Roy L S

If Hornby haven't even seen the first Engineering Prototype yet as I recall the mag saying then I would suggest there is zero prospect of the Duchess arriving in September. When the first EP does arrive they will need to review it, very likely tweak the tooling, further EP, then deco samples to review and approve before production can even be contemplated. Then 6 weeks for shipping on top of that, so is all likely to take many months and I would think it may actually be well into 2024 before they arrive.

And....I too have just received e-mail notification that my BR blue 08 has arrived in stock and will shortly be prepared for despatch....

No, I do not misunderstand, I have been modelling for a very long time. The initial TT120 set launch was obviously intended as some kind of "hero" products to entice people in and it was priced accordingly, however you cannot establish a new scale based around A3s, A4s and "glamorous" coaches alone. Actually look at Bachmann and Dapol's OO steam ranges and your statement couldn't be further from the truth. In fact in terms of "big fast" the only steam ones Bachmann are currently listing are an A1 and a V2, all the rest range from heavy freight locos through mixed traffic types to tank locos. Dapol's current OO steam offer shows no "big fast" types, the largest is a Manor - firmly Mixed Traffic. From both manufacturers diesels and electrics represent a cross-section. In N, as far as steam goes all Bachmann currently list are mixed traffic types, rolling stock not glamorous and while Dapol's range does include express types, it is balanced with heavy freight and mixed traffic and tank locos at the other extreme. Nothing glamorous about Dapol's Gresley corridor coaches, they could be found on any kind of train, I have even seen pictures of a single coach forming a branch-train in the Borders, the same lack of glamour applies to their GW and southern coaches. Again, diesels represent a mix, not just "glamorous". Both diesel and Electrics from major manufacturers include the likes of workaday multiple units. Yes of course the established ranges from different manufacturers complement each other and allow a more representative layout and nobody is realistically expecting Hornby to achieve anything like that in TT120 even in the medium term, my specific concern is the seemingly lengthening timelines and lack of clarity about what is coming and when. Without it I fear that people's patience will last only so long and they will turn their backs on TT120. Roy

I don't think it is especially helpful to compare the supply v's expectation of N in the early 70s with the same for TT120 today, the World has changed very significantly in the intervening 50 years. In any case, I think at launch, Farish committed to adding a new item of rolling stock every two weeks or so, it grew very quickly into a decent range. True. locos were fewer, but were at least compatible with the rolling stock that was being made available. They produced "Super Liveway" N track too, plus a battery controller of sorts and sets. HOWEVER critically, they were not alone in the market, there was already Lima, Minitrix and Peco, each producing their own locos, rolling stock and track. Farish many not have produced diesels or MK1 coaches then, but Lima and Minitrix both did (we won't mention the quality of Lima but it was available). I began modelling in British N in 1975 when just into my teens, and based on my own personal experience, far from not touching N, my local model shops stocked it comprehensively alongside OO, it was readily available and there was choice. So with respect, your comparison with where N was then and Hornby TT120 is now is invalid. British N was never doomed to failure, it was even at the outset quickly supported by a number of manufacturers whose ranges grew to provide (by the standards of the time) a comprehensive level of products. By comparison, aside from Peco covering track, accessories and in due course the odd wagon, Hornby is on its own and success of TT120 as a UK modelling scale is much more in the hands of them and their ability to bring a coherent range of models to the Market at speed and it is here where for me question marks are starting to develop. From launch, Hornby have a certain "golden" period to bring in the TT120 range and develop the scale to a point where it is coherent and sustainable, and for sure I believe they are still within that "window" at the moment. However there is a dependency on a steady stream of products arriving and so far Hornby have managed that, but what concerns me slightly is the lead times for some of the other products announced seemingly slipping and there being maybe a year and a half or more before further locos follow the 08 as appears possible now. So IF Hornby do have other products up their sleeve and in development and IF these will arrive sooner, then I feel it would be in Hornby's interests, not least because they have the Market to themselves at present and minimal competitive risk, to lower the cloak of secrecy and tell their customers what other unannounced products there will be and when. For myself, and to be honest, I embraced the idea of TT120 and was keen to have a go alongside my other primary modelling interest (N) but nothing I am reading currently encourages me to spend any more or pursue the small layout I was planning further. Perversely, from where I am viewing things at present, it seems that Hornby having the British TT120 Market pretty much to themselves may actually turn out to be a bit of a two-edged sword... Roy

A shame about the duplication, I hope it doesn't impact sales for either manufacturer too significantly. I am looking forward to the N Gauge Society model personally, interesting to find out it has been produced by Sonic. Roy

