Roy L S

Personally I don't think the horrible "Santa" livery including different colours on the solebar helps and I will wait until I see the Vanfit in "proper" BR liveries before reaching any conclusions, but it appears the RRPs will be somewhat less than the Farish models and it does have NEM coupling pockets which Farish vans and mineral wagons do not currently. Roy

Sadly I have to agree, I would imagine the green ones will sell well enough, but the other liveries I am not sure about. The sound upgrade has been "in the works" a while and for me it has always been surprising that Bachmann would prioritise this over things like the Class 37 and for steam the Duchess/WD Austerity as far as a sound is concerned. Roy

I have one of the new sound fitted Ivatt 2MTs (in my case 46447 as I remember it pre-restoration at Quainton Railway Centre). I am really pleased with it, the addition of sound was certainly a worthwhile enhancement and I think the Bachmann sound-file is excellent. Given the cost of a Zimo Next 18 sound chip is in the region of £110 on it's own, I actually think that especially at a discounted price of typically a tad under £230 the sound fitted model is excellent value too. Roy

I would hope more 47 liveries will follow, especially earlier ones, and I absolutely agree that the 37 with it's long life and huge range of variations in detail and liveries simply has to be high on the list. Roy

I had hoped (but not expected) that given the length of time since that last all new tool steam loco was released we might have seen something new in that respect to round off 2023, but on the plus side there is still a good volume of N coming through which is a big improvement on where things were not so long ago. As has been said elsewhere the Class 47 sound upgrade has been expected for some time, so isn't a huge surprise, but it would have been good to see the popular early BR two-tone green with small panel and BR blue (pre or post-TOPS) included rather than just more modern liveries. The military liveried EFE J94s were nice to see, and had they appeared in the initial run I would have chosen one of those as an initial purchase but having already purchased two, another would be a bit of an indulgence, however I am tempted as they are lovely little models. The phrase "nothing for me here" does spring to mind, but I haven't done too badly this year in terms of new items so I can say that without any huge element of disappointment this time. Roy

I agree re: the colour, but the image I am looking at could otherwise be absolutely anything!

From what I understand Bachmann have no plans to enter the TT120 space.

Some of the Great Central types would also fit with this idea, I am thinking J11 and ROD 2-8-0 in particular, but I would not expect such a "policy" to be adopted as there would be also quite a risk attached. Good sellers in the OO range would probably be where the process of deciding on further new locos would start from including steam, I would expect them to continue to be looking more towards "low risk" models for the next phases, including prototypes from the "Railroad" range i.e. stalwarts like the GW Large Prairie, 4F 0-6-0, Jinty etc. However any of that is a long way off and does make assumptions based on what "modellers" would probably like to see - we have already been told that the traditional "modeller" is not Hornby's primary target, so they may make entirely different marketing/sales assumptions and choose entirely different locos as a priority - things like the FLIRT. Roy

It just didn't occur to me to put it there, the uncluttered space above the weight lured me in🤔!

Having followed John YouChoos suggestion above, I set to it and dismantled the chassis to get to the installed speaker which is tucked under the PCB. I was surprised when I removed it to find that there is no kind of resonance chamber attached, it just sits diaphragm side down in the chassis, "sealed" to that by some tacky "stuff" and sound emits (notionally anyway) through holes in the bottom of the chassis. Below is a picture of the speaker I removed in the foreground, together with the Sugarcube I replaced it with behind (complete with such a chamber as will be noted). The second picture shows the new speaker installed by soldering speaker wires to the contact tabs on the underside of the PCB, I routed the wires up through the aperture in the PCB where the rear of the motor is and thus to the speaker terminals. The speaker sits very nicely on the traction-weight as can be seen. However this is not how it ended up because Klutz as I am I failed to allow for one of the stiffeners in the roof of the Unit so the body wouldn't go on over the speaker! I therefore extended the wires and relocated the speaker immediately behind the cab-bulkhead and this time everything was fine 🙂 - forgive me not taking another picture but I am now too busy running it! Having tested the new setup, with the Zimo chip at default settings there is no "crackle" whatsoever and it runs and sounds very nice even without the body on, and once that is in place the sound is even better. As has been said by a few people it is the loco body that provides much of the amplification rather than anything else which is indeed fortunate. However by way of what I hope is received as constructive feedback, I would implore Revolution Trains to look again at the chassis design for the 120, because with seating units in place the benefit of the body as such a sound chamber will to a large extent be lost. It would seem perfectly feasible (for example) to install a better and beefier speaker with sound-enclosure above the chassis in the guard's compartment without any visual impact. I am going to leave it there, I am not encouraging anyone else to do as I have done, but for me it has provided what I consider to be a proper "fix" that doesn't need to compromise on the sound's volume and as the model is in every other respect exquisite I am now happy. Roy

