Natalie

Working in prison as Reception nurse exposed me to large amounts of drink and drug addicts and totally opened my eyes to the level and depth of the problem. Believe when someone is rattling it is not a pleasant thing to watch. I also had the chance to talk to these people and had my eyes totally opened. As Black Rat says 'never be judgemental' as you never when your own circumstances might change and before you know you find yourself in the same state

My article is based on the London Midland Carriage Working Programme for Summer 1986 as issued and that is how the formation is listed. I do not know if the formation was subsequently altered as I do not have any of the amendments. On what basis do you make your claim if I may ask?

Mk3s were 'escaping' to the West Country from the Summer 1985 timetable I believe. I believe the use of otherwise idle West coast sets to provide holiday services to the West Country has long been a feature of the West Coast coach diagrams. Mk2 sets were also utilised on some of the other workings. I have Summer 1986 at hand and the following operated (there were still some blue/grey Mk3a around at the time- though in decreasing numbers): WB300 Mk2d BSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RKB, Mk3b FO 1V47 2326 FO Manchester Piccadilly- Paignton 1M37 0820 SO Paignton- Manchester Piccadilly WB302 Mk2d BSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RKB, Mk3b FO 5V36 0635 SO Euston DCS- Milton Keynes 1V36 0715 SO Milton Keynes- Penzance 1M82 1540 SO Penzance- Milton Keynes 5M82 2234 SO Milton Keynes- Euston DCS MA300 Mk2d BSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RKB, Mk3b FO 5F49 0700 SO Longsight CS- Liverpool LS 1V49 0840 SO Liverpool LS- Paignton 1M65 1625 SO Paignton- Liverpool LS 5H47 2230 SO Liverpool LS- Longsight CS For the record the usual weekday utilisation of the Mk3 circuits in Summer 1986 was as follows: WB300 Mk2d BSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RKB, Mk3b FO WB302 Mk2d BSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RKB, Mk3b FO These worked the Manchester Pullman between Euston- Manchester Piccadilly WB303 4 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RBR, NEA WB304 4 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RBR, NEA These worked the Liverpool Pullman between Euston- Liverpool Lime Street WB305 Mk2d SO, 7 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RSM, Mk3a FO, Mk3b FO, NEA Worked between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly WB306 Mk2d BSO, 5 Mk2d SO, 2 Mk2d TSO, RBR, Mk3a FO, Mk3b FO, NEA WB307 Mk2d BSO, 5 Mk2d SO, 2 Mk2d TSO, RBR, Mk3a FO, Mk3b FO, NEA Worked between Euston and Liverpool Lime Street WB308 Mk2d BSO, 5 Mk2d TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3a FO, NEA WB309 Mk2d BSO, 5 Mk2d TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3a FO, NEA Worked between Euston- Blackpool North and Euston- Liverpool Lime Street WB310 Mk2d SO, Mk2d TSO, 5 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3b FO, NEA WB311 Mk2d SO, Mk2d TSO, 5 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3b FO, NEA Worked between Euston and Manchester Piccadilly WB320 3 Mk3a, Mk3a RFB, Mk3b BFO Worked Glasgow Central portion of Clansman from Euston WB321 NHA, Mk3a FO, 5 Mk3a TSO Worked Inverness portion of Clansman from Euston- alternates with WB324 WB324 NHA, Mk3a FO, 5 Mk3a TSO Worked Inverness portion of Clansman from Euston- alternates with WB321 WB322 6 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3a FO, NHA WB323 6 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3a FO, NHA WB326 6 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3a FO, NHA Worked 110mph services between Ayr/ Glasgow Central and Euston WB328 Mk2d BSO, 5 Mk2d TSO, RKB, 3 Mk3b FO, NEA This worked the Lancashire Pullman between Blackpool North and Euston LL300 4 Mk2d TSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3a FO, NEA Worked between Liverpool Lime Street and Euston LL301 Mk2d BSO, 7 Mk2d TSO, RBR, 2 Mk3a FO, NEA Worked between Liverpool Lime Street and Euston MA300 Mk2d BSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 3 Mk3b FO, RKB, Mk3b FO Worked Manchester Pullman services between Manchester Piccadilly- Euston MA301 2 Mk2d TSO, 6 Mk3a TSO, RBR, 2 Mk2d FO, NEA Worked services between Manchester Piccadilly- Euston MA302 Mk2d TSO, 5 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RSM, 2 Mk3a FO, NEA Worked services between Manchester Piccadilly- Euston CL300 Mk2d BSO, Mk2d SO, 4 Mk2d TSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, RBR, 2 Mk3a FO, NEA CL301 Mk2d BSO, Mk2d SO, 4 Mk2d TSO, 3 Mk3a TSO, RBR, 2 Mk3a FO, NEA Worked between Barrow/Carlisle - Euston CL320 6 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3a FO, NHA CL321 6 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3a FO, NHA CL322 6 Mk3a TSO, Mk3a RFB, 2 Mk3a FO, NHA Worked 110mph services between Carlisle/Glasgow Central- Euston As can be seen there is considerable variety in the formations diagrammed in these booked diagrams including mixed Mk2/3 sets- especially on the Liverpool circuits where there was an apparent restriction placed on some of the services being formed of a maximum of 12 coaches with no more than 6 to be Mk3 vehicles- not sure why this was but a few of the circuits broke this by having 7 Mk3 vehicles allocated- possibly they were reduced to 6 in reality. Note that Euston and Oxley had no Mk3 sets nor were any Mk3 sets diagrammed to work to Birmingham or Wolverhampton- except on a Sunday when WB309 was diagrammed to work a return Euston- Wolverhampton trip prior to working Euston- Manchester. No Mk3 sets were diagrammed to run along the North Wales Coast either. Full details of the circuits mentioned above (as well as the Mk 1, Mk2 and Mk3 Sleeper sets involved in WCML London trains during Summer 1986) are available for download from Robert Carroll's excellent 'British Railways Coaching Stock' yahoo group.

