Roy L S

Please don't be so patronising, I wasn't asking for pictures, I was asking if there was any update on the deco samples. The project page of the website has been the same for a while, looking a bit deeper the December Newsletter I see actually said hopefully they would be received February. Now all things are fluid at the moment, that is understood but especially as the anticipated date has passed surely there will have been some be some indication from the factory as to whether they are they are close are weeks/months behind? Sorry to have the temerity to show an interest ask a question. Roy

I did that Ben, and that was the reason I have asked on this Forum. It is quite a while since the EPs broke cover (6 months or so) and there hadn't been an update regarding the deco samples, just that they would be next. The liveries have been decided on and we have seen details and indeed based our choices on those so it seemed reasonable to ask the question. Regards Roy

Having seen the EPs at TINGS last year I was wondering if anyone on the RevolutioN Team could advise when they hope to receive decorated samples of the 128s, it's gone a bit quiet of late but I know that doesn't necessarily mean things aren't happening. Thanks in anticipation. Roy

Didn't spot that, I must take a closer look

If we are talking locos, I think it is about identifying the right prototype for N and understanding that it won't necessarily mirror what OO modellers are after. for one thing (and I think this may already have been mentioned) there are a lot of "collectors" of OO i.e. those whose models will remain in their boxes or in cabinets. I am not convinced that the same is true of N to anywhere near a similar extent. Then, the N market is probably about a quarter to a fifth the size of N so any selection of model will have to have a wider appeal in the smaller Market, meaning less "niche". I doubt very much a GT3, Fell or the one-off larger Clayton prototype would fit that bill. The "King" would have appeared a good choice perhaps, but as Grahame has said, with Hall, Grange, Manor and Castle all available plus the "baggage" from the DJM King debacle the model would appear tainted. So, what to go for? I would say for steam something like a ROD 2-8-0, an Ivatt "Flying Pig" Mogul, or in diesel/electric terms maybe a "Baby Deltic" 304 EMU or possibly a Hastings DEMU, all unlikely to be covered by a mainstream manufacturer but likely to still appeal to a wide enough N audience. Of course the key question is whether KR would entertain an N model as a stand alone project and only they will know the answer to that. How about testing the water with a wagon and what about the Palbrick? Never available RTR in N, no kits either apart from a 3D print body for a Peco chassis, all the CAD work done for the OO variant, likely to attract multiple purchases by single buyers if the price point is right.... Roy

Hi Woodenhead Thank you for pointing out my error - now corrected . To be honest I have enough locos and rolling stock to last me well into my dotage and then some, so I am pretty much in the same situation. I can also (as Bachmann are it seems) keep myself occupied by fitting sound to existing models, the size of the forthcoming Zimo MS500 will put smaller locos into scope, and also more diesels very easily using the 6 pin version. However it is always nice to have something new, even if only 1 or 2 locos a year, so I am hoping Rapido and Sonic will fill the void for steam if Bachmann choose not to add to their portfolio any time soon. That said, I would have seen a new "Peak" as an absolute no-brainer and one to launch before anyone else does a "land grab" on it. Regards Roy

Pretty much my thoughts too. I had seen mention that a 1st Gen DMU like a 117 might be in the offing based around the drivetrain of the 128, and that would appeal right through from about 1960 into the 1990s and preservation beyond that. However we know where Ben and Mike's area of knowledge and expertise is substantially based, and the two models announced certainly fit well with that, hopefully both will do well. I do reflect that as a result of RevolutioN we have seen a lot of products that would never have otherwise seen the light of day in N, and in that respect it has been good for the scale as a whole regardless of era. That said, I do also begin to ask myself if this has contributed to Bachmann seemingly being more reluctant to invest significantly in new N products now, instead looping back round to upgrade existing and established models. If this is true, then the impact has gone beyond just the niche or modern items and to their portfolio as a whole. As far as transition diesels are concerned, most of the more significant classes have been picked off by either Farish or Dapol with only the 21-29s and 22 23s left (if one is to ignore the class 15 and 16 as just too "niche") so there is no big "prize" left anyway, but will Sonic pick up the slack as far as steam locos go if Bachmann are scaling back? There are many steam models there still to pick off and judging by sell through of the 8Fs no lack of demand. I mean who would have ever dreamed of a Jones Goods RTR in 00, yet Rapido are doing one!! Oh and of course huge congratulations to RevolutioN for a thoroughly deserved N manufacturer's award. Roy