I thought sound versions were announced and the rolled back on instead sticking with the 6 pin decoder socket? It would be a logical one for the full sound upgrade and would save me doing the same work as JBM37404 mentions on my current one. That said for me it would have to be original two-tone green. Roy

Haven't the sound-fitted 101s been and gone? J39 was I understand very close but got delayed as they weren't happy with the running of test samples. Class 14 is due this month or next according to the Bachmann website so must be on a boat somewhere. Again according to the Bachmann website the RES Class 47 47795 "Royal London Society for The Blind" is due November/December. Ditto Totnes Castle and the Colas one. Same source - HEA Feb/Mar 2024. I haven't checked the rest but the website can probably provide insight. Regards Roy

Hi John Thank you, that is very useful information which validates my suspicions about the speaker used. I really like the model in every other respect so I'll be on to you for a Sugarcube 8 in due course and just have to be careful when I install it. I hope Revolution Trains are gracious enough to take this feedback on board and if nothing can be done about the 128s at least factor it into the specification, design and fit for the sound components for the 120 which I, and many others I know are keenly awaiting. Regards Roy

Off topic slightly, but am I right in thinking that the Bachmann/Farish/EFE Winter announcements will be due next week? The last 3 months sure has flown by and my wallet is only just recovering from the Autumn releases 🤔. Not that it would stop me from finding the money if something I really like gets announced mind and I live in perpetual hope of a brand new V2 one day..... Roy

Thank you, I will take a look.

Hi Charlie I appreciate you taking the time to share all of the above, it is all very interesting and informative and of course I am very aware of your extensive knowledge and experience with absolutely everything DCC sound related. What has still not been explained (and this isn't I appreciate something you will necessarily be able to answer) is why the Zimo MS580N18 decoder I purchased with the YouChoos sound project loaded worked perfectly at default settings as supplied not just in the Farish locos tried which typically have Zimo decoders fitted in sound versions anyway, but also the Rapido Class 28 which is set up for an ESU decoder (in my case the two I have came so fitted) only the Revolution 128 has the sound-distortion problem and this is why I remain convinced it is the rating of the speaker that is the issue. The level of work you have put into the sound project specifically for the Revolution Trains 128 is clear from what you have listed above and to be honest I wasn't aware of it. We all have our preferences and mine has always been to use Zimo wherever possible because of their reputation for high quality and resilience which has served me well for many years. That is not to say I don't have any sound locos with ESU decoders or have anything against them, and had I known about your sound file for this loco I might well have gone for it, so bringing the option to my attention is very much appreciated. However, of course the issue for me is that I have already spent the best part of the price I paid for the loco on the Zimo one and it is hard to justify another £130 ish (at a guess) for another decoder to fix the issue! I accept that nobody was aware that the issue would arise with the Zimo decoder, but I am now in a position where I wouldn't want to even change the speaker for a better rated one that will suit it because of the risk of invalidating the warranty, so I am a bit stuck really, and with all due respect to Mike Hale I do not consider knocking down CV 266 to minimise the "crackle" a satisfactory solution. For others though who haven't made a decoder or sound-file choice I am reckoning (knowing the quality of the Legomanbiffo sound files) you may have more than a few enquiries! Best wishes Roy