Is it possible that the service was was one of the temporary/emergency services introduced on the ECML following the collapse of Penmanshiel Tunnel on 17th March 1979? I seem to recall reading in Modern Railways at the time that new E&G sets were pressed into service on some of these workings. Just a thought. EDIT- As the replacement alignment bypassing the tunnel was opened on August 20th 1979 the above hypothesis is highly unlikely.

Some links to photos online that show bsyp liveried units: First is of clacton set 621 which was the other known of its class that carried the very rare bgsyp. Very rare shot of Hastings units 1016 shown at Petts Wood in March 1968. 4-EPB 5205 at Petts Wood in May 1967 2-HAP 6021 at Petts Wood in May 1967 2-HAP 5608 at Liss in June 1968 4-COR 3108 at Clapham Cutting in July 1967 4-COR 3103 at Southwick c1969 4-CEP 7121 at Orpington in January 1968 4-CEP 7132 at Petts Wood in October 1967 4-VEP 7701 at Clapham Junc in June 1967 4-VEP 7707 at Wimbledon in June 1967 4-VEP 7708 near Woking 1967 4-TC 420 at Wimbledon in May 1970 4-TC 422 running as a 3-TC at Kemp town in September 1967 4-REP 3001 at Vauxhall in July 1967 4-REP 3002 at Wimbledon in May 1967 AM2 240 at Grays in September 1969 AM3 036 at Glasgow Central in March 1967 AM4 036 at Newton Road LC