That looks very nice indeed, 68961 is one of the two I have on order so good to see a production sample. Hopefully still on for a Q2 delivery or thereabouts. Roy

HI Les I have hardwired a baby Zimo chip into my 04, and it is hard to see where a stay alive could fit to be honest. It runs OK without on well laid clean clean track but bears absolutely no comparison to the NGS Hunslet performance wise. Personally I would say that in the 03 or 04 any thoughts of stay alive would involve an integral decoder/board in just the same way as the Hunslet. As a retail "offer" as opposed to the NGS one where the Society members benefits from a model delivered essentially at cost, I am not sure it could be achieved at a sensible RRP, after all the 03/04 are now retailing at £129.95 (£110.45 with max discount) just with a DCC socket, even without lights the price with DCC and stay alive on board would undoubtedly be significantly higher - what would people be willing pay? Another £15 on RRP or more very likely? As an aside, looking at the bonnet dimensions of the Hunslet, it would seem that there is now a coreless motor around that would fit in smaller tank locos like the J72, but again DCC on board as an integral part of the design seems the only viable way to deliver what the Market is unquestionably now demanding - DCC. Regards Roy Roy

Having put sound in an 08, I ended up permanently coupling a runner wagon with pickups in the form of a shunter's truck, two tiny decoder size wires the front of the loco to the said wagon with suitable weight has given a decent pickup footprint and pretty much eliminated stalling on any pointwork I point it at. Roy

The level of comments following this quarter's announcements is probably indicative of far lower expectations as far as the Farish range is concerned. Admittedly the sound 08 was a pleasant surprise, I expect most had expected DCC ready but no more. What I find disappointing is along the same lines as Steven B above, no new releases of existing tool models, there are now only three steam locos actually in stock at Barwell and another 11 with no arrival date yet provide (and on the list for some while). I have been told that the 5MTs are likely to arrive towards the end of this year, early next so presumably Fairburn, 4F and J39 will be even later. I am pleased to have a couple of Sonic J50s on order to look forward to, the jury is out on whether I continue to wait for the sound fitted 5MT, I have had it on order a long while and while appreciating cost of everything is going up, if in scope for another price rise, a further 8% on top in March will likely cause me to cut and run sadly. Bachmann have said their Farish Brand is something they are proud of and I have no reason to doubt that, but the slow trickle of things coming through now doesn't feel at all healthy for the furthering of British N. Roy

Thanks Tom, albeit the whole quarterly announcement thing seems to be going a bit pear-shaped with the 03 and 04s now being listed for Q2. As with last quarter I am not going to get myself too excited, I expect the meagre pickings to continue. I'd be happy with sensible dates for the existing "Awaiting" announcements TBH. Roy

Some regions fare better than others, for example the LMS and therefore BR LMR is pretty well covered, taking into account releases since circa 2000 I can list the ones below, the main issue is current availability and whether we will see re-runs or upgrades of tender-driven Farish locos. In terms of performance, I really can't find a lot wrong with the latest Farish coreless motor locos and most of the tender-driven were OK too, with Dapol a mixed experience, newer models being much better, the Sonic 56xx runs beautifully. Union Mills locos are robust powerful haulers and I think slow running has been improved in the most recent (new motor?). All those with an asterisk have a DCC socket. Bachmann/Farish: - Jinty*, Fairburn*, 4F 0-6-0*, Ivatt 2MT tender loco*, 8F*, Black Five*, Scot*, Jubilee*, Duchess*. Dapol: - Ivatt 2MT Tank. Union Mills: - G2 0-8-0, 7F 0-8-0, 2F 0-6-0, 3F 0-6-0, 2P 4-4-0, "Cauliflower" 0-6-0, LNWR 4-6-0. Plus BR Standards: - Bachmann/Farish: -3MT Tank*, 4MT Tank*, 4MT 2-6-0*, 5MT 4-6-0*. Dapol: Britannia, 9F. GW: - Bachmann/Farish: - 64xx Pannier*, Castle*. Dapol: - 14xx, 57xx Pannier*, Manor*, Grange*, Hall*, 28xx 2-8-0*, small Prairie. Sonic: - 56xx* Union Mills: Dean Goods 0-6-0, Collett 0-6-0, "Dukedog" 4-4-0, "City" 4-4-0. Peco:- Collett 0-6-0*(DCC fitted). Southern: - Bachmann/Farish: - C Class*, N Class*, Merchant Navy*. .Dapol: - Q1, M7, Terrier, Schools 4-4-0*.(Promised) WC Pacific*. Union Mills: - T9 4-4-0, Q 0-6-0 I think, plus another 0-6-0 tender loco? LNER: - Bachmann Farish: - J39* and B1*, A1* and A2*, plus WD 2-8-0* many of which went to the ER. Dapol: - B17*, B1*, A3* and A4*. Sonic: - J50* (Soon to be released). Union Mills: - J25, J26, J27, J39 and J38 0-6-0s, D20 4-4-0, D11 "Director" 4-4-0, D16/3 4-4-0, B12 4-6-0. There are gaps but it's still a reasonable selection, even if you discount Union Mills which can actually scrub up quite well. Based on the above list I would flag the following omissions: - LMS: - "Crab" 2-6-0, Stanier 2-6-0, "Flying Pig" 2-6-0, Patriot, Princess. BR: - Standard 2MT 2-6-0 tender loco and 2-6-2 Tank, 4MT 4-6-0. GW: - Large Prairie, Mogul, King. SR: - Lord Nelson 4-6-0, Rebuilt MN, Rebuilt West Country. LNER: - V1/V3 tank loco, L1 Tank Loco, J72 Tank Loco, K3, K1. However on reflection (and having typed all of the above) this is probably not the best manufacturer or thread to move this any further on in . Roy

