the numbers in these. I've no proof that 71460 was built with either plates or oil axleboxes though I believe the wagon registers at the NRM could confirm the boxes.

From my reading of Atkins, the change from grease to oil axleboxes for iron minks took place during the construction of Lots 172 and 193, in December 1897. I've assumed that date applies to 4-plank wagons too, so 65815 from Lot 161 is a bit touch-and-go for oil boxes. There is a photo of 67389 of Lot 191 with grease boxes. Both the 4-plankers I've built that have kept their Coopercraft oil axleboxes, 71460 of Lot 220 and 10670 of Lot 355, also have cast numberplates, though 71460 might be a little early for that, as the earliest one with cast plates of which I've seen a photo is 73189 of Lot 287 - with oil axleboxes. I'm afraid I've become a bit of a number and Lot junkie.

While on the topic of @Ian Smith's invaluable artwork, when I've used it scaled to 4 mm, I've printed it on regular printer paper using a very ordinary HP Deskjet printer. Rizla paper is a rice paper, I understand, and there are other brands available - I've not yet worked out what larger sizes there may be*. But what printer do you use for such a fragile paper? @richbrummitt?

*I baulked at clicking through to the Swansea Cannabis Club's website!

I believe buff / sand colour was fairly common for lime wagons - black would show the lime-stains more.

Quite a bit of surface texture on the front-facing surfaces on this one?

@jwealleans recently posted a link to his method of making tender flares:

Not something I've actually tried, I'm afraid.

I believe N were rather more specifically loco coal wagons, the Great Western not going in for building its own general mineral wagons, relying on the coal &c trade to provide their own or else hiring them in from the wagon companies.

Crocodile is, I think, a telegraphic code - so I wonder if it was chosen on account of the diagram letter C rather than the other way round. C covers trolleys, not all trolleys were crocodiles.

So, I think that apart from O for open and V for van, and the idea that specialised vans come after V in the alphabet, you're looking for more system than there really was.

Other railways got by with just D for diagram!

There's a bit more logic or at least system on the carriage side, with A for bogie first, B for bogie first brake (were there any?), C for bogie third, D for bogie third brake, E for bogie composite - except that where F ought to be bogie composite brake, such carriages seem to have been given E diagrams...