As promised here are some notes from the 1965 and 1966 Railway Observer regarding blue repaints: January 1966 RO: New standard sets in the series 046-70 are now in use. All these sets are painted unlined rail blue- with the inset lower front of the driving cab solid yellow, showing the set number n black on the near side. This set number also appears in much smaller white figures on the blue on the off side. May 1966 RO: The frames for the new batch of AM10 units, 074-095 had only just been laid at Derby C&W Works at the end of February. (NCJ note- could it be that this batch were the first ones to receive the revised bsyp - with the larger yellow- when compared to the earlier units?) Until these are available, five AM4 units will have to be used, and are being specially painted in blue to match the AM10s. First two repaints noted are 028 and 032. June 1966 RO: The five AM4 sets mentioned as being painted in unlined blue to fill in at Euston for forthcoming AM10 sets are: 002/5/28/32/38. August 1966 RO: LM Region: Further blue painted sets are 313/9/37/9/40 (note: is this an error ? Should it have been 013 etc?) A visit to Eastleigh Carriage Works on 18th June 1966 revealed driving trailer (recently converted) S76331 of 4-TC unit 401. The coach was painted in matt rail blue with the new BR emblem at the front end. (note: this coach was only in 401 until 10-67 when it swapped places with spare S76270) MLV S68001 had recently been repainted (note- no livery details given though though my list records it as getting bgfye c7-70) September 1966 RO: GE section units 004, 214 and 404 are the first to receive blue livery. It is thought that at least twelve AM4 sets are now in the new livery. October 1966 RO: ER sets 005, 102/3/33/43, 216/8/9, 408/34/52 and SR sets 1103, 4127 and 5763 have been repainted plain blue, whilst Clacton set 625 sports rail blue and grey livery. (There is a pic of the unit here taken at Colchester in January 1968 showing it in blue/grey with yellow gangwayed door only.) I need to dig out the issues from 1968 onwards to extract the info from them but do have 1970 available: June 1970 RO: Scottish Region emus: Rail blue with yellow panels: 028/32/39/77/79 Rail blue with full yellow ends: 001-4/8-11/15-18/20-22/25/27/29-31/33-38/41-45/47/53/61/68-70/78/83/87/90-110 Of the bfye units above, 008/10/90/92-110 received yellow ends carried round to include the motorman's doors, 092-110 were delivered in this livery and 092-94/96, 100/106 have since been repainted in the standard livery. This would leave 005-7/12-14/19/21-24/26/40/46/48-52/54-60/62-67/71-76/80-82/84-86/88/89 either still in original Caledonian blue or unreported or withdrawn. July 1970 RO: Liveries of Glossop line units are as follows (motors taken as representative of whole unit): Blue with yellow panels: M59401M Blue with full yellow ends: M59402/4-8M M59403M was in Horwich works undergoing overhaul and was expected to reappear in blue with full yellow ends and M suffix. September 1970 RO: Scottish Region: The following units are now in blue with full yellow ends: 005-8/12-14/19/23/24/26/28/32/39/40/46/51/54-58/60/62/63/65/67/71-74/76/81/84-86/88-90/95/97/98, 102/104/105/109 Compared to the list in June 1970 there are a number of differences. Is the September list additional units in bfye- (it would appear to me to be so)? if so this leaves the following units still to be reported on: 021/22/48-50/52/59/64/66/75/80/82. It would also mean that bsyp existed still only on 077 and 079 and units with the wrapround full yellow ends on: 010/099, 101/103/107/108/110. October 1970 RO: The following Altrincham line vehicles (AM1) remain in gsyp: M28579/80/87/94M, M29653-5M, M29240/41/50M Blue with full yellow ends: M28571-74/76/78/81/85/88/89/92/93M M29231-33/35/38/39/42-44/47/48M Blue with small yellow panels: M28590M, M29246M, M29251M. Blue trailers are: M29650/56-58/60/62/63/66-71M

Plenty of them available in the town that bears part of your address! What is missing though is the legs/knees (amongst other parts) to be able to wear them and not look a mess.