As mentioned above, I have taken the time this morning to do some swapping about of decoders between locos. Having already tried the Zimo MS580 in the Class 31, I know that worked fine so next I have taken one of my Rapido 28s and swapped the ESU decoder from that to the 128 and vice versa. I reset the MS580 to default and set the 128 off, as expected the "crackle" returned big time. I put the MS580 in the Class 28 and it runs perfectly with the Zimo, without any sound distortion whatsoever. However the really interesting finding is that the 128 with the Class 28's ESU sound decoder installed (exactly how it came out of the 28) also runs without any speaker crackle whatsoever. Then, even more interesting, I took the Zimo sound decoder from my Farish C Class and put that in the 128, and off it chuffed (seeming very strange) also with no crackle. I have checked the paperwork and that decoder, while a Next 18 is an MX658 so an earlier series of decoder. For completeness the last checks I did were the MS580 in the C Class and giving it full acceleration off it chugged without any crackle or distortion whatsoever, although the sound of it changing gear was interesting, I then put the MX658 in the Class 28, again off it chuffed with no distortion. So, in summary of the three chips tried in each of the three locos, all worked perfectly in the Farish C Class and the Rapido 28. The ESU and the MX658 both worked fine in the 128 without any discernible "crackling" but in that loco the Zimo MS580 (at default settings as tested in all locos) crackled like crazy. It seemed that the sound settings in the first two may have been a tad quieter. What does this point to? I value others thoughts too, but what it strongly suggests to me is that the MS580's output is indeed higher, and while the speakers in the C Class and 28 are up to the job, the 128's is not. Roy

I too have successfully used the MS500 paired with a Microcube 5 speaker (0.5 watt 8 ohm rating) in a variety of projects and this has worked fine without any distortion even when (under YouChoos advice) increasing CV266 to 80 to improve volume. Just like the MS580 the MS500 is rated at 1 watt audio at 8 ohm, so as far as I can see the output shouldn't be an issue for a typical Sugarcube speaker given that a decent lower rated microcube works without distortion. I am asking Youchoos for their thoughts as to whether the sound file as loaded on the MS580 for me should ordinarily overpower a typical Sugarcube and cause such distortions. Regards Roy

As a long time customer (no other connection) I would trust YouChoos default settings as they have been doing sound on Zimo for donkeys years, and it is fair to say that personally I have fitted these to a good variety of locos both "plug and play" (6 pin and Next 18) and hardwired using a variety of different makes and sizes of speaker. However notwithstanding that, in this particular case I have taken CV266 right down to 40 which while much improved hasn't completely eliminated the problem. As yet so far unexplained is why at default settings the decoder and sound file performed perfectly in the "plug and play" Farish Class 31 which also has a Sugarcube speaker, and failed to in the 128. Indeed my very first thought when initially encountering the "crackle" issue was to check the chip in another loco so as to rule that out as the culprit. I may well experiment further today, reset the chip to default settings and try it in a range of other N18 "plug and play" locos I have, Rapido 28 for one, to see if any present similar issues and while I am doing that I will try the 28's ESU chip in the 128. Regards Roy

Hi Mike Well, I am somewhat taken aback - speaking as a purchaser of the 128 and potential 120 customer too I find that a really disappointing response. The simple answer answer to your question is because it is a bit of a "band aid" fix that doesn't address the underlying issue which is the speaker, as I have already mentioned this Zimo chip with that 128 sound-file loaded worked perfectly well in a Farish 31, so it does seem a bit lame to blame them. Also, just to mention that although much improved, even with the CV value reduced to 40, my second 128 still has a slight crackle under certain conditions so isn't completely fixed. If you are saying that fitting a lower quality speaker than you might have is acceptable because not everybody runs sound then I am truly speechless - based on that logic why go to the trouble of fitting a 24 pin decoder socket to the 59 when not everybody uses DCC - surely a cheaper 6-pin one would do just fine?? It would also I think be fair to point out that from comments here and elsewhere it does seems to be the case that this speaker issue isn't isolated to a single type of chip or sound-project as is implied above, so further investigation most certainly does seem more than warranted. As I have already said, the model is in every other respect lovely and a credit to all involved in it's development, just a shame that this one thing has become an issue. Regards Roy

