Tallpaul69

Hi Rich, Love your layout! I know you said "Putting aside for a moment the fact that the fiddle yard for Brent is only able to hold 4 trains in each direction, I have been looking at the locomotive fleet trying to work out what is required to run a full 24 hours service. ", I am intrigued as to how you will replicate "all of the 38 goods services" without spending more time juggling engines and stock, than running trains? Also as I guess you run your clock speeded up to get 24 hours in less than that time, do you actually run to a timetable or a sequence. By this I mean do you run the correct trains in the correct order crossing at the correct places and branch trains correctly meeting at the junction, but ignore actual times (except perhaps for station and yard stop durations)? I am not asking these questions to be awkward but because I have similar problems, and am not too proud to copy other peoples ideas if they work! Best regards Paul!

Yes, I was confused by the statement that the 80000s were based at Acton and the 1958 date. I think that Noel meant that they took trains forward from Acton, and the return trips back to Acton, and stood there waiting their next duty. I assume they worked LE to a shed somewhere at some stage? There was water at Acton, but I am not aware of any loco coal stocks, so any tanks would need to go elsewhere for coal(and any attention!). However, Acton Yard was a freight yard, all the coaches were at OOC. So the use on ECS is still a query! Best regards Paul

No Problem Phil, I need to do more work on the timetable anyway. The first thing will be to finish the second half of the day. Then I need to turn it into a model timetable so that the time table lines read something like:- Train No Loco turn No Stock set No Previous Train No Down Fiddle yard dept. Maidenhead arr. Maidenhead dept. Maidenhead yard dept. Down Fiddle yard arr. Next Train No This will make it clearer what is happening in the fiddle yard. The above will keep me busy for a few days, then I will see what I can do with your train bars idea! There probably is something out there that will do this job, but unless other readers know of anything, I think the time spent trying to investigate the possibilities is better spent getting on with the job. So watch this space, but don't hold your breathe! Best regards Paul

Thanks everyone for your contributions! I tend to go with the paper transfer idea, although I might stretch things a bit and use the standard 4 tank that I have as an alternative to one of my several 61xxs! Best regards Paul

Hi There, Any chance of an update on recent developments on the Layout? I am planning a layout based on the southern end of the branch. It will depict the junction with the relief lines at Maidenhead, the initial curve on the branch and a simplified version of Maidenhead Yard. The station will be just off scene at one end. I pretend that the main lines did not exist, and run the relief lines and branch working timetables with just a token representation of the main line expresses diverted to the relief lines! I saw your layout at an exhibition last year and hope that my effort can be 50% as good! In summer 1962 Old Oak Common was allocated six or so standard 2-6-4 tanks. Do you know if any of these reached the branch standing in for the usual 61xx tanks? Best regards Paul

Hi All, In Summer 1962 six or so Standard 2-6-4 Tank Locos in the 80000 number series were allocated to Old Oak Common. What were these used for? Were they regarded as, and used as, equivalents to the GWR 61xx tanks, or did they have a specific use? Many thanks Best regards Paul

Many thanks Mike, and all other contributors, I think the consensus of information available suggests that the Slough allocation of 16xxs were unlikely to have reached my main area of interest, namely Maidenhead and the High Wycombe branch except perhaps as non WTT trip run from Taplow. I have also concluded that the two allocated to Slough being offered by Model Rail in pristine finish are not realistic! So I will not be putting my hand in my pocket for these. Might think again about the Oxford engine 1627, and getting it renumbered, when I see how the weathering looks. Enjoy your modelling, Best regards Paul

Hi All, I am thinking of buying one of the GWR 16xx tank engines announced by Model Rail in 00 gauge for my 1960-62 layout. Before deciding, I would like to know how the examples at Slough and Oxford sheds were used. Did they share diagrams with the more numerous 57xx tanks or did they have specific tasks? I would have thought that their power classification of 2F as against the 57xx rating of 3F would mean they could not do all the jobs the 57xx could? I am mainly interested in their use west from Slough and on the branches such as Maidenhead to High Wycombe and Oxford to Princes Risborough. Any relevant information will be appreciated. Many thanks Best regards Paul