My three cats- Mystery, Shadow and Swiper - 'two missing in action' Much loved relatives- Aunty Nora, Harry (my stepdad) When six weeks school holiday felt like ages- not five minutes as it does today. Knees that don't lock up or give way! Brute trollies. As has already been said- proper sized wagon wheels. Penny chews. Incidentally Gwiver there are plenty of rockabilly bands with slap bass- they are the norm- the likes of the Rhythm Boys come to mind.

I have added the new dates for the TC, REP and VEP units just to give a date as to when the livery was applied. Apologies that it all seems to bunch together- I've tried formatting it but when I post it it all disappears! The interesting unit is 3-TC 304 which was actually 2 spare cars. According to Ashley Butlin's 'British Multiple Units-Vol4' it carried the number 304 until the TBS 70843 was reformed in 'new' 4-TC 432 in Feb 1975 with the DTS 76331 (which actually started out in 4-TC 401 until May 1968 when it swapped places with 76270) remaining spare until it was withdrawn in July 1990. This unit is not listed in John's list so I am unable to give a date for repainting into blue/grey. 304 is never listed anywhere so it has to be treated with suspicion that the number was actually carried.

The aim of the list was to share the information that I had. I can understand the logic of continuing with the well known loco codes but personally feel that the use of bsyp etc is quite cumbersome on the whole list- especially when you bear in mind that things like VEPs are on there and start going into the world of NSE, Connex etc- that is when it gets fun! But for the purposes of discussing a green to blue transition then I am ok with it as I have altered to. I have some information that was posted in the Railway Observer (of the RCTS) from about 1965 onwards which is very useful regarding liveries but as with any journal that relies on observations alone can not be regarded as 100% reliable. It does serve as a good start though. I shall post these later as I think they are likely to be of use. Now do you want me to add to my list above or write it out - as in the following example (which is the entry from Dec 1966 not a made up one for illustrative purposes): December 1966 RO- Diesel- M50752, E51280, M51604/33/41/69, M51871/87, E56441, M59617/42/38/50, M59741/43/58 have been repainted in blue livery Electric- Further sets to receive plain blue livery are 054, 226/93, 318 and 441. Clacton set 608 is now blue and grey.(which could have been one of the two (I think) units that carried small yellow panels- bgsyp... You will note that the state of the cab end (assuming the vehicle has a cab of course!) is not noted at this time- it is possible that the full yellow ends have not yet started to filter through by the issue of the RO- it all depends on when the observations were actually sent in. Also bear in mind the first bfye repaints had the yellow wrapped round to include the cab doors- how do we describe those- bfye(wrap)? The AM10s are difficult too as when (some/most?) first delivered they had a small yellow panel confined to the jumper cable area which was later extended to include the whole are below the window handrails- but is still a small yellow panel- or is it a half yellow end? Problem is at the time most people with cameras were too pre-occupied with steam locos and missed out recording a fascinating period in unit livery evolution.

That is the format that I had the list sent to me in. I did not devise the codes and am merely reproducing the list in the format that I received it in. If you want to change all the codes then be my guest but I'm not about to sometime soon. How would you deal with blue/grey with full yellow ends? The list is supposed to a help- if it is confusing then I can just as easily remove it. EDIT- I have altered the codes as requested.

I can't take any credit for the list or information within it- that is by John Atkinson and Keith Gunner who obtained the details at the time. Maybe we should standardise on the format to increase its usefulness? John uses the following livery codes: BE Blue with small yellow panels BG blue/grey with full yellow ends BY Blue with full yellow end GY Green with full yellow ends.

The picture above (of AM10 061 near Crick in March 1967) shows the earlier version as applied to the first few units (not sure as to exact numbers). The slightly later version saw the yellow panel extended to include the whole cab area below the window handrails with a slight wrap round onto the bodysides. Incidentally the AM10 units were the first to be painted in the new rail blue livery from new.

