Wagonmaster

I think Keith should be congratulated on soliciting opinion on the colours to be used on GT3. It is however, a minefield as others have noted. Witness the discussion over on the Heljan Class 86 thread regarding the 'as built' shade of blue used! For me, as a paid up customer, I would be happy with the shades John Isherwood has suggested and wouldn't complain with those. Many people I think will be comparing John's and Tim Coles models with Keith's version as, as others have noted, old colour photographs are notoriously unreliable for colour matching. Having said that, I do feel the green used on Tim's excellent model is a tad too light. Personally, I would have used a slightly darker shade, but that's just my personal preference. It is a nightmare and KR Models will be judged on its first product as a newcomer to the market. No pressure then! At least the Fell in BR Black or BR Green will be easier! Looking forward to seeing some pre-production samples painted and decorated.

Thanks Michael, and thanks for all those likes everyone. I'll look forward to the short wheelbase Fowler in due course.

I have eventually managed to finish my version of Mike's Fowler 150hp kit in the form of ED7. This was greatly assisted by the help and photographs forthcoming on this forum, so thank you everyone for that. My model has a DCC decoder installed between the frames and a working cab light, so you can see all that interior cab detail. The bonnets are full of lead to increase the weight. The works plate is a custom etch from Narrow Planet and features the correct works number. The model is powered by a Mashima 1020 driving through a High Level gearbox. It runs very nicely and is a great addition to the fleet. I'll have a go at the Southern versions sometime and ED2 to ED6 if Mike produces the shorter wheelbase version.

Martyn, Many thanks for your quick reply and very helpful information and photographs. You have just about covered all my queries. I seem to have gone down a different avenue with motorising the unit. I have used one of Chris Gibbon's excellent High Level Lo Rider motor bogies that produces a good smooth controllable performance. Amply powerful enough for this unit. Thanks again

Just found this thread on the 303's, very interesting and informative. I too have a DC Kits model under construction, but I am struggling with a few details. I'm building one in 'as built' condition. I'm hoping for some help or pointers please. Basically, it's the car end detail. There are lots of photographs showing front views, but none that I've seen showing the various cars inner ends. There appears to be two jumper cables and what looks like the communication cord mechanism(?) and tell tales at the top below the cantrail. Where these on all cars, including the NDMBS and if so, which end? I've heard mention of some larger boxes on the NDMBS, but is this both ends or just the brake end? And finally, were there any vertical hand rails, as on some other contemporary units. Any help gratefully received.

That's great. Thanks very much for the help.

The 5WES is looking great, coming on nicely. Enjoying this thread. I am also trying to build one and have a few queries. The lower body is a light grey colour as can be seen on your models. What colour did you use for this? The replacement starting resistors, did you build these or buy them? Finally, numbers. I see on some photos it is just the car number whereas on others, it is preceeded with the set number. Do all cars have the set number or just the driving cars? Did they carry the NSE logo and text at all?

Something to do Ilford being an ex-LNER shed with previous experience perhaps? I used to try and skip an AM4/304 if I knew there was a following service with an AM10/310, much better with their B4 bogies. As for AM9/309's, they were great weren't they! Smooth as anything at 100mph with Commonwealth bogies.

That's what I thought Keefer. The problem is, what shade! The majority of photographs I have looked at lead me think more in terms of Caledonian Sky Blue. I appreciate the difficulties with film reproduction and memory. Witness the debate about Class 86's and Electric/Rail Blue! I think I shall go with Caley Sky Blue and see how they look. I certainly agree with your comments Joseph on ride quality. I spent years commuting on AM4/304's being thrown about all the way to New Street! I found the motor car the most comfortable, probably on account of the extra weight of the car and the slightly different, longer wheelbase bogies. Poor HM, I did see that she had to endure a Class 700!

Just came across this topic. AM3's were always one of my favourites. Am I right in thinking the underfloor equipment was similar to the London Midland's AM4/304's? If so, I can fabricate some copies for my ongoing AM3 project. The other query is what colour were they originally painted? An earlier post said 'a version of Caledonian Blue'. However, there was more than one Caledonian Blue. Some photographs seem to show a Sky Blue shade, but others, like Flubrush's picture seem to show a darker blue. Any ideas? Incidentally, I think Flubrush's photo is of the special train run to open the system carrying HM The Queen. She is sitting behind the driver. Possibly one of the few occasions The Queen has travelled second class!

That's great, I'm pleased to read that the project is still live and thanks for your prompt responses. I thought the price would be in that order, it is basically four wagons after all. Funnily enough, I was going to draw up the centre vehicles and use York Model Making myself! I'll make a few enquiries and see what happens.

