Nigelcliffe

I have a thought on measuring this stuff.... Requires minimum of a decent volt meter, but ideally an oscilloscope. Loco will need to be on bench in some sort of cradle (running on rollers might be good). Connect the measuring device to the motor wires inside the loco. And then run it on the different power sources (DC, DCC, different track voltages). See what happens to the applied volts at the motor at different throttle settings. Ideally this would also be coupled with some measure of RPM of the motor, or wheel RPM, which will equate to running speed. No idea if the above kit is available to do the testing. - Nigel

Replace your track/wiring until you don't have a dead spot. Replace the slips with designs which don't have 1 second gaps in conductivity. We're into the old question of : "are stay alives a band-aid for poor quality elsewhere, or a Rolls-Royce running tweak for already good designs". Damage.... loco valve gear gets something from the scenery in it, how much can you mangle with a loco which can't stop for 20-seconds ? Loco leaves track for some reason, how far does it go horizontally before falling to the floor.

I can't see why anyone needs beyond 1 second of stay-alive running time(*). So, if the Train-o-matic is giving the performance required in all other respects, why change it ? There is a reason for much larger storage capacity, and that's a Zimo feature whereby the decoder can detect if it comes to a standstill on a dead-spot. Then, the decoder will attempt to nudge the loco along until contact is restored. To do that requires lots of energy as motors need a lot to start them moving. I think that's a "Zimo unique" feature, and independent of the "run time" value going out to 25 seconds (if the energy store holds out that long). (* I've done a few comedy demo setups. Recently, a Bachmann J72 which would run about 20 inches along the sleepers (no rails) of a layout under-construction with a wagon containing rail and chairs behind it. Hugely entertaining, and turned down in decoder settings to sensible immediately after the fun. I'll routinely test stay-alive installations by running a loco onto a piece of paper to see how far it goes. But then set the run-time to sensible. ) - Nigel

Have you swapped the combination between locos for the figures you quote ? Or are they different locos ? Different locos will have a massive impact on the run-times, a high-efficiency motor will give 20 seconds running, a low-efficiency might be exhausted in under 2 seconds. There are CV's inside Train-o-matic for stay-alive run-on. I don't know how they impact the 2-wire stay-alives (the decoders are, like ESU, designed for three-wire setups), but its possible they are relevant. Default run time is quite short, because they've decided locos which run over the scenery are probably going to cause damage to themselves and the layout.

Incorrect for Lenz/ESU/Zimo/Train-o-matic/etc... (Can't answer for DCC-Concepts, they did their own thing, and it isn't compatible with everyone else). What the direction of travel CV indicates is "Left rail" or "Right rail" in the direction the loco is moving. So, with a single Brake Module, in the normal direction of travel, with the CV set to that rail (only), the loco will stop a loco regardless of travelling chimney first or tender first. If travelling the opposite direction, with the CV set to the single rail (only, as above), then the loco ignores the stop section. However, a different stop section on the other rail would be effective (because everything has been turned around). There are, in different decoders, usually options to disable ABC braking from a function key which might allow your tender locos to drive tender-first through the brake section, assuming that's what you would want to happen. I think your setting will give "wrong behaviour". If you've set them to "both sides" then they'll stop whether travelling up or down the line. (that's what the setting does! - it stops the loco if it detects a brake instruction on either side "in the direction of travel"). I think you want them set to "one direction only" as with the tender locos above. - Nigel

Post your questions on the JMRIusers group on Groups.IO. That's where JMRI tech support is found. There are dozens of Mac users on there (half the JMRI development team use Macs). Its likely a very simple settings matter, or an old file lying around in your profile (which is what it sounds like if you've a reference to a JMRI version 3 file). - Nigel

RunTime value of 60 ought to give best part of 2 seconds. All looks OK from what I can see in the photo. Now into guesswork territory... 1) check the function mapping (takes a long time to read all of that in DecoderPro). Is Aux7 set in any mapping rows ? If so, could that be a factor ? I'd be tempted to remove it from any rows. 2) whilst I thought the ESU powerpack doesn't care about analogue operation being possible (just doesn't operate in analogue), just maybe its confused by it, so turn off analogue in CV29, and also the analogue modes in CV50. Thereafter, its discuss with the supplying retailer and/or ESU. I don't know if SouthWest Digital still offer support in the UK for ESU products ?