The list below represent those SR units that carried blue with small yellow ends. The details are taken from a list sent to me by John Atkinson and is based on the paint dates carried on the unit ends. Dates shown are the date of outshopping in blue with small yellow panels. The second date shows the application of a replacement livery. The following codes are used: bsyp= blue with small yellow panels bfye= blue with full yellow ends. bgfye=blue/grey with full yellow ends As far as is known no LAVs, HALs or BILs ever carried blue with small yellow panels. None of the TC or REPs received full yellow ends on their blue livery. 4-BUF 3078 c1-67bsyp 28-5-69bfye 4-COR 3103 4-1-67bsyp (last in bsyp) 9-6-70bfye 3108 27-1-67bsyp 24-2-69bfye 3110 27-9-66bsyp 17-6-69bfye 3114 26-1-67bsyp 11-3-70bfye 3121 14-9-66bsyp 4-5-69bfye 3124 12-6-66bsyp 25-7-68bfye 3132 20-12-66bsyp 29-1-69bfye 3133 2-11-66bsyp 24-4-70bfye 3134 c12-66bsyp 4-9-68bfye 3147 1-11-66bsyp 2-2-70bfye 3152 18-8-66bsyp 30-9-69bfye 4-SUB 4117 5-10-66bsyp 22-2-69bfye 4121 15-12-66bsyp 19-7-69bfye 4124 7-11-66bsyp 26-3-69bfye 4126 24-11-66bsyp 30-4-69bfye 4127 11-7-66bsyp 17-1-69bfye 4284 26-1-67bsyp 13-6-69bfye 4288 17-1-67bsyp 31-5-69bfye 4296 2-1-67bsyp 29-5-69bfye 4298 7-9-66bsyp (last in bsyp) 20-10-69bfye 4358 31-1-67bsyp 7-5-69bfye 4365 21-10-66bsyp wdn 4367 23-9-66bsyp 14-4-69bfye 4369 11-1-67bsyp 17-4-69bfye 4375 1-9-66bsyp 3-4-69bfye SR 4-EPB 5177 4-12-66bsyp 26-2-69bfye 5205 9-2-67bsyp 20-8-69bfye 5212 10-11-66bsyp 20-9-69bfye 5215 20-7-66bsyp 23-5-69bfye 5219 18-8-66bsyp 29-3-69bfye 5241 7-10-66bsyp 20-1-69bfye 5243 15-7-66bsyp 1-4-69bfye 5246 20-10-66bsyp by10-69bfye 5253 29-12-66bsyp 4-3-70bfye 5258 14-9-66bsyp 13-9-69bfye 5260 19-9-66bsyp 5-3-69bfye BR 2-EPB 5739 21-11-66bsyp 26-8-69bfye 5753 17-1-67bsyp 19-8-70bfye 5755 19-9-66bsyp 22-3-69bfye 5760 3-2-67bsyp 22-10-69bfye 5763 1-7-66bsyp by8-69bfye 5764 19-7-66bsyp 25-7-69bfye 5765 19-9-66bsyp 8-4-70bfye 5772 11-11-66bsyp 4-4-70bfye 5773 24-8-66bsyp 24-1-69bfye 5775 20-10-66bsyp by10-70bfye 4-BEP 7003 12-12-66bsyp 4-7-69bgfye 7008 11-10-66bsyp by10-69bgfye 4-CEP 7104 29-11-66bsyp 17-2-69bgfye 7106 4-11-66bsyp 30-4-69bgfye 7107 24-1-67bsyp 4-6-69bgfye 7108 4-11-66bsyp 31-10-69bgfye 7110 21-12-66bsyp by10-69bgfye 7121 23-11-66bsyp 5-2-69bgfye 7132 13-1-67bsyp by2-70bgfye 7146 12-1-67bsyp 29-5-70bgfye BR 2-HAP 6005 11-11-66bsyp 27-8-70bfye 6006 22-7-66bsyp 14-8-70bfye 6010 11-1-67bsyp 4-9-70bfye 6012 7-11-66bsyp 8-10-69bfye 6016 8-66bsyp 4-6-68bfye 6018 10-8-66bsyp 6-6-69bfye 6020 (first in blue) 19-7-66bsyp c8-70bfye 6021 25-10-66bsyp 6-69bfye 6027 15-12-66bsyp 6-9-69bfye 6030 15-12-66bsyp (last in bsyp) by5-71bfye 6036 21-7-66bsyp 18-6-69bfye 6037 29-9-66bsyp 25-6-69bfye 6038 25-8-66bsyp 4-2-70bfye 6041 27-10-66bsyp 12-8-70bfye SR 2-HAP 5608 17-8-66bsyp 2-10-69bfye 5610 21-11-66bsyp 19-9-69bfye 5614 6-9-66bsyp 29-7-70bfye 5617 17-8-66bsyp 11-569bfye