On a similar note, has anyone dated pics or details of 57307 in the DRS "Cable Thieves" livery on the GW mainline? It would be great to know what its use on the line was, what it was hauling, and the "tail" loco /livery if doing a "top and tail", if these details are not clear from the pic? Many thanks Best regards Paul

Apologies for pushing this thread sideways, but has any one any pics of these 31s on the GW mainline in 1960-63, while they were still ER property but came as far west as Didcot on oil trains from the Thameshaven area? I suspect they also in the same period came to Slough/Windsor/Maidenhead area on Excursions from the ER? Any details or pics of these would be appreciated? Many thanks for any pics or info. Best regards Paul

Hi All, At last I have for you the attached first part of the first version of my timetable that I feel is good enough to present to you! It covers From 04:00 to 13:00 (a bit later for the down line), and is not yet divided into the two hour operating periods that I talked about in my earlier posting. There is probably one or two abbreviations that I have not captured in my footnotes, for which I apologise, and will crack these in a later edition! I hope Phil, that you can use this to see how the mainline fiddle yards might work? The loco and set nos. need more work, as do the freights calling in and dropping/picking up wagons. All trains will circulate a number of times except the Titled trains, of which, because the main Lines are not modelled, there are just a token couple of examples. These will circulate once, pause in the fiddle yards, and reverse for a further run through at the appropriate times. I will issue the second part of the day once I have digested any comments on this first part. Enjoy your modelling, Best regards Paul Thames Valley Main Line AM timetable 1.xlsx

I am looking for information on the whether the "modern" wagons listed below were seen on the GW mainline between Slough and Reading in the following years- 1977,1992, 2007, 2016:- It would be helpful if I can find out whether they more usually ran in blocks or singly? Wagons HOP24/HUO Cemflow/PVC PCO/PCA Cement PFA Container Flat PRA Box I realise that not all these wagons were in use in all the years stated above. I am looking for this information to help decide which of these wagons, and in what quantities to purchase for my 00 gauge layout which may run in the above mentioned years. Many thanks Best regards Paul

Hi Jazzer , just found this thread, which I don't mean to hijack, but am wondering if you kept records of your days out to the west of London? I am interested in any details of operations in the Slough-Reading area 1960-1963. So any details of engines or stock (passenger, parcels or goods) on particular trains would be useful. If you respond positively then I will start a new thread in the Prototype Operation section of RM Web. Sorry, cant remember what I ate or drank on my 60s spotting trips, mainly to Hitchin, Leighton Buzzard and occasionally Denham! Cheers Paul

08s out based at Slough, returned to Southall for fueling on Sundays! Good job this was a 4 track mainline, wonder how long the round trip took? Cheers All, Paul

So here are my thoughts on the various responses to this thread, illustrated by my own model progress! Unfortunately, in my opinion anyone wishing to operate a model of a 4 track mainline in less than say 30ft x 10ft is bound to have to make a lot of compromises. Which compromises any individual can live with, I suggest, are up to that individual, but need to be highlighted, in case they have not realised their existence! The compromise none can escape is the need to shorten train lengths in less than the above space. However, the compromises may differ according to the era chosen to model. Those choosing to model more than one era will have more compromises than the single era modeller. Further , those choosing to base their model on a real location will have more compromises to deal with. That is why I suggested in my post above that, in wanting to make a model based on a real location, in 12ftx9ft, before choosing an era and a location, the modeller look at the relevant WTTs. These will indicate where interesting operation might be found. I didn't get it right first time, I started off planning round Slough in my 12ftx8ft, because I liked the idea of modelling all the loco turns from a small shed. This would have had to be removable for modern eras. I roughed out several versions, but concluded even with the 4 tracks only through the station scenic area and the actual loco shed off scene, I could not make it work. This was mainly through lack of fiddle yard space! So I moved up to Maidenhead. I had decided when looking at Slough, that while I liked expresses roaring through my scene, I could only take so much, and I would not have sufficient fiddle yard space to house for instance, all the named expresses. So in moving to Maidenhead, I decided to modeling the relief(slow) lines rather than the fast lines as the mix of trains was greater, even in the more modern eras that I wanted to dabble in as well as my main target of 1960-2. So I went for the slow lines, at a junction that still exists and was only ever with the slow lines. I am able to timetable some expresses on the basis of problems with the fast lines! The goods yard was never extensive, but one siding was in use into the mid 1970s as an offload point for vehicles for the Ford Motor Co. The goods shed will be removable and the sidings in modern eras covered by removable hardstanding. I have reduced the number of through freights by using the timing of one freight for a train to arrive in the yard, and the timing of a later freight for the train to continue. I have to be careful that a train arriving as a class 4, does not leave in the timing of a class 9, as the consists would be entirely different! The above suits me, but is an individual take. I think we need individual takes on models otherwise we end up with 100s of samey-samey layouts and nothing to be critical of or improve on! In a further post I will put forward my thoughts on automation, which can be a way to run high density of trains, but has many traps and compromises of its own! Best regards Happy modelling Paul

