Legend

Thanks Alan . I'm suffering from baseboard droop, it happens at my age, and it looked to me that this could be a useful material to correct it . Thanks for the information . Looking forward to future progress . Loved the videos you posted.

Wow. Just come across this thread . What an impressive layout. I have been interested in Swiss and German trains ever since a coach trip to Interlaken in the Bernese Oberland back in 1978. Have visited a few times since and always fancied a layout. Unfortunately just no space to have a UK layout and a Swiss one. So I am really looking forward to see continued progress with this and update my knowledge on latest Swiss /German traction. Might I ask what the grey material is you are laying the tracks on. I've been over the 10 pages to see if it was mentioned, apologies if I've missed it.

There are some fantastic pre grouping liveries that could generate a market. I'll bet there were a lot of BR steam modellers that bought Bachmanns SE&CR C class because it looked so good. I was a bit late off the mark on that one , I certainly considered it, even though I'd have nothing to run it with and it's completely outside my area (Scotland) or time period. On the other hand there is the LB&SCR E4 that's still sitting on shelves , although Bachmann price increases happened in between. Sounds like Oxford have it covered though with GER through to early BR . I'm sure late BR will appear soon. And surely this is the best way for all. Models that are pre grouping that lasted through to Late BR , like a Caley 812 !

Oh yes I'm sure there have been a few collisions, I'm just questioning the fact it was directly off the Holy Loch . Extremely unlikely. I can imagine it may well have been around the Argyllshire Coast, off the Mull of Kintyre for instance. After all we used to send subs up to the Barents Sea to track their boomers as they came out of Murmansk., I'd imagine the Russians had a few sitting in the Irish Sea waiting to track ours. There have been reports over the last few years that Russian Subs have been waiting off the coast to intercept our Trident submarines. They used to be deterred by our Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft, but in a spectacular miscalculation, that really heads should roll for , we scrapped them in David Cameron's defence review, Thats certainly one of the reasons we are now having to invest in the US 737 derived Poseidon aircraft. Really what folly!

Well I don't know , because I'm not party to state secrets but I highly doubt there was a collision off the Holy Loch. I've observed these submarines back in the day , I thought they submerged off the coast of Arran on their way out to sea,not directly off the Holy Loch as implied in the article and the map. You used to see them sailing down the Clyde , I've never seen one submerge at the Holy Loch , but of course I can't be certain. Nowadays you seldom see submarines on the Clyde even though all 4 Trident boats and the Astutes and Remaining T class boats are all now based in Faslane .

I'm happy you per grouping boys have something to look forward to. However reality is that the most popular variant would almost certainly be a BR late crest variant. I think someone did a survey a few years ago to see what time period was modelled most and it was certainly late BR steam/ Green Diesel However it could be worse............you could be Scottish! Had high hopes for an 812 in blue or an NBR J36 . When people start talking about Big Bertha remember there are still barren wastelands of indigenous steam types around, Scotland and the LNWR being two immediately obvious ones.

Do you think they are teasing by showing an 86 pulling Virgin Mk3s? No Caley 812 which is a disappointment, although I think Hornsby would make a lovely job of it. ScotRail Mk3s yippee. Prices edging up. The class B tanks a possibility , would have been better at lower cost through.

I think my first trainset came from an ironmongers. Hughes in Neilston Road Paisley , Back in the 60s . All model shops and stockists now disappeared but I've still got two very well stocked and helpful ironmongers close by. They seem to make a living. I wonder if introducing model Railways would give them a profitable new line . I suspect the only way to get a presence back is to have a shop within a shop, spreading the overheads. Similar to Bicycle shops mentioned elsewhere .

I can't see each model shop commissioning their own exclusive models as being a viable means of retaining a model shop. You would quickly reach market saturation. It might work for a few big boys but not if everyone did it. As I've said before I find the business aspect of the hobby fascinating. I think Hattons recognized the trend and also that they were being starved of revenue because of the poor supply from Hornby a few years ago. They therefore decided to go down the commissioning route. Kernow have done the same,Rails dabbled with the LMS twins, Olivia's with DCC sound and Woodhead electrics. On the other hand Hornby probably realizing that a large % of the market was going through the box shifters decided to increase their margin by selling direct and taking what would have been the box shifters profit into their own books. That didn't work as it really stuffed the independent retailer. Bachmann just increased prices , but I do wonder if that has worked and what that has done to the independent retailer. They must sell less and make less money in shops , but Bachmann make a larger margin per unit, so ok for them. It's noticeable that Dave of DJM has had most success with commissions through retailers. I think the Austerity is actually the only model released directly by his company, and even then Hattons has exclusives. I do wonder if in retrospect he might have been better setting himself up as middleman between retailers that want to commission models and China. But , back to my opening point . There is a limit to the number of commissions It really is a fascinating time. Glad it's not my livelihood , though. The independent model shop needs any support it can get.

Not all model shops do offer Bachmann at -15% . I think Harburn, in Edinburgh , as an example pretty much charge full price. Hornby certainly is.

Unless of course, they don't view rolling stock and locomotives as being complementary. Maybe they are just looking for gaps in market and filling it. Would explain the Adams Radial ,announced before Hornby, the Mk3, numerous complaints on accuracy of Hornby model , and Deans Goods, Hornby model too old. In which case you maybe looking at something in an existing range which is old and needs updating. The 86 is still a candidate , but maybe a Manor or 43xx?

