Legend

Hornby by Bachmann. A few years ago I thought this would be a good idea. But not since Mr Ting from Kader visited 2 years ago and prices shot up since. I really hope this is not an outcome. For a start you wouldn't need separate design teams in Barwell and Sandwich , so not good for Hornbys employees. What is needed is a period of tight financial control, review of systems to make sure they are robust. Re enguage with retailer. Maybe some contraction is necessary to concentrate on profitable lines , take out the deadwood. In terms of models I'm not sure the 71 will be a best seller, and I wonder about how much of the stock not moving are Pullmans, but they are doing things right with Colletts, Kings , J15s etc Might need a change in management to renew faith with banks and shareholders.

We don't know the details. Simply put they maybe thought it was there, that's what the computer said, but when they did the count it wasn't, Could they have sent it out without invoice, doubled up quantities by mistake. It can happen . Another possibility was the stock was there but over valued . Maybe they valued at full retail and not lower of cost or net realisable value. I think the point is that even very basic companies have stock taking routines, either regular full physical counts or perpetual counting eg you count a sample every month and cover your entire stock over the year. Sounds like there has been a fundamental failure here. That's one issue of bad management. Clearly it's also been a surprise. In finance no one likes surprises and it shows a management not in control. Thinking about it overnight, it might be that certain elements of management really need to go in order to restore some faith. Sounds like a root and branch review of financial systems also required

I suspect he's basing it on what is moving off his shelves. Seems reasonable to me. I also now wonder who actually buys trainsets. The reality is that a train that runs round a very small oval of track has very limited functionality and really do kids want trainsets anymore or a Scalextric compared to some of the cheaper tablets or a new phone? We were much easier to please in the 60s compared to today's more discerning children who do seem to grow up faster. That's why Smyths don't stock them, because people won't pay£100+ for them . They do stock "cheapo trainsets" because people are prepared to buy them , I would suggest still in limited quantities, at lower prices. I wonder if the bottom has now really fallen out of the trainset and scalextric market, which would affect Hornby proportionately more.

Quite shocked and genuinely sorry about this, not least for their remaining UK employees. Let's hope they can get out of this. I thought they had turned the corner, delivering a good quantity of new product. I did have concerns over their relations with retailers and it would appear these are more deep seated than I thought given the comments of some in preceding messages. A company that's hard to deal with is really a damning situation. That needs to be resolved quickly along with their computer system. The stock write off of £1m ( what were the stock levels before) sounds very large. I would certainly not got away with that in my previous job. Resignations would be expected to be tendered! It's difficult to know what to advise. Certainly dumping some stock at low prices has damaged the brand even though I have to say I've taken advantage of this. On the other hand had they maintained high prices I wouldn't have gone near them anyway, so they at least got some income from me. They are not getting any sympathy from the Model Railway media either, but I don't think the failure to supply free samples is in any way the main cause of their troubles . I haven't noticed a lack of coverage of their new King for instance. Bottom line is the mags simply have to buy or borrow their models instead of having them supplied free from Hornby. I think immediate priorities are Get your banking position resolved Sort out computer system. You certainly need to invoice on time and update inventory. Really these are basics! Restore relations with retailers probably by giving them more of a margin to play with( which means Hornby reduces their own margin. I know it sounds like this is wrong thing to do in short term , but long term will pay off) Maintain direct selling but stop selling at deep discounted prices Continue to develop range at reasonable prices eg Collett coaches. Maximise brands or geographical segments that are doing well. Increasing prices is not the answer. There is a limit to what the general enthusiast will pay. I do wonder if there is a mass movement away from high cost hobbies to more moderate ones. That could explain why Airfix is doing relatively OK( per Trains4u). It certainly mirrors what I've been doing cutting my expenditure on model railways (mainly that's been Bachmann items, actually spent more with Hornby last year) and re awakening an interest in model airliners .

I know it Andy, and it wasn't a criticism. Indeed from memory I left the N and O sections blank because I had no knowledge of it. It was more a reference to human nature, people do have a tendency to tick boxes just because it's there

Because there was little else to vote for. I also think having these multiple choice things tends to make people feel they have to vote. So I'll bet there were a number of people who have no knowledge of this model , but felt they had to make a selection .

So far I'm only modelling BR(W) . I've already got Hawksworths in maroon and crimson/cream . But I'm thinking of backdating to GWR and these coaches just look superb , so really thinking of picking up a set. Thanks for the response guys.