BR 4-EPB 5305 2-9-66bsyp 7-11-68bfye 3-TC All three delivered new in bsyp during mid 1967 301 new5-67bsyp c5-70bgfye 302 new7-67bsyp 29-5-69bgfye 303 new7-67bsyp 28-8-69bgfye 4-TC All delivered new in bsyp 1966-67 401 new10-67bsyp (first in blue/grey)c5-68bgfye 402 new8-66bsyp 15-10-68bgfye 403 new8-66bsyp 24-9-68bgfye 404 new8-66bsyp 17-6-68bgfye 405 new8-66bsyp 30-7-68bgfye 406 new8-66bsyp 12-68bgfye 407 new8-66bsyp 27-1-69bgfye 408 new8-66bsyp 8-11-68bgfye 409 new9-66bsyp 4-9-68bgfye 410 new9-66bsyp 20-8-69bgfye 411 new9-66bsyp 11-12-68bgfye 412 new9-66bsyp 23-10-69bgfye 413 new10-66bsyp 18-3-69bgfye 414 new10-66bsyp 26-11-69bgfye 415 new11-66bsyp 25-6-70bgfye 416 new10-66bsyp c5-69bgfye 417 new11-66bsyp 24-9-69bgfye 418 new11-66bsyp 12-68bgfye 419 new11-66bsyp 14-7-70bgfye 420 new11-66bsyp c9-70bgfye 421 new12-66bsyp 6-5-70bgfye 422 new12-66bsyp c29-10-70bgfye 423 new2-67bsyp 21-5-69bgfye *ran as 3-car 2-67 to 7-67 424 new3-67bsyp (last SR Blue XP unit) 23-11-70bgfye *ran as 3-car 3-67 to 7-67 425 new1-67bsyp 23-7-69bgfye *ran as 3-car 1-67 to 7-67 426 new2-67bsyp 8-1-70bgfye *ran as 3-car 2-67 to 10-67 427 new2-67bsyp 9-6-69bgfye *ran as 3-car 2-67 to 7-67 428 new3-67bsyp 8-8-70bgfye *ran as 3-car 3-67 to 7-67 Note- 423-428 initially delivered formed DTS+TBS+DTS awaiting TF which was added later in mid-1967 4-REP All delivered new in bsyp during 1967 3001 new3-67bsyp (first in blue/grey) 1-1-69bgfye 3002 new3-67bsyp 1-4-69bgfye 3003 new3-67bsyp by2-69bgfye 3004 new5-67bsyp 28-2-69bgfye 3005 new6-67bsyp 2-2-70bgfye 3006 new5-67bsyp by2-70bgfye 3007 new6-67bsyp 28-4-69bgfye 3008 new5-67bsyp (last in bsyp) 3-70bgfye 3009 new6-67bsyp 10-69bgfye 3010 new7-67bsyp c5-70bgfye 3011 new7-67bsyp 12-69bgfye 4-VEP All delivered new in bsyp during 1967 7701 new4-67bsyp 25-8-69bfye 7702 new4-67bsyp 11-8-69bfye 7703 new4-67bsyp by11-69bfye 7704 new4-67bsyp 23-9-69bfye 7705 new4-67bsyp 31-7-69bfye 7706 new4-67bsyp 3-6-70bfye 7707 new4-67bsyp c5-69bfye 7708 new4-67bsyp 12-5-70bfye 7709 new6-67bsyp 1-7-69bfye 7710 new6-67bsyp 14-7-70bfye 7711 new6-67bsyp 26-11-70bfye 7712 new6-67bsyp by11-69bfye 7713 new6-67bsyp 9-9-70bfye 7714 new6-67bsyp 16-10-70bfye 7715 new7-67bsyp 7-7-70bfye 7716 new7-67bsyp 10-69bfye 7717 new7-67bsyp 30-6-70bfye 7718 new7-67bsyp 17-6-70bfye 7719 new7-67bsyp 6-12-69bfye 7720 new7-67bsyp 14-8-70bfye Hastings DEMU 1016 15-10-66bsyp 15-8-69bgfye 1033 24-8-66bsyp 17-6-69bgfye Hampshire DEMU 1103 5-7-66bsyp 30-10-68bfye 1106 by12-66bsyp by11-69bfye 1113 21-11-66bsyp 19-12-69bfye 1114 9-1-67bsyp c2-4-69bfye Class 501 164 -66bsyp ?date bfye I hope the above list is of interest/use and welcome any additions or corrections. EDIT: Of use!??! I'd say that will take on biblical proportions for more than a few observers, a huge thanks for this, Natalie. 'CHARD EDIT I have altered the entry for 501 unit no 164 to reflect the above format. I hope this is OK. Natalie