The fact that there is another run of J39s due June-July time, still tender driven and with 6 pin decoder socket (nothing wrong with that it is an excellent tender-drive) would indeed suggest no loco-drive/sound upgrade is imminent for that loco (and yes, if I recall correctly it was Colin Allbright who said to me that without the B1 there would have been no J39). That said, the Dapol B1 was out of the equation long ago, having been thoroughly trounced by the Farish one, and I don't see any reason why a loco-drive B1 from Farish shouldn't feature at some point in the future, but with the availability of the Next 18 and sound fitted Stanier tender already, I would have thought a Black Five might be along before. Roy

I have previously been critical so nice this time to say full credit to Bachmann for an excellent cross-section of models this quarter, the re-runs of Mk1s in "bread and butter" liveries in particular will be very welcome, and I think their availability is very likely to do a lot to boost N sales generally. The Ivatt 2MT with sound upgrade is bound to be popular, it is such a versatile loco, and along with 5MT, 4F, J39 and Fairburn starts to bring a little more depth to the range of steam locos. Hopefully we will see the Jinty and 64xx next to improve this still further. A totally new tool steam loco would have been very welcome, but with such a large suite of existing tooling it is perhaps understandable that Bachmann would choose to focus on those models first, hopefully something totally new will come along before too long. Roy

Class 325 maybe?

It does say June/July so even if not finished for a few week yet and shipment say early June, July still looks perfectly possible. Roy

Just checked and I see that the RevolutioN website is still showing the above delivery date estimate. Hopefully this means that production is close to concluding and they'll soon be on the boat. Roy

I was thinking the same, it is very notable that rightly or wrongly expectations are now so low as far as Farish is concerned that there is no longer much if any frothing at all. Assuming the announcement is on Wednesday at the usual time, I don't know that I will be able to dial in to watch anyway, so will catch up on the announcements at my leisure afterwards in all probability. My expectations aren't that high, I would love to see a new tool steam loco, but I am not sure that is realistic any more, I know the quarterly method of announcements means theoretically anything is possible, but the cold hard truth is that there hasn't been a totally new steam loco since the 8F, which first broke cover mid-2018 and was released in November 2020 so that's five years from first announcememt Roy

My two pre-ordered vans arrived today, I must say that they are very nicely made and well finished, posed here with the brake-van on my part finished just for fun mini-diorama.. Of my initial pre-orders just the 08 to go now... Roy

Just been notified that my two box-vans are on their way to DPD which is positive 🙂. Hopefully more news of the 08 will follow before too much longer (fingers crossed). Roy

My two vent-vans are also in the process of being prepared for despatch which is good news, but like others news as regards the 08 would be welcome. It looks like the GBRF and BR blue ones are still due for "Spring" but the Schenker one now shows "Summer". Incidentally there seems to be something odd re: pricing and it seems that Hornby may have put up the prices of TT120 items but it is confusing. If you go to the "Locomotives" pages the price against the thumbnail images there is different to what shows when you click through to individual items, for example the 08 is now showing will a list price of £142.79 on page 1 of locos, click on the item and price shows as £118.99 on the individual selection. Does this mean a price hike is on the cards or is it some kind of error I wonder? Roy

I hope assembly of the production models is a bit more carefully done than some of these examples, note the horizontal gaps between cab moulding and the lower loco body, and also (I have mentioned this elsewhere) the raised Ross safety valves are not properly seated in a number of the shots. Yes, I know the pictures are cruelly enlarged, but even still there looks to be room for improvement assembly wise. Roy

Thanks Hobby, that is really helpful. It seems to run very nicely indeed, hopefully it is geared so as to allow for slow speed and shunting, as I suspect a fair few will find their way onto "inglenook" type layouts. It also appears to confirm that the loco has indeed been tooled for a while now (as with some other items in the clip) which suggests delays are very likely solely down to production capacity. Hopefully we will see the 08 shortly, I am thinking mine will probably end up being resprayed plain black, in which case I hope Hornby leave the ladders on! Roy

Just something that dawned on me, the TT120 08 is supposedly due for delivery within the next two months but I haven't seen any footage of one actually running yet. Has anybody else and if "yes" can they point me to it? Many thanks Roy

I ordered an Easterner set without any clear vision for the use I would put the loco and coaches to in a model railway sense, but the A4 is a favourite, and that was reason enough, especially at the price after the Collector Club discount. However, even though the prices do look very keen at present, unless someone were absolutely desperate to start in TT120 regardless of any other consideration, personally I can't see the point in ordering from what is available simply because it is there and nothing else is. Each to their own I guess! Roy

Ah, I see what you mean, probably just me not grasping what you were saying properly, now I understand your point. In the absence of info to the contrary the 08 being one of the two 0-6-0s cannot be ruled out I suppose. It is hard to fathom why Hornby won't just come out and say what the loco(s) mentioned actually are instead of talking in riddles, especially given that there is no direct competition (and from what other manufacturers have said unlikely to be any for the foreseeable future).