Hi Ben I am happy to see what Sonic come up with and I would not expect steam to be on your "to do" list for reasons you have given previously. I would love a 1st Gen DMU to feature, hopefully a suburban type like a 117 or something like the 21/29 - there are plenty of transition DMUs especially on the list plus the fab wagons. I am looking forward to my Bo-Rails as well as my 128, so no complaints here if you keep right on with non-steam and leave that to others, I just wish Farish would wake up a bit.. Regards Roy

Hopefully people on here do appreciate that Ben, but you make a fair point, in fact equally there are probably many who do not appreciate that models are largely hand assembled. That said, I am sure the process is helped by a range of assembly jigs for valve-gear etc. I would question whether the same argument holds quite to the same extent for a simple 0-6-0 and it would be lovely to some more of those - there being plenty of prototypes still to go for. Or even perhaps something like a Robinson 2-8-0 with comparatively simple outside motion. Regards Roy

Not to forget the Baby Deltic too!

I think in the case of RevolutioN it is much more to do with Ben and Mike quite understandably primarily focussing on the models they are familiar with, hence we have seen some rather lovely EMU models amongst others. They freely admit steam is not their area of knowledge/expertise, however for balance we have also seen transition era rolling stock plus the 128 DPU. I think the notion that N is a relative newcomer probably misses the mark, N has been around for almost 60 years commercially, and British N started in the mid 1960s so by the time the mid 70s had arrived it was reasonably well catered for (Farish, Lima, Hornby Minitrix). I think it is fair to say that the most popular modelling area in N currently remains the steam/diesel transition period, this can be witnessed by the speed with which models sell through in liveries related to the period. Take the example of the Farish 8F, it pretty much cleared the Bachmann warehouse out of BR livery on release. Green diesel feature too, look at the most recent sound enabled Farish 31, you can get more recent liveries quite readily still, but try to find a BR green one.... Dapol are re re-running a number of steam models, Sonic will soon release their second steam loco the J50, with (according to their distributor Rails of Sheffield) further plans as yet undisclosed beyond that. What is true is that Bachmann/Farish, the biggest provider of steam models in British N, seem not only to have taken their eye off the ball in N generally, but in spite of a significant existing range already tooled steam locos they have failed to maintain any vestige a of supply. Now there may be many reasons for this, not least Covid and Far East supply issues, but also parent company Kader Industries who may well dictate production priorities. Probably a mix of all. However I do not believe there is any lack of demand for steam, what there is (hopefully just currently) is a lack of supply. I am hoping that as well as new tool in quarterly announcements there will also be more re-runs announced (for example the 4MT Tank has only so far had one batch produced and in two liveries so just 2000 in all) that has to be a prospect. As to a "Princess" yes, agreed, I have long thought it odd that this has been missed as a RTR model, but let's see. I can't help thinking before that we need a supply of more "boring" mixed traffic locos to be re-established, simple 0-6-0s being at a lower price-point. Roy