I've just come across this thread whilst searching for information on Cartics hoping to make my own. However, why reinvent the wheel when you are making a good job of it! How is the project going? Do you have a ball park figure for the cost of a kit? Look forward to seeing how you're progressing.

I too am trying to model some of these earlier locomotives and find Hackworth wheels, or lack of them, a problem. Has anyone tried the Newman Miniatures 3D printed ones? I guess the other options would be either etched brass overlays or 3D printed centres inserted into Gibson or Ultrascale tyres. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

A Brecknell-Willis as a spare part is good too.

I'd second that Ben. We AC modellers will be looking to change all our HO scale Sommerfeldt pans to a correct 4mm scale Stone-Faiveley. As has been mentioned, some 86's were built with cross arm pans. Any plans for these variants? Cheers Steve

I thought it would be interesting to have a small working diorama/layout to showcase these early loco's and stock, including a simple Plateway. I think it could be possible in OO gauge and will order Trevithick's loco to have a go. The 'Perseverance' I was thinking of is indeed the one you found. Again, if trying a small Plateway section, this would be a highly unusual loco with two chimneys etc. Back on the Edge Rail, a good candidate for me would be Puffing Billy. I know the original isn't Standard Gauge, but the replica is. A few ideas there anyway. Steve

Pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking Turbosnail. Maybe the Exactoscale wheels might be better than Gibson as they have a thinner rim. On a slightly different angle, has anyone tried 'motorising' the Penydarren loco? Obviously it would be very difficult to motorise the loco, I was thinking more of a motorised wagon pushing it. Does being a Plateway rather than an Edge Rail loco present any problems? A metal plateway would have to be used along with flangeless wheels on the motorised wagon of course. There are some interesting Plateway locos, the intriguing one to me being 'Perseverance', not the Rainhill one, but the geared rack/adhesion loco with two chimneys. That would make an unusual model! Steve

I wondered whether it would be. I recall someone doing some Boxpok wheels for a BR Class 12 shunter. Eccentricity is probably the main problem and fractures, as you say. Maybe one of the materials would be better than others for this purpose? I think the manufacturers use ABS? Might be worth investigating though?

Only just stumbled on this thread whilst looking for the BRCW/AEI/Sulzer 'Lion'! What fantastic models and in N Gauge as well! Incredible! I will be having a go at some of these as time and funds permit, Era 1 has always fascinated me and have a small collection of some of the commercial offerings. A thought on wheels, apologies if I may have missed something. With reference to 4mm scale, Gibson wheels are plastic inserts pressed into steel tyres. In order to get realistic looking Hackworth wheels, is there any mileage in producing 3D printed inserts to press into Gibson tyres? Steve

Many thanks for the replies and photographs of ED7. Much appreciated. Just need to crack on with it now!

Having just bought Mike's excellent kit, I would like to build it as LMR ED7. However, I don't seem to be able to find a photograph of it anywhere! The other ED's and ex-Southern loco's seem well covered. So, does anyone have or know where I could get a photograph of ED7 from please? Thanks

A very interesting thread and I thought I'd add my tuppence worth. I have built the High Level Kits 4mm scale model and a very nice kit it is. Etched in nickel silver with lost wax brass castings, it goes together very well, provided you are accurate in locating the etches. As with a lot of Chris's kits, if it doesn't fit, you've soldered something up wrong! The self contained chassis is compensated and is powered by a Mashima 1020 driving all four wheels through 108:1 gearboxes. The chassis just bolts into the body. There is just enough room in the bonnet ends to add some extra weight and in my case, a DCC decoder between the motor and bodyside. I have finished my model in the later BR black livery to fit in with my modelling era. Have to have a go at the rue d'etropal BEL 1 next.

I believe Fox Transfers and/or Shawplan (can't remember where I got them from without checking) produce etched numbers and Lion suitable for the AL Series electrics. My AL1's, AL5's and retro detailed AL6's have them fitted. A tiny dab of Glue'n'glaze holds them on perfectly without the glue marks. Spare 4mm scale Stone-Faiveley AMBR pantographs would be an excellent idea. I have tried Bachmann to no avail. Perhaps Heljan would be more helpful?

Nice picture. Is this the ex-LYR No.3? I believe one of them went to a Synthite Factory.

Thanks for your reply Brian. If you do happen to have the works numbers of the Simplex at Cathays I would be grateful. I am trying to track down what were numbered PWM1024, PWM1622, and PWM1650. I have the details of PWM1779 and PWM1780. Also GWR No.14. Photographs would be a bonus! Steve J