I'd forgotten Vi Trains! Thanks . Yes indeed 5 versions

Would be unwise to quadruplicate the 47. Hornby( although not in current catalogue) can produce a cheap one, Bachmann s one to me ticks all the accuracy boxes. Glad I bought it when Bachmann were more reasonable price wise. An 86 also has 2 contenders , but one is very old and the other not up to standard, apparently. Not much else pull Mk3s. Really hope we don't get a duplicate 87, although if it's a 90 chances are they'll get it to market ahead of Bachmann

If you read the description in the latest catalogue it says the HM2000 has compensation, so it keeps locos at a steady speed. It doesn't directly say feedback but I think that's the impression I'm getting. It would be interesting to find out someone's experiences of running the loco on these controllers which ,coming from the main manufacturer of UK trains ,must be very numerous out there. Looking at Gaugemasters latest adverts they now do make distinction ( of maybe it's me just more alert to it) of normal controllers, feedback controllers and ones with simulation. From this I take it that those with simulation are not feedback controllers , at least if you don't use the simulation! My own are Gaugemaster DS from about 20 years ago , which I think I'm correct in saying are not feedback.

It is fascinating stuff. One thing that just struck me as I peruse the catalogue is that there's no modern image trainset. The Pendolino and Eurostar sets are no longer there. They also make reference in the large A4 and A3 trainset that it's for people returning to the hobby. So it does look to me that the trainset market has changed and there is recognition that junior no longer wants a trainset . The sets are primarily steam locos with three coaches or beginners sets with 0-4-0.

Really hoping for something Scottish. An 812 please. Hornby would be my preferred choice, having seen the Huntley and Palmers Peckett with that Caleyesque livery , however if Oxford were to announce I'd also be very happy . How about an 86 , they have to have something to pull these Mk3s and a Caley 812.

I kind of agree if you need the exposure. My central point was that they didn't need it. They are all sold out at Hornby anyway and now it seems most retailers. Another interesting development is the tie up with Hornby Magazine . Hornby Mag is referred to in the latest catalogue. The Peckett was reviewed by them in December as you say, ahead of anyone else. Interestingly the latest copy(February) has a review of The Merchant Navy , again ahead of anyone else. Could it be that Hornby are now channeling reviews through their chosen mag. I don't think it's Hornbys review sample policy that drove them close to wall. Maybe not so blinkered after all

Yes Triangman is very good. He managed to find me an old Triang Hornby Turntable.

But from Hornbys point of view they've sold them all anyway, so what value would they have had supplying models to magazines. I still subscribe to the view that magazines need reviews to sell copies more than Hornby does to sell models. While it won't get around timing issue if magazines really need locos to review I don't see why they can't buy them as normal then sell them on second hand through a model shop they have an arrangement with. In that way the cost of the models would not be horrendous. In the case of the Peckett you might actually make money as it's appreciating in value! In my case it was S&DJR88s review on here, which he posted very quickly, that made me want the Huntley and Palmers blue version. Again information on here said that Hereford Model Centre had them in stock. So really it's showing that in the days of limited production runs etc you have to be fast. This is where the internet and forums such as RMWeb and the wider community in YouTube come into there own. Because of these circumstances , low production runs, sell outs etc, I do wonder if the days of the mag review are over. It's still a beautiful little model. I think it's the most joy of ownership I've got from a model in some time. Just love seeing it trundling round the freight sidings at low speed. This has got to be model of the year and Hornby manufacturer of the year

Curious , but still £289.99 , so only a £20 drop I think. Still way too much for this. I would prefer the Limby Railroad one introduced in a range of liveries.

And a coat of blue paint

Caley 812

But labour is only a % of the final retail price. There's materials, manufacturers margin, carriage, retailers margin all in the final selling price . So for a selling price to have doubled and it all be down to labour , the labour would have to quadrupled and more probably. It hasn't

Bachmann is owned by Kader , so it's as much "in house" as you can get. I think it's Kaders expectations of margin that is the issue here , probably on the basis that they can use capacity to serve higher margin European Markets. Do I know this..........no , but consider the following example Hornby and Bachmann, amongst others, all made in China, the cost of plastics , metals , labour are all the same. Hornby have to pay someone else to make their models because they have no capacity of their own. That company has to make a profit , so really Hornby is at a disadvantage here. Bachmann source their models from Kader , who own Bachman, yes even though it's the same group, Kader also have to make a profit. Bachmann should have the advantage of vertical integration, Yet Hornby can bring you Colletts at £45 mrp and Bachmann Thompsons @ £52.50 . Ok they are different but most people would consider them typical highly detailed coaches , probably similar size of market albeit one is GWR and other LNER . The answer can only be that Kader expect a higher profit per unit than Hornby. Yes Kader needs to make a profit , but as costs are similar it follows that Bachmann must be paying a higher amount to Kader than Hornby are to their third party suppliers. The test to see what people would pay were the Inspection Saloons , that was followed by Autocoaches . Presumably they sold them and now Birdcages , Thompsons and 2fs are following on.

I'm just looking for a DBSO . I dont need or want lights, but it appears this is the only way to get one. Thanks for the info though