The usual "not my era" caveat but even still it has to be said the EP looks superb. I am vaguely familiar having occasionally travelled on these units and it really does capture the look well in my opinion. A big "well done" to Ben, Mike and the Team. Roy

I have mulled this over during the morning, and I simply have to conclude that whatever the rights and wrongs, the duplication of these models by Hornby is disappointing and feels quite unnecessary. There is no way of knowing for sure what the motivation for doing so is, but I cannot believe it is because there were no other choices that could have been done, to me it feels like a spiteful attempt to disrupt Rapido's well publicised intentions as far as these models go. I appreciate that there is an argument that "business is business" and the big player is flexing their muscles, but I can't also help feeling that it is a sign of insecurity too and in that context an attempt to undermine the new upstart, the quality of whose models is a nasty wake up call. As an N gauge modeller I have no skin in this particular game, and OK duplication has not been unheard of in N but always much more "mainstream" models never anything quite as niche as this. A very sad state of affairs. Roy

My guess would be the PCB, or at least that a component (or components) on it have failed. I have had a few blow over the years, usually you get lights but no movement either on DC or DCC just as you describe. There will be those who will know what components on the PCB to replace and have the necessary skill, but I have bought new ones at about £16 a pop direct from Bachmann's spares department. Install is easy if you are careful and methodical, and no soldering required. Regards Roy

This thread has gone rather quiet of late, and loathe though I am to interrupt all the "announcement" frothing on another, I just wondered if Andy could advise how the tooling of this loco is getting on and when we might get to see an EP? Roy

Are we to assume all announcements will be OO?

I watched the FB Live recording right through. I thought it gave some valuable insight into the considerations involved in producing models of all types. I have a sound fitted 28 on order and am delighted to hear that in terms of pre-orders the model has proved to be so popular, I guess it has the same quirkiness as the EFE (Ex DJM) Clayton which seems to have been an equally savvy choice, proving that poor locos in reality definitely does not mean unpopular in model form. I was another who asked for the Conflat P's just because Cuneo's painting made the Co-Bo synonymous with the Condor service, but as a modeller I am very happy (1) that my 28 and P's will be operating well away from the designated route (diverted - Rule 1 is your friend!) and (2) I do not necessarily need to order a full rake of P's to have the desired effect. I think I have ordered 8 and this (maybe 2 more) with a Stove R at the rear will do nicely. It would be nice to think that someone might do the "Condor" headboard in N too (If Rapido don't provide a nice etched one in the packaging - hint). I was delighted that the popularity of the 28 is likely to mean more N diesels, and clearly from a cost basis this makes sense, there are however only a few as yet untouched RTR ones from the modernisation plan, of which I guess maybe the pretty little Baby Deltic may feature strongly alongside the Class 21/29 (not so sure about the Class 15?). Acknowledging the cost v return issue, I would personally love to see Rapido produce something steam, possibly a simple N Gauge -0-6-0 tender loco design but I suspect they are a long way from that at the moment. Roy

The LNER 8F variant was a real oddball choice and given the very restricted timeframe they operated in it was (in my opinion anyway) never likely to be a strong seller, to be honest a better choice would have been a weathered BR variant alongside the other two BR ones, but here we are. It shouldn't be a difficult job though, using Fox "obliteration patches" to cover the old LNER numbers and lettering to convert it to a BR or even LMS one and I'll be on the lookout for a reasonably cheap one in time to do just that. A fair point re: wagons v's coaches, I am just glad I built up my maroon Mk1 stock when they were more freely available. I know there will be constraints on production capacity, but there would be so much more demand for Mk1s in Maroon and Blue/Grey than in the oddball test train type liveries that the few coaches we do see come through in. In this respect there does need to be a little more joined up thinking in my opinion to leverage the most effective use of such production slots as there are. Oddball liveries do not align to maintaining a credible supply of mainstream items and I feel that priority should instead be given to maintaining supply of a few of the more common Mk1 coaches in the two liveries. Roy

Typically all unfitted agreed, but there were plenty of fitted 16 Tonners around too, and I feel sure prototypical trains can be found. I did happen to wander off and have a look for more info on the various types of 16T wagon and their uses, anything from coal to sand, sugar-beet to scrap and of course mineral ores. A fascinating if long read on this very site: - 16t minerals - Page 92 - Modelling musings & miscellany - RMweb Roy