That is an absolutely gorgeous beast- with an appropriate name too.What a shame they never appeared, they would have been a magnificent sight on a Summer Saturday extra or a heavy freight. I would go as far as to say that if 91000 R A Riddles had been built, she (he?) would be sitting on a heritage railway today. Now being the nosey mare that I am I have this urge to find out more about them- time to look in my books on BR Standards.

It does need some tweaking mainly in the positioning of the transhipment sheds. These are to be located at 90% to the main lines. The access road that comes over the bridge on the main line will run along side the transhipment shed (the side you have the narrow gauge on) and the access gate would be from there leading to a loading/unload area or access to the transhipment shed (over the narrow gauge if necessary). Need to add the blast sidings too. I'll have a tinker with it and see what I can come up with.

The Salisbury/Chilmark idea is not on ice as such- it is just not reached the stage where plans can be finalised and wood cut. I just need to sort the narrow gauge/standard gauge tranship area out first.

Whilst this is certainly true when 41001 and 41002 were built, according to Marsden in "HST Silver Jubilee" (Ian Allan 2001) it was during the 1974 classified overhaul at Derby when it was decided to reclassify the HSDT as a multiple unit (class 252) rather than class 41 locos and Mk3 coaches that one of the power cars (number not listed though) being fitted at the same time with a 3 phase alternator to supply 415V to supply each coach's air conditioning unit directly (follow a decision change in how the ETH would be supplied to the coaches)- rather than each coach being supplied with 850v dc from the loco to its own motor alternator set which then changed it to 415v for the air con unit etc. It does not mention whether the prototype coaches had their motor alternator sets removed or whether the conventional ETH was removed from the two prototype power cars. The standard BR ETH and the 415v version do have different connections I believe (the three phase 415v having an 'upside cross' on the blanking plates). As the three phase system was fitted to the class 252 as part of the ETH trials it is possible that both standard 800-1000v ETH and the three phase 415v systems were fitted. It maybe possible by looking at the ETH connections on 41001 it may be possible to ascertain which ETH system it currently has the external pipework for.

The ex-Metropolitan Railway box at Liverpool Street on the Circle line is still standing although not in signalling use anymore. The junction to the GER at Liverpool Street was a very shortlived affair (installed 1875) and had been removed well before the end of the 19th century. Diagrams for the Met Box for 1909 do not have said junction on them.

