Wagonmaster

Great thread JCL! Only just discovered it but you've produced a great looking model. Hopefully you will complete your 3D printed version and I very definitely will be after one when ready! Keep up the good work

Talking of pantographs, did I read somewhere that some early AL6's were fitted with cross arm pantographs? I'm sure I've seen a picture of an original liveried AL6 with one, but I can't lay my hands on the photograph at the moment.

Hi DCB90024, This is the link to Michael Edge's thread. The new pantograph is on Page 61. Hope that helps

Well there might be hope for us. Michael Edge of Judith Edge Kits has recently posted a constructed test etch of their forthcoming Stone-Faively AMBR pantograph in 4mm scale!

I know where there are some of those too, along with an AM3, AM4, AM9, AM10 and a 313! ;-)

That looks good Michael! Is it robust enough to touch and rub along the contact wire on a moving model?

I registered my expression of interest too as it will fill a gap and save me bodging, I mean converting, a 47. I'm just wondering how far the tooling changes will go. As noted on previous posts, it's a bit more than twin exhaust ports. Are they really going to retool the cantrail grilles as well? Hope so. Having done a 48, is a 'Cuban 47' next? You're almost there with a 48! ;-)

I guess that although I welcome new models of prototypes not so far covered, I have spent a lot of years building them for myself, only to find that an RTR version is announced. I guess that is what happens in this hobby though. Good news of course for those who have no interest in kit building. I'll stick with mine for now as at least I can say I built it! Guess what's just coming out of the works just now? Yes, you've guessed it, a Barclay Class 06! Doh!

I guess this is good news for us 4mm scale modellers, but what am I going to do with this?

Thanks for that John. Yes, you can see the curved bodyside behind the cab handrail clearly in that photograph. Maybe I was expecting a more pronounced curve. It looks a bit more pronounced in the advert photograph, but that is probably a combination of angle and light. I'm sure KR Models have got it right as they may have access to the same drawings as you.

I think I have agree. Prototype photographs show a slight angling in of the side panels from the waistline. It's not much and the EP photographs might not show it properly.

For a first EP, that's very good indeed! I would also second the comments about the cab steps and frame detail. It's probably there, but just doesn't show up on the photograph. Is it me or are the cab windows a little small or the frames too thick? Looking forward to seeing it running and a painted example. Great stuff.

Many thanks to Ian Fisher and Lyddrail for their help with this. It has answered my questions and I'll break out with the masking tape and Silver Grey paint over the next few days!

Thanks for that Lyddrail and the attached photo of your excellent model. I had looked at Humbrol 147 wondering if it would be about the right shade as it is a lot lighter than the Phoenix Silver Grey paint I have. It seems that it might be just about right. The only other option I could see was BR Rail Grey, but that is possibly too light!

Thanks for that suggestion and link Crompton33. I have messaged them and hopefully they will know what these colours actually are.

I think there may be some misunderstanding here in the nature of my question. The question is, what colour or shade is the body of an 'as built' Class 442 Wessex Electric? I have been led to believe previously that it was Silver White. I have painted the first driving car in this colour, Phoenix P178 in fact. I have added the blue and red stripes and painted the cab fronts yellow and dark grey. You can see this in the photograph of my incomplete model below. So, having done this, I have looked at the model and found that it looked wrong to me. Examining various photographs on the web, it seems the main body colour has a light grey look about it and not Silver White as I have painted my model. In seeking the correct shade, I posted this thread on the forum in the hope that more knowledgeable people than I would be able to help in identifying the correct shade to use. It has been suggested that the shade might be Silver Grey. I have a pot of this, Phoenix P180, but when held up to the body, it looks far too dark in comparison to the photographs. You can see this from the images that some contributors have kindly posted. In fact, it seems only just grey and in some images appears almost white. The white lining between the lower red stripe and lower body is what gives it away as not being white though. So the question is, what is it? Can anyone suggest a shade, preferably with a code number? I am struggling to complete the model because of this, so any suggestions are gratefully received.

Thanks for that photograph Ceptic, it shows the light grey very clearly. So, what grey should I use? As already stated, Phoenix Silver Grey looks too dark. Maybe the light grey as used on the lower band of the Railfreight Sector triple grey livery? Or something else, like Humbrol light grey? Any ideas?

I used Phoenix P178 NSE Silver White for the main body colour, thinking this was the correct shade. I have compared a Phoenix plain white, Phoenix P976 for the white bands. It looks as if it would give the right difference in shades, but I'm not convinced. As it happened, I picked up the latest issue of RM today which featured an article that included some Wessex Electrics. Now I know printed reproduction photographs can be misleading, but their shade look like that used on the Intercity Executive/Swallow livery. Not sure of the paint colour or number for that. However, could that be what was used and NSE Silver White P178 for the white bands?

Great models of the Lartigue. I would be interested in 4mm versions.

Thanks for that reply and photo and to Roy's links too. I think I see the problem now. I'd been informed originally that the whole white areas of the body were Silver White. This is how I have painted my model so far and it didn't look quite right. The bit I was missing is that the areas between the red bands are 'proper white'. That would give the right amount of subtle distinction between shades and the slight grey tinge visible on certain photographs! So, by 'proper white', do we mean just a plain white, or would it perhaps be Rail White? I'm also guessing that this is the same colour/shade combination on the Class 319's?

Thanks for your response John. Your two excellent photographs show my dilemma. In the first one, the lower band looks almost white, similar to the roof. In the second photo, I'd say it was definitely light grey. The Precision Paints Silver Grey is a lot darker than that, so maybe Rail Grey might be nearer? Or something inbetween? The same dilemma can be seen on original livery Class 319's. Difficult to work out what's going on there too. Bachmann's latest 159's have a similar livery, but the grey looks way too dark. I see that your photographs were taken in 1991, some three years after introduction. Where they white abd had the grey added sometime in that three years?

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I am puzzling a bit over the 'as built' livery of the Class 442 Wessex Electrics. Researching through early photographs seems to show the units painted all over Silver White with blue and red bands. Other references and later photographs indicate that they were painted all over Silver Grey with white, blue and red bands. I have bought some Precision Paints Silver Grey, which I was informed was the correct shade, but looks far too dark in comparison to photographs. Now I realise photographs can be misleading in terms of lighting, colour reproduction etc., but it has left me a bit confused. So, the question is, does anyone know what the original as built livery was? Was it all white and the grey added later? Is the recommended Silver Grey actually the right shade, or should it be some lighter shade? Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Certainly an interesting result from MGR Hooper's re-working of the Heljan photograph. I'd be quite happy if they turned out that shade, it's how I remember them in the late '60's/early '70's. Here is a link to an interesting photo: https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h63C1EFC8 It is also good that Heljan have taken on board some of the observations made on this forum and others. It can only result in a better model for everyone, higher customer satisfaction and increased sales. A win win situation surely. Perhaps other manufacturers should take note. So when are we getting a Class 84?

Certainly looking very good. For my era E3114 is the one. Pity the photographs don't show the pantograph raised, I would have liked a closer look at it. The numbers and 'Ferret and Dartboard' crest appear to be printed. I'm hoping that etched versions are either supplied or commercially available ones will fit directly on top. The aluminium cast numbers and crest were a feature of the AL1-AL6's. And now for the elephant in the room. What do we think of the colour? The earlier versions are definitely a different shade to the later Rail Blue ones, which is good. To my eyes and memory, I would say the earlier ones could do with being a tad lighter in shade. Looking forward to their release though.

A nice and useful picture of ED4. This is the shorter version of the Fowler not covered by Mike's kit. With a bit of luck, Mike will produce one in due course.