Layout looks good! Can you post a track plan please? Many thanks Pauli

Can I offer two pieces of advice? Firstly, get hold of a Working Time Table (WTT) for the line and see what trains actually ran. You will need to decide what your definition of "Modern" is! Do you mean 1977, when HSTs came to the area, or 1986-92 when all the passenger trains except the long distance expresses were in the colourful Network Southeast livery, or sometime post Privatisation? The most recent that it is sensible to go foe is 2016 as more recently the catenary masts etc. have appeared! You can get WTTS quite cheaply on Ebay and one of a year around your chosen year will generally give you an idea of both passenger and goods traffic, although for earlier times you may need three volumes:- Passenger (Mandatary), Goods (Mandatory), and Conditional. Then you can decide what trains you want to run and that will help you finalise your track plan. But be warned, mainlines are difficult because of the number of trains they need for accurate portrayal although as the years have gone by trains have become more standardised so you can get away with one set of stock running through several times representing different trains! Secondly, Look at a section of RM Web Forum called Skills and Knowledge Centre, particularly the subsection called Layout and Track Design. I have a thread on this that you might find useful . It is called Design Ideas Welcome. It shows the Design process for my 12ft x 8ft railway room. It is based on the slow(called relief by GWR and WR) lines and the start of the High Wycombe Branch at Maidenhead, so is East of Reading. I also like watching the trains run by, but will sometimes do it while shunting the yard. Much of the design work has been done by Phil (known as Harlequin) who has already answered your thread above. My layout has no station because I want to run c1962 steam transition plus more up to date eras with HSTs etc., and station detail changed over the years! What Harlequin's and all the other replies advise you is good sense, so best of luck with your plans! Cheers Paul

Thanks Phil, I will have a look at this with the current state of the timetable! It might work well with my ideas of using cameras to show where trains are. What are the downsides of 3 way points? I think they could be good for saving space? Many thanks Cheers Paul,

Phil, as you will know from your much appreciated design efforts on my behalf, Lower Thames Valley has no room for additional storage loops! Currently, hope to fit two 4/5 coach trains (or wagon equivalents) plus one short train (railcar, auto, or short freight, on each of the 7 loops (ignoring the branch through loop), so get 21 trains which if they are all reversed, makes 42 trains before a repeat. Am encouraged by discussions of cheap cameras in a thread on the Modelling help section, so may go that way rather than the automation route! Am currently playing with the timetable to fit it around the 42 train scheme, so hope to publish that soon, but better not commit to when, as other unexpected modelling problems particularly in loco chipping such as Mazak rot, Lima motor replacement, tend to delay things! Best regards Paul

Keith, Not sure where Macs came into the discussion? I run a windows 10 Dell laptop! Cheers Paul