Basic wiring first.... An ESU stay-alive has three wires. Decoder Positive, Ground and a control wire, all need connecting, the control is only on the decoder, the positive and ground are on decoder and duplicated on the loco after the Next18 socket. Are they all connected to the correct places ? The run time is set on the "Advanced" Pane, fair way down left column for "Power Pack Maintain Time".

In an ESU decoder, any CV above 255 doesn't make any sense without quoting its index numbers (CV31/CV32) as well, because otherwise "CV323" can be any of at least a dozen different things. Those are listed in DecoderPro files, they consist of three numbers in succession in the CV list, such as "16.0.323", the first two being the index values, the last the specific CV. The setting you're looking for is on the "Function Outputs" pane, scroll down to Aux7, and set it to "PowerPack". - Nigel

Yes, that's one. Some other Zimo retailers are significantly cheaper. How to fit it together - read the instructions 😀 You need both the Staco-3 instructions (come with it or Zimo website) and the decoder instructions (Zimo website). You'll need to attach two wires from Staco to the "positive" ("Pluspol" on some diagrams) and "ground" ("mass" on some diagrams) of the decoder. On a six-pin decoder, both of those are solder pads on the decoder. And then join the two capacitors in series with each other, and attach the pair of capacitors to the other two wires from the Staco. There's a certain amount of: if you can't follow the manufacturer's instructions then don't go blowing up electronics parts. I did say that I didn't know if it would fit, just that from a photo I thought it might fit. - Nigel

New wire means can put green marker pen on the outside of each strand. That ensures the electrons stay inside the wire and don't ping off altering the sound...

I've not got any measurements, but looking at the photos, I'd think the newer Zimo "Stacco" stay-alive circuit with two small super-caps might fit. Probably need to throw out the 6-pin socket to create the space, and then wire direct to decoder. That should give more than enough run-on time to overcome any momentary drops in pickup. - Nigel

Some time ago, I bought a collection of ESU decoder wire in multiple colours. It was moderately expensive for the amounts, but will keep me going in wiring locos for a very long time. It has very thin internal cores, very flexible, solders well, etc.. Unlike some other thin multi-strand wire I've had from other sources.

Dunno, but you could use a multi-meter to trace that connection on the MXTAPS to the decoder positive on one of the decoder sockets, eg. PLUX.

My limited experience of DJM items in 4mm scale has been "new chassis , the DJM one is a disaster". If the Zimo can't be made to run the motor, then start looking at the mechanism. As suggested above, supplying DCC directly to the chip (skipping all the pickups) would rule those out. It also takes out the need for any stay-alive devices at this stage of investigating. Are there any other components on the DJM PCB ? They may be making things worse. Could try turning down the BEMF influence in the decoder CV's, that may help, but at the risk of reduced quality of control. One might find a sweet spot. (if the DJM chassis is like the J94 design, it induces variable BEMF from the motor due to the way the gearing and rods in the chassis can "fight" each other). I suspect it will be as Izzy suggests. There's nothing to be done with such a pathetic little motor. ( I have used a smaller motor on a 4mm scale Wickham trolley, but that's a 4volt radio-control solution to making a small model ).

JMRI/DecoderPro addition of decoders depends on volunteers being interested in contributing the file. If nobody has done the Lais, then only option is to do it yourself, a process which starts from having a decent manual from the decoder maker. You may have insufficient function outputs on the Lais decoder, the description says 6 function outputs. The Zimo recommended by Bachmann has 10 function outputs at full power through the Plux plug, plus logic-level output options. There are other Plux decoder makers around which will be a bit cheaper than the Bachmann-badged Zimo, or the Zimo itself. Though could do with knowing which pin does what on the socket in the class 37 before selecting an alternative (ask Bachmann for some documentation which explains that key information?), but if the Zimo is too expensive for you, you might try a Train-o-Matic for about 1/2 to 2/3rds the price. - Nigel