Judging by the deco-samples that have been produced and Hornby's own customer service desk advising me of delivery end May/start of June independently of what SK has said, personally, I feel reasonably confident the 08 has been tooled and production is either finished or close to it. Put it this way, if this isn't the case and that came out after all that has been said, the harm it would do to the credibility of Hornby and TT120 could be pretty damaging and I don't think they would risk that.

To an extent I would agree, but there has to be a degree of suitability in the first place. The 08 has quite a lot of internal volume to the body and I would be amazed if that is not exploited to the full for traction-weight, in which case the chassis wouldn't be a lot of good for anything bar a very large saddle-tank and possibly not even that.

Not with outside frames and flycranks it won't. Aside from a few early 0-6-0 types from the l8kes of Sturrock, Kirtley etc, as steam loco chassis applications will actually be pretty limited I would say.

Given what we are told about the target demographic, I wouldn't be surprised (looking at some of the OO entry sets) if there is less concern about wagons/loco being era-compatible. It would be nice if there were, but I wouldn't necessarily expect it. I am left wondering if demand and further runs of the launch sets has impacted production capacity for other things, from one perspective (the trainset market) this could be viewed as a good thing, but from another (modellers wanting a range of products) not. However this is just a thought, I am not saying it IS the case.

If the first 0-6-0 steam loco is only just being tooled (as SK has from all accounts said) unless there is another such steam model being secretly developed that is close to production, then I wouldn't think that very likely within the timeframe. The only prospect of a goods set for the Autumn that looks likely would (I would suggest) involve the 08 shunter, and I do recall that SK didn't seem to rule out the possibility of a smaller set involving that loco at some point when asked.

Hi Les I don't think anything in Hornby's sequence of designing a model is new or different from another manufacturer, but I feel pretty sure what we have seen in the Hornby TV series is a somewhat modified and indeed needs to be as it is primarily for entertainment. For example the "I think an XYZ123 loco would be a good idea" would be much more in depth, with costings and sales projections rather than "OK sounds good let's do it" being the basis of a decision. Similarly I find it unlikely that one person would work exclusively on a single project from end to end, they would work on other things too, and I think it is fair to conclude that a degree of what is broadcast reflects a somewhat utopian version of the world for the camera. Turning to the 08, right at launch of TT120 there were pictures of what I understood to be undecorated samples and so by that stage the technical issues would have been ironed out. That said, there is actually nothing that sophisticated about the spec of the model anyway, in fact it looks very basic with a cheap 6 pin decoder socket and 3 pole can-motor. There are no lights, no Next 18 socket, no provision for sound, so a relatively simple model for any manufacturer worth their salt. Another consideration is that for Hornby to have claimed it would be arriving around the time of the second TT120 Mag (it says so in it) then any issues of design would have been in the rear-view mirror and to meet that timeframe it would have already been in production when the range was launched. As Neil rightly says above, to date we are still seeing deco samples with ladders on them, so unless they have been approved for production like this, we are yet to actually see any production models. Obviously Hornby will not be immune from manufacturing issues in China, and that being the case, much better to err on the side of caution in what is made public. For an April/May delivery to be achieved the models must already be manufactured, packaged and on the boat, yet that hasn't been said by anyone as far as I am aware and final models haven't been seen... The difference between the TT120 situation and Farish/Dapol examples you provide above (annoying and bad for reputation as both were/are) is that N was then a very well-established scale, neither was looking to promote a new scale from scratch with the models you mention part of the launch-range. At the risk of another romp into "cliche land" it is said that you never get a second-chance to make a first impression, and people's patience will only last so long, so far there has been a lot of "spin" and comparatively little delivered, so for me (and many) the jury is still out. I hope Hornby pull it out of the bag, nobody wants to see the venture fizzle out.. As to your J94s Les, as we sit here now at the start of April 2023, we only know that one 0-6-0 is (maybe) in tooling but not whether this is the 57xx, J94 or something else, so knowing what we do about lead-times for development and production of models in general, Spring 2024 would look like a pretty optimistic timeframe. Personally I would love it if an 0-6-0 was delivered by then (not fussed which of the two although a 57xx has more utility) but I am not holding my breath, hence my decision to "park" the TT120 layout plans for now. Roy