Legend

Yes , your last point is my fear, but I Suspect I'm coming in the opposite direction. I think most would agree that this model is a strange mix of Railroad and Standard and is priced as such at about £117 I think. My fear is that Hornby will think they can get away with charging £120 for Railroad items which were coming in at £80 mark ( eg P2) while I think your fear is that items that could be super detailed will end up in Railroad range. I think more than ever it again emphasizes the need for range distinctions. Again what motor is in this one is it 5 pole or 3 pole ? In their defence this is probably one of the last locos from the Kohler era where loco standards from one release to another were very mixed.

Completely agree . People talk about the shape of Deltics nose ,and I can't see it . Even this hoo ha about handrails being attached horizontally , can't see it. But this is a very obvious fault which actually ruins the character of the model , to the extent it's not worth having.

Yes I suppose you're correct Tim. The only points I would make are that a 116 ran on WR, LMR and ScR so was much more widespread , and therefore I think more useful to modellers than a 117 that was primarily a WR London division dmu. From my point of view it would have been preferable to have a 116 first and then a 117. After all the model is probably optimistically 2 years away, and therefore any derivatives 4 years away! I think there is a muted reaction to this announcement (it's got to 2 pages in 2 days)because it's really an announcement of something we thought we were already in line for through Kernow anyway, and in fact may put the 116 and 118 further away. We haven't seen the price so it may well be an irrelevance anyway It would also be interesting to see the number of intended buyers that are DCC versus Analogue as the provision of through electrical couplings to enable one decoder to be fitted must increase the cost. I can also live without lights and would settle for a similar scheme as the 108 for head and tail lights , if it meant it was less expensive.

Can only assume it's a 117 because of Kernow correction. For me a 116 is a lost opportunity . Much more geographically widespread, 117s only really became more widespread in their later lives. I'm still waiting to see what Kernow mean by saying they haven't forgotten 116 and 118. DJ is saying the 117 transfer to Bachmann releases time for other projects , does that mean he is not progressing the 116/118 either? Are Bachmann working with Kernow to bring us the 116/118 later or has this Bachmann announcement of a 117 effectively shelved these projects ? Also the announcement would have been more meaningful if it included a rough timeline (as was asked is this at the back of the queue , behind the Class 90 or is it well advanced) and of course price. The inclusion of neither suggests the 117 could be years away

Yes thanks Callum, another excellent video, and I must admit I hadn't clocked the difference with the smoke deflectors between the early and late versions until you pointed it out. Sorely tempted, but I think it's just the hype of something new. It it were a rebuilt Crosti I might have bought one though.

I happened to be in one today, when someone came into enquire if they had the new Crosti. They said they'd had acknowledgement from Hornby that the stock was in warehouse and that they were expecting their delivery in 7 to 10 days . They also said they had tried to order more as their entire stock was already accounted for by pre orders , but that it was sold out at Hornby. Only hearsay, but I hope it helps. Hopefully someone like Trains4U, Widnes Model Centre or 87029 can confirm.

Give them a little time. They are probably shipping to model shops at the same time as offering them for sale on website.

I definitely don't have knowledge of that!

I have a Gaugemaster DS from about 1992 I think and a H &M Clipper from 1975! Neither have given me any trouble . As pointed out above the raised panel DS is a more recent version .

Many thanks for the response. At the end of the day it's an individual's decision whether they buy models or not. As to happiness , I appreciate that many of my posts are whingeing on about value for money, but believe it or not I am a naturally happy chappy, and in true Scots fashion , never happier than when getting good value.

Definitely a brake Gresley coach in there at £49.95 in teak if anyone interested. Lots of new Pullmans at £49.95 too. There may be others but I wasn't paying too much attention. The Modelzone in Glasgow has been stocked up in recent months and has a good range on display. Occasionally they run discounts as well giving 15- 20% off so it's worth keeping an eye on. Anyway the price comparison was being made to demonstrate the absurdity of Bachmann prices , which I think it does

This is an outlier I was in Model zone , WHS Glasgow today and teak Gresleys are priced 49.95. Not exactly known for their cheap prices I would think this is mrp

But as I keep on saying, this is the wrong comparison, and what makes people like Bachmann think they can charge whatever they want , presumably up to £250 because it's still a bargain compared to a hand made version. This is a mass produced piece of plastic , with some very clever machines decorating it. It is not a largely hand assembled , hand painted coach. Yes there are possibly more assembly involved in this coach compared to Mk1s of 15 years ago , but it's still limited.