Green Lanes Crossing (just outside Portsmouth) had a facing connection running straight into the two exchange sidings/loop over the ungated level crossing over Rat Lane (the same road passing the north end of Hilsea Halt platforms) leading straight into Hilsea Armaments Depot. Lockerley (on Salisbury- Romsey-Eastleigh route) had 2 dead end arrival sidings on the up side (facing Dean Hill) installed in 1943 in connection with the provision of an American supply depot as did Milford Junction for Milford Goods in Salisbury. The connection into the supply depot at Lockerley trailed of these two sidings. The access route in the depot also had a faciing connection straight off the down into the depot. it is possible that there were more exchange sidings within the security gate but I don't have the relevant Pryer track layout drawings for this line- but do have a signalling plan. It is possible- but not likely in view of its military status- that the internal layout of the supply depot shows up on large scale OS Maps of the time. Now to take a look at Old Maps. I do take your point on board however and think it is a fair one but will take a look at the hundreds of SWD signalling plans that I have (trying to see what happened during the WW2 period where possible) and see what I can find. The above plan is based on Littlebrook and Crabtree Crossing which admittedly are both on the SED. I have a further plan (version 6 Kelly if you can upload it- I don't seem able to) which shows the mainline layout based as Chilmark was- with a trailing connection- not seen any with single slips as you describe (the nearest was a straight set back from the up line, over the down with no connection- straight into the tunnel and into Woolwich Dockyard)- the method would be a simple trailing connection and trailing crossover road such as Dinton and Deans Hill. The one alteration that has already been made to the plan is the removal on the LoS board on the up at the Saisbury end- it seems that any up train would have set back over the crossover road. Another option would be to have a connection out of the sidings onto the up for departing trains- that could either be a ground frame- more likely as this is how Dinton controlled the far end of the up goods loop that served RAF Baverstock- a less likely option is to put another box there which would impact on the signals shown by that needing at least its distant mounted on our box's up home signal (and removal of up starter). It is not a scale plan- the distants were shown for clarity only.

No confusion on your part. All I've done is essentially lost the trailing connection out of the sidings on the up. Your down-up trailing crossover was simply off stage. Plan is based on Crabtree Sidings (near Belvedere)- though no level crossing and Littlebrook which was the exchange point for Dartford Power Station (with a modification in the branch direction). A SR ARP type box is envisaged in the region of 20-25 levers. SR rail post signals are envisaged although some LSWR examples might also appear. My thoughts for era are for 1966/67 as this allows Warships on Waterloo-Exeter trains as well as the last vestiges of steam. 1953/54 is also attractive as it allows for a wide variety of kettles but also 10000/1, 10201-3 on some of the Exeter services.

"Discussed a little with Natalie" !! I think I've done more than discuss it a little! But it is certainly a location that ticks all the boxes- lack of third rail to be compensated by Bulleid Pacifics and green coaches moving onto Warships- including of course D827. Let's think of Chilmark but with a slight twist- mainly in having some exchange sidings a la Dean Hill as they would enhance operation I believe and also require that the traffic would need to be tripped by an MoD loco to/from the depot.

That's because they were armament depots rather than airfields.

There are the RAF depots at Chilmark, Dinton and Dean Hill where BR (ie mainline railway company) delivered appropriate goods in standard gauge wagons to the exchange sidings from where the RAF loco collected then and took them onto site and the transhipment shed where the loads would be transferred into a narrow guage railway and then taken off into the location of the storage bunkers-often on the site of an old quarry. I assume Hilsea was worked on similar lines. The nature of such locations means that details of the internal railway systems were blanked out on contemporary OS maps but the details can be found if you keep your eyes open and know where to look. The TeleRail DVDs on Chilmark and Longriggs Military Railways are useful for mid 1990s.