Hi All, I am looking for information about excursions run by BR between 1955 and 1965 from Bedford to destinations including Kew (for Kew Gardens) and Windsor for a trip on the Thames. I remember going on such excursions from Luton with my parents but the details I have are sketchy. I would like to replicate such excursions on my WR mainline layout but lack details of Locos (black 5s maybe?) or timings and for the Windsor trip exact itineries. For instance I remember a Windsor trip and passing Runnymede on the Thames boat trip, but was this a round trip or did we leave the river elsewhere and rejoin our train that had travelled from Windsor while we were on the river? I guess similar excursions were run from other locations so details of such trips would be of interest. Many thanks Regards Paul

I am working up details for an 00 gauge model of the WR relief lines to the mainlines around Maidenhead c1960. Has anyone made a model of anywhere on this line between say Acton and Reading, or gathered information such as WTTs, Carriage diagrams or Loco diagrams for a future project? Photos of trains particularly freights and suburban passenger trains or details of the train/consist/loco from such photos would be useful. Additionally I would be interested in learning details of the timetable you operated, the compromises you had to live with, and the train formations/locos used? Many thanks Best regards Paul

Hi All, I am looking for information about excursions run by BR between 1955 and 1965 from Bedford to destinations including Kew(for Kew Gardens) and Windsor for a trip on the Thames. I remember going on such excursions from Luton with my parents but the details I have are sketchy. I would like to replicate such excursions on my WR mainline layout but lack details of Locos (black 5s maybe?) or timings and for the Windsor trip exact itineries. For instance I remember a Windsor trip and passing Runnymede on the Thames boat trip, but was this a round trip or did we leave the river elsewhere and rejoin our train that had travelled from Windsor while we were on the river? I guess similar excursions were run from other locations so details of such trips would be of interest. Many thanks Regards Paul

Thanks for your ideas Guys, Firstly re the switchover from DC to DCC:- The duel control version of the test track is not a long term set up, just until I have tested all my existing locos and then it will be purely DCC so doesn't have a control box or anywhere to house a switch except by making such a box up and not sure it is worth the effort! Comments re feed back confirm my thoughts, so thanks for that. Secondly, re lima motor replacement:- I am afraid I am not into intricate model bashing, so will have to take a safer but possibly more expensive route unless I find someone to do motor replacement for me! I know you will say, you will love it once you try, but I have plenty to keep me occupied without starting more modelling work, that might divert me from main objectives (i.e. I have to keep my eye on the bigger modelling picture!). Thanks anyway. Cheers Paul

Firstly, apologies for not updating for several weeks but a number of things that I will not bore you with, but nothing horrible, I am glad to say, have got in the way of timetabling. I am now well on the way to producing the mainline timetable but the work on it has prompted some rethinking on a number of working assumptions:- 1) Having realised very early on that I would not be able to run a 24 hour cycle timetable in real time, I planned to run at 4 times real time and thus run 8 hours of timetable in 2 hours, and over three 2 hour sessions run through a whole 24 hours. This still seemed ok after producing the branch timetable, but moving to the mainline, I soon realised that this was unrealistic. For instance, running 4 train movements , 2 up and 2 down that occurred within 10 minutes in 2.5 minutes is unlikely to work. 2) So could I run the busy periods in real time and speed up the quieter times? A bit more work on the timetable showed that a mainline, even if it was only portraying the slow (or as the GWR and WR termed them, relief lines), and the joining or terminating branch traffic, the only quiet periods were during parts of the evening and overnight. 3) So I have decided that my timetable will run form 4am to midnight. The 20 hours will be divided into 10 off 2 hour sessions run in real time. Thus if I run one session in the morning and one in the afternoon it will take 5 days to run through a day. The two hour sessions will be run as two separate hours with (say) a 15 minute break between. A rule will be that while stock and locos can be added/removed between 2 hour sessions this will not be allowed except for problem items between the two hour sub sessions. Realistically life will get in the way, so it might be several weeks before I am able to repeat a cycle. This will ensure I am not board with running the same thing repeatedly! 4) in addition as a change, after completing a 2 hour session, I will I will sometimes set two expresses running round and round while I have a shunting session. I will also to up the storage capacity, try to arrange up and down freights to stable in the up and down loops particularly overnight, and where possible between 2 hour sessions. Will this work, I hope so, but when the timetable is completed, then we will see?? Best regards Paul