What's the website .. please 1) do you want to head into computers and semi-DIY stuff ? Because its a very large jump from thinking of buying a Prodigy System. 2) The list is incomplete.... You need to add a DCC system to it. Typical low-cost starting places are "Sprog" or "DCC-Ex". The Sprog is long established small device which requires a computer to operate, comes in a variety of forms, but "Sprog II" or "Sprog III" is probably the simplest to use and understand (fewer issues than the "Pi-Sprog" option mentioned above). The latter is a newer "build yourself" DCC system based on an Arduino and some other hardware (its "push together" assemble, the hardest part being loading software to it). There is a small UK outfit offering "pre-built" setups. The Raspberry PI is standard hardware (though note the new Pi-5 doesn't work with it yet). Any Google search will throw up the first hit for "Steve Todd JMRI Image" to the relevant website. Its a downloadable file to create the Raspberry PI bootup SD card. It is not the only way to run JMRI, though it is a very convenient if you already have a spare Raspberry PI, or want to have a dedicated device for it. You could do without the Raspberry PI, and connect either the Sprog or DCC-Ex to a normal computer running JMRI. (or any of dozens (hundreds?) of other DCC systems could connect). Then there is "how to control things". The Raspberry PI (or conventional computer) could have any of: Screen/keyboard/mouse attached; remote desktop access from another computer; use a tablet or phone running EngineDriver/WiThrottle Apps to control trains. So, quite possible, could work for your trains, but its not anywhere near the same as "buy a system plug it in" that the thread started from. - Nigel

Given that a Prodigy-2 Advance costs around £400-£470, that's a fair sized budget, particularly for a old limited capability system (its a re-badged MRC system from the US, not a Gaugemaster design). Alternative at about the same price which is up-to-date: Roco Z21 (capital Z, black colour), perhaps with optional Roco WlanMaus handset, or can use a Phone/Tablet as input. (eg. Scograil in Ipswich have a Z21 plus WlanMaus for about £475 - odd name for firm, but they've been around for a long time selling European brands). Cheaper Roco z21 (small z, white) might be OK, but it has quite a lot of technical limitations compared to the black Z21. If willing to "take a bit of a punt", then I'd look at TCS' new "LT50" system (around £275). Conceptually the handset is like either the Prodigy or PowerCab handset, but its an up-to-date design, rather than something which is 20 years old. Still a little new in the UK to be sure of how well it performs. There are cheaper options. With the exception of TCS, anything which is US-designed has the problem over "latching" key behaviours for the F2 key being fixed at manufacture, which then compromises how locos are controlled. Which brings things back to European designs, or systems which are a bit of "DIY" in how they go together, or which require a computer in the loop.

The trainTech SC300 is a DCC decoder, so goes on the DCC signal, responds to DCC commands. Which I don't think you currently have if you are directly driving turnout motors from switch levers. It would appear to be an expensive way to control one signal. This approach with a relay and capacitor (or relay, capacitor and four diodes) looks simpler and a lot cheaper. It could attach to the on/off switch in the Cobalt motor, or to one of the switch contacts on the Cobalt lever. https://modelrailmusings.weebly.com/Dapol-signals.html

The problems you have are all at the Dapol signal end due to Dapol's quirky control method. Adding more stuff (DCC Concepts Encoders) at the human input end won't help. Specifically: which Dapol signal do you own ? If it is one of the types which need a single push button (push once to move, push again to move the otherway), then there may be a way with the DCC Concepts levers, but its more wires from lever to signal. The DCC Concepts S-levers have passing contact switch - intended to operate a solenoid turnout motor. Those outputs could be used to move the signal; you need to combine both directions of passing-contact. If the signal gets out of step with the lever, you also need a "reset" push button also connected to the control wire, which push-once will bring the lever position back into line with the signal. Alternatively, you need some of the electronic methods mentioned, which gets around Dapol's quirky/daft/bonkers method of control. Its a fairly simple DIY electronics project to take the output from the Cobalt switches and use those to cause an appropriate pulse to operate the Dapol signal.

If you have "lots" and an NCE system, then these options exist (and probably a few more): a) NCE minipanel, takes on/off switches or push-buttons (pair) as inputs to control the signals. Can also control other things b) Computer interface and any number of alternative control interfaces. c) Various DCC-Concepts add-on devices to offer control over NCE cab-bus.

Depends which version of Dapol signals. Dapol had a period of stupidity in signal design - push button once to change signal, push again to change signal - which means that you can't use a switch (or contacts in a point motor) to change the signal to a known position. Hence the use of external control devices to try to make sense of the silly design.

Yes. It works because you'll have four independent transformer windings (two sets of windings in each Duette, each winding feeding one DC speed controller). So, their return paths are all independent to different transformer windings. That said, there are a lot of reasons to not use Duettes, such as the asbestos content in some examples, probably life-expired components, etc., etc..

I hear this a lot. Then I put a stay alive in an otherwise excellent loco for someone, and their response is "transformative", "now I get why you keep saying its worth doing". - Nigel

An old-style car sidelight bulb (nominal rating of 12volt, 5watt) would be fine on most DCC systems. Car electrics whilst nominally 12v are a lot higher in practise. - Nigel