I'm waiting for the diagram of exploded parts that will no doubt appear in due course to justify this price, or the fact that it's a relatively unknown prototype ( I don't think that but I'm sure it'll be a reason ) to justify the need to charge more . If you go by the immediate postings above , which seem particularly selfish to me, you will end up with European prices and by their own hand" less modellers " . Not very good for the market or hobby I would suggest. Howls of protest? Well others have already made the point. Hornby are bringing in detailed coaches at £10-£15 less . I haven't got one, but their latest Pullmans seem well regarded , with LED lighting and cost less than these Thompsons . Both made in China, one at a third party subcontractor (usually more expensive), the other in house at the parents manufacturing facility . What other conclusions are possible other than Bachmann/Kader are trying to maximise the profit on these coaches at the expense of the British consumer. The new reality? Well only if you make it so.

Just glad I bought from the last batch of Thompson coaches produced by Bachmann in Crimson & Cream. £18 each . Not so long ago! My only issue was that they weren't free running but unusually had very stiff bogies. These costs are absurd, completely agree with Rembrow as to the likely reason (Sorry costs are not going up that much- what other consumer goods from China do you know has gone up in price at the same rate?). Bachmann are the new Wrenn in terms of market pricing , and will become increasingly irrelevant.

I do think that there is a place in the market at the lower cost, value for money end. It may just be that Oxford can make a nice return on the margins they make . They do seem to be more vertically integrated than most, which is typically more efficient, cutting out the need for margins at each stage. Even though Bachmann is owned by Kader , they seem to have to compete in an internal market against European brands with European margins, which I still believe is a contributory if not main reason for such large increases. I should point out that is only my opinion. Yes I do know Costs are increasing. I benchmark them for an international company . I also know that companies margin expectations do depend on who owns them , whether that's publicly, or privately .

Yes , also wish them well and I hope they pursue their range strategy . It is unfortunate that their first loco is duplicated by Hornby and it will need to be of an equivalent standard to stand a chance, even though I believe its £20 less expensive. I will buy a PO wagon or two just to try out, but I've never wanted a radial, being darn sarf. I'd imagine model shop owners will be welcoming Oxford with open arms , with Hornby going toward direct sales and Bachmann pricing themselves at top end of market (if not pricing themselves out of market) they need something to sell to the value conscious enthusiast. If Oxford can bring out a range they may well fill the gap here. I remember 76/77 when Mainline appeared with a well thought out range , more detailed and less expensive than Hornby at the time. I'm hoping Oxford will re kindle that excitement. Just a bit worried that promised updates seem not to have happened . Hope they haven't got cold feet.

I bet there are a number of Hornby development engineers having a good laugh at this. I think there are probably a few that like pulling people's legs too!

Don't know what make of car it is, but mine is a Kia Sportage which has a 7 year warranty. You need a full service history to substantiate this. It's not mileage limited,so even at 90000 miles a FSH can still be important.

That's a really nice layout. Love the section on the bank, just looks like a Glen a Ogle on the Callendar and Oban clinging to the hillside. Just spent an enjoyable half hour watching the trains on You Tube. Thanks for that. Clearly there are no power drops around the layout. How did you manage that?

It's relative. The Far East is still much lower than Western Europe. And to answer directly in a job that benchmarks manufacturing costs in various parts of the world

Who compared it to the car industry? What I said was it's mass produced plastic. Ok . It could be as low as 2 or 3 thousand units,but the point is these are plastic mouldings, yes that then require assembly. Not by robots, but in this case low cost workers. Possibly a little like the electronics industry which also requires some assembly of components and some manual dexterity. I'm not talking about smoke box darts but the forthcoming Autocoach. My main point is that comparing the cost and effort of someone making one for themselves , even from a kit, with the cost of a "mass" produced item is entirely spurious.

Wrong comparison. This is mass produced plastic, presumably made on a production line,not an individually made model

I'd see Ronnies post #155 which I think offers the reason. Of course it depends whether enough people buy it as to whether this is successful . In retrospect I think the Inspection saloon was a tester. See what the market will stand for a coach, and as a result we now have an Autocoach @£69.95 . I dread to think the cost of a DBSO. But the solution is in our hands.Either buy or don't, and as I'm in the latter category it makes when the models arrive somewhat of an irrelevance. So price and delivery are related ( plus the price goes up every year!)