chriswright03

I do not know what the signage or notifications are at stations as I have not looked. One or two on here have commented that TOC have advice on their web sites and I would expect without fail all will have to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act. The fact that not everyone has access to a smartphone is a little bit simplistic. I doubt very much someone would just turn up at a railway station expecting to be able to catch a train to their chosen destination without first finding out if one went to there and the times of them. That being the case information re access would be not far from that information. The fact that someone may be disabled and need a mobility scooter or wheelchair does not mean they are incapable of any of the functions to check basic information to plan a journey or have someone do it on their behalf.

37688 obviously a regular visitor to Lincoln Central over the years. Seen here in three different guises. All photos copied from a Facebook Group Railways of Lincoln with the kind permission of Paul Ward and Martin Turner. First one by Paul Ward in 1996 in triple grey sector colours. Second one moves up to 2001 taken by Martin Turner in EWS livery. Notice the horns have gone. Lastly taken some ten years later in 2011 again by Paul Turner this time in DRS livery. Horns put back on the roof. It would now appear to be living in Norfolk. http://norfolk-orbital-railway.co.uk/class-37-diesel-locomotive-joins-mid-norfolk-railway/

All of which shows why it needs to be investigated properly to find out what went wrong, how it could be done better and to ensure that ALL staff involved receive training or advice to help prevent it happening again. None of that can be achieved on here by people working out in their heads what happened without either being there and seeing or it or actually knowing the facts as ascertained by an investigation. It is a fact of life that some will go the extra mile to assist if they can and some will do all they can to avoid doing anything at all. There is no evidence to suggest which category anyone involved in this fits into yet some still insist on using that awful expression 'jobsworth'. None of us know what the RPO were doing at the time and whilst it is true that it looks like they could have helped by at least bringing the passenger to the attention of the train staff none of us know why they didn't. So with that in mind branding them as Jobsworth seems to be Judge and Jury and that to my mind is just as wrong as someone not doing the right thing in everyday life. None of us are perfect. Everyone makes mistakes be it at work or in our personal life. I cannot see that anyone bickering with another or second guessing what happened on the day helps anything. So what I would suggest is that we hope this is resolved in the proper manner and that all involved learn from it. Included in that is that perhaps we could all take a moment to look at ourselves and try and make sure that we do what is expected of us in our day to day lives. In my working career I have made mistakes, have not always dealt with people as I should due to rising to the bait and lost it on occasions. I believe that to be normal. Making a mistake is normal doing the same thing on a second occasion means that you have not learnt from your mistakes and that leads us into bad habits and that is what we should all try and avoid.

I think this is going in a direction that helps no one. None of us know the facts let alone the full facts so I think we are back to something I posted earlier. We no doubt all agree that the person should not have been left. We are not in a position to judge who if anyone was at fault and therfore should not. It is a fact that a small percentage of the public are truly unpleasant and are very good at being offensive. Many will make false complaints in an effort to cause problems for whoever for no valid reason. I have come across this myself on rare occasions but have represented many bus drivers who have been subject to it. On occasions drivers react badly and make matters worse and without doubt on occasions drivers have started the problem with poor attitude. We all have a right to be able to work without being abused. There are several reasons that this could have occured which have been discussed. Ranging from a mistake by staff through negigence by staff to the passenger may be banned or didn't want to travel. We don't know. I hope it was reported in order that it can be investigated but I doubt we will ever know the answer. Jumping to conclusions and blaming someone without knowing any facts is neither helpful nor right.

Likewise on the buses there is a limit as to what can be carried. Basically the ones with lights on and a tent over the top can't! The ramps are only certified for a certain weight (I forget what it is) and the driver has to operate it manually so he does have to get out of his cab. On the buses there has also been another complication in that the area designated for wheelchair use is also used by those with buggies/pushchairs and if someone is there already with one you have to 'ask' them to move to allow a disabled person on. This has caused loads of problems including long running court cases because people have refused to fold the buggy or get off the bus to allow a disabled person on and then the driver and Company get the blame. At various times we were instructed to demand that they left the bus/refuse to drive if they didn't/allow them to travel and refuse the disabled person stating the reason. All most confusing as it would sometimes change on a weekly basis and depending on who the controller was. Thing is as much as disabled travellers have rights so do parents with young children in prams. It isn't right to have to leave anyone at a station or on the side of the road in any weather but it also isn't clear as to who should have right over another. In this case it was simply a case of the person appeared to have been missed and I agree it should be investigated and whilst I understand the OP's initial reluctance to name the TOC or location I believe the right thing would be to ring the Company and give them the details to assist with an enquiry to make sure it doesn't happen again if avoidable. It is not a case of dropping anyone in it more a case of doing the right thing.

Sadly that is also very often the case as well Boris. Also the Company I worked for always believed the complainant rather than the driver. Innocent until proved guilty did not feature at all in Company Procedure. Many battles over the years to show that all drivers weren't lying psychopaths.