Would a 5 coach rake of these be prototypical? I know I've got various books on GWR and in most cases the coaches seem to be a mixture not a nice homogenous rake. If a 5 car rake is a goer what would be suggested make up?

Looks gorgeous. Very tempted .

In later days there were composites as well. I think by converting the firsts . Probably you would just need a new seat insert as I don't think they were any external changes. In fact I could live without that , just have the yellow first strip applied half way down coach. I won't be peering in my Mk 3 windows Excited by this as I think you are right , this is the best chance of getting Scotrail mk3s . I'll have a go at converting a mk2 break or maybe pick up a second hand conversion when the Bachmann one comes out , as I'm sure the price will be prohibitive based on the Autocoach

They do appear to have lost the plot

Really? I think I've seen it all now . Frankly I'd rather have the pair of marigolds!

Maintaining good customer relations has got to be one of the key priorities for a manufacturer, accepting that in most cases, unless you deal direct your contract is with the retailer. It seems though that Dapol have spectacularly failed by not replying to criticisms. I feel really sorry for people who so looked forward to this model and who are now disappointed . For me I have no interest in 73 but I have been monitoring the thread because I am interested in a 68. There's no way on earth I'm preordering a 68 until I establish if it runs well and is properly decorated.The complete lack of customer care from this manufacturer has completely put me off! Bad enough £100+ but would you spend £400+ on a "Black Label"loco with this mob ? I just don't think they have any notion of customer care

Nah, got to be a McIntosh 812! Still this does look like a nice model and I think it could be joining my GWR collection.

Rapido could still do a Mk3 . I think they are likely to do one for the prototype HST . I can't imagine anyone just producing the power car. They could do a very highly detailed one at a price, catering for that market (Rapido can have low production runs which would probably cater for the High Fidelity market). I see the Oxford one as competing for the Middle market , where people like running trains and are not too bothered at pipes underneath etc . It will have to be competitively priced given the relative low cost of Hornby versions, especially when sold in Bundles direct by Hornby

Yep think I'm up for collecting these. Are they mainly NB prototypes?

Yes I'm thinking this is the best chance for Scotrail variants

Well let's wait see. Seems a shame it's the shopkeeper or Customer that will be doing the QC checks again

Sounds like the Clayton debacle all over again. Is there no such thing as individual loco testing either at Heljan or the manufacturer?

Is there actually a Hornby announcement? You sure it's not someone being a touch ironical? Hornby did make an announcement last year just ahead of Bachmann but I haven't seen anything mentioning this year

Well , thanks to the Bargain Hunters thread , ordered 42xx @ £60 from Hawkins Bazaar on Wednesday. Amazingly good service it arrived on Thursday. Finally got to run it today. What a superb locomotive. Smooth running , after a spell of running in , got her crawling round my layout with 20 mineral wagons . No problem at all. Really impressed both with the service and the loco.

Other costs have not been increasing by 17% over the last two years either but that hadn't stopped Bachmann. And in fact in some cases prices have increased by more than 17% , I'm thinking Pressflo for instance. Still let's wait and see. Know anything else that's increased by such an extent over the last two years, during falling oil and raw material prices............no me neither! Still convinced it's not about increasing margins to European Levels? If everyone accepts such price increases that's where they will go.

If an Autocoach which has no DCC gubbins and is actually a pretty plain and straightforward coach comes in at £69.95 I think you'll find the DBSO will come in more expensive. Bachmann have clearly established they can get away with charging more for "specialised " vehicles hence the inspection Saloons and Autocoaches, even though the last would in my opinion be a very popular model, if priced correctly.I wouldn't be surprised if the DBSO ends up in the £80 range. Of course that's way too expensive for me. I'm hoping this will release a trickle of converted Airfix DBSO s that I'll be able to pick up relatively cheaply. I just need it to top and tail a repainted Jouef set and I don't need the DCC bits. Something much simpler will do for me.

My fear is the cost of the DBSO which I do want but not at silly prices.

I suppose it depends if you need it in the next 2-3 years. If you do, go Hornby. Recent gestation periods for Bachmann models have been very long eg Stanier 2-6-0, mk2 coaches ,class 158 . No reason to believe the 121/117 will be any different even though a lot of preliminary work done by Kernow. So if you need it now I'd really get the Hornby one