The sound-file I have on mine was pre-loaded by YouChoos, it is of their Class 108 modified with sliding doors rather than slam ones (apparently I haven't tried that function). The 108 has essentially the same engines but with lower power rating than the 128 which of course could and did often haul a tail-load hence needing the extra oomph. I am quite happy with it, but whether another may be "better" I couldn't say as I have never heard a real 128 and is probably subjective anyway. On the issue of QC I think a bit more balance is needed here as the 128 out of the box, lovely and really well designed though it certainly appears to be, is certainly not in many reported cases free from issues for the sound-user. The speaker crackle while possible to all but "fix" by reducing the CV266 master volume should not be there and it shouldn't be necessary to do that, I have tested the same Zimo sound chip in another sound enabled Next 18 loco (Farish Class 31) at the default sound setting and it was perfect - no crackle at all so there definitely is a speaker issue to investigate. Opinions about what are "good" or "bad" will obviously anyway vary with experience, and no manufacture would claim to be able to deliver 100% of perfect models in any given batch - that just isn't realistic with mass production. My experience over the last 12 months has been mixed: - - I have had to return two Rapido Class 28s out of three (one to Rails and one to Rapido) with a failed ESU sound-decoder (a common fault). - One out of two Sonic J50s went back to Rails for replacement due to poor running. - Two EFE J94s recently received are fine on analogue but I await micro-decoders to test them on DCC. - I have purchased a non-sound Kernow Golden Ochre Farish 31 (the one I used for the test mentioned above), two sound-fitted Farish 4F 0-6-0s and a Farish sound-fitted Ivatt 2MT - all perfect. - I received my first 128 with a speaker-crackle which Ben and Simon very kindly swapped for another at GETS last weekend, but sadly the replacement had the same issue. What is more important to me is the response from the manufacturers to a given issue that is identified. Here, and to get back on topic, talking specifically of the case of my 128, the issue was speedily acknowledged by the Revolution Team and a commitment made by to investigate. For that to be done thoroughly will take time, so I am happy to wait, they are enthusiasts themselves and were clearly disappointed when I spoke to them - they want to and I am sure will get to the bottom of it. In the meantime run my 128 at reduced volume almost free from crackle until a "proper" fix is advised. Roy

Yes, just very gently get your fingernails underneath in the gap between body and chassis and it should ease out slightly then up. Be aware of the way round in relation to the chassis, apparently it only goes on one way round.

It is a "solution" I read about and tried yesterday, I shared by e-mail with Simon at RevolutioN although he may of course have already reached the conclusion through other means too. One point I would wish to stress though, is that while this is a "fix" of sorts and may satisfy some people which is great, it is only achieved by reducing CV266 down from default of 75 (to in my case 40) which pretty much eliminates the "crackle" but at the expense of making the sound quieter. I tested the chip in a Next 18 Farish Class 31 when at original settings and there was no distortion from the speaker, so unfortunately my conclusion remains that at least some of the 128 speakers as fitted aren't fully up to the job. In saying the above, of course it is early days and RevolutioN who are a very small team need time to fully investigate and possibly go back to the factory, I am sure we will hear from them in a more "official" capacity when they have done so. On the positive side, speaker issue apart, I think the 128 is a gorgeous model, beautifully detailed and finished with a really well designed and smooth running mechanism, all of which which bodes well for the 120. Roy

I would suggest the copper strip (more likely phosphor bronze?) "prongs" are part of the pickup assembly taking current from the bogies to the PCB, similar in concept to a number of other models such as the Rapido Class 28.

Out of curiosity, seeing the beautifully done interior of Dan's coach - there's no bed - where did he sleep? 🤔