I forget which one it is but one in Grantham used to be hit virtually on a weekly basis. Lorry is being recovered still but trains are running.

As sad as it is that this has happened and someone has been left stranded what I find equally as sad is that a lot of posters are looking for someone to blame for this. It should not have happened and I am sure we all agree on that. Why it happened will no doubt be investigated as I am sure a complaint will have been made. Rather than look to blame some individual(s), what needs to be looked at is why it happened and ensuring it doesn't happen again if at all possible. I doubt very much that it was done deliberately and with malice by the guard who by the sound of it was elsewhere. Even trained staff can only be in one place at a time. Should the RPO staff have helped? Well if they were there as it suggests they were in the OP then they could have told the Guard but I agree entirely with the fact that they are neither trained nor allowed to use equipment and as such should not under any circumstances. Yes one of them could have gone to find the guard and inform him of the passenger requiring assistance. If an investigation is launched then any witnesses should be asked what they saw but that is only 'if' said witnesses come forward. Has the OP contacted anyone to tell them he was a witness? If it becomes apparent that two RPO were stood there and did nothing then I am sure they would be given advice for the future but they still would not be allowed to use equipment they are not trained or authorised to. I accept that the human thing for anyone to do would be assist if they can but I do object to the term jobsworth. Having been involved in passenger transport (buses) for a number of years and being responsible for representing Union members in discipline hearings I can assure you that people do get dismissed for not following Company procedures. Then they are jobless as opposed to jobsworth with the related problem of finding funds to live.

I agree with both points but from knowing the area and having driven under it (in a car) thousands of times I just don't recall it being low whereas some in the area were notoriously so. Like the one just outside Clarborough on the way to Retford that was equipped with the dangling sensors. Just off for a look on Google Street view to see what that brings up. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3855847,-0.7678594,3a,75y,123.82h,94.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swjlUidpEcyURAAeCRGgknQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 It would seem I was wrong. As the above from 2009 shows.

http://lincolnshirereporter.co.uk/2017/12/gainsborough-road-closed-after-lorry-crashes-into-bridge/ Talk of it being a new bridge and having worked there quite a lot over the years I do not recall it being a low bridge. So was it lowered? The sign is clearly visible so is it a driver going by memory and not reading the signs maybe?

Mike Storey has posted a reply that shows the other side of this coin and I think he makes a good argument. I would add that odd journies can be difficult by public transport and easier by car. Thing is though profit isn't made from these odd journies but from regular journies by commuters and the convenience of daily transport to and fro. Part of this argument is that 'more' routes would gain more custom so we are talking about what it could/should be like and not what it is.

Whilst I don't agree with your view about the owners having plenty of money I fully accept the rest and Andy's view. I have not posted on there or tried to correct anyone so know nothing of the troubles you speak of. I fully understand though that there are people on the internet who leave a lot to be desired in respect of manners. It is the same on here at times but I never let a minority interfere with my view that this is an excellent resource. I use Wiki from time to time and I am happy to contribute a token gesture for that. Had I experienced what you and Andy had no doubt my view would change.

Oh and I just realised I didn't actually say but I did contribute and will do from time to time. If ever I have been on a forum that accepted contributions I have always done so as I think it only fair. It isn't as though it is a lot of money and what does £2, £5 or whatever buy you these days anyway? Could make that up just by using my T bags twice every day.

There are some on here like that but thankfully not many as most left with the hump. Not to say they don't sneak in in another name from time to time and try and stir things.

Only thing I could contribute to the site is money as my knowledge of anything is minimal!

Hence why level crossings are not being replaced wholesale across the network.

In the last couple of days I have visited Wiki to look for information. I notice they are asking for donations today (Min £2) to help fund the site. So I suppose it set me thinking do we rely on this sort of thing and just take it for granted that someone (advertising) will pay for it or do we contribute? Like when this place was run by Andy and sometimes some of us dipped into our pockets to help out. Is it right just to expect someone to provide a service that we expect to be there for free? I at this point would say that I fully understand not everything on Wiki is correct so cannot be relied upon for 100% accuracy but then you can say that about answers on here or anywhere on the net at times.

As I recall the fire in the Ladbroke Grove incident was fuelled by diesel and burned very fiercely for long enough to cause both fatalities and severe injuries. So I would just echo the comments above.

Actually I would say the A pillar blind spot on an Envro being big enough to hide a car at a junction is very poor. Certainly easy to miss someone on two wheels at a junction or roundabout. I was surprised that it passed the Cab Design Committee from the Unions. I realise that Jim of course but the mere suggestion that the driver has had a micro sleep is now out there in the public domain (being discussed today by Jeremy Vine) and what I was trying (poorly) to say was that there is no evidence really to show he did or he didn't but of course for a lot of people it is a case of it has been suggested therefore must be true. Being an Ex Police Officer I know about evidence, burden of proof and the like but innocent until proved guilty seems to mean nothing to the press.

There is quite a bit of footage from that era on Youtube if that is any help.

No matter what confidential systems are in place I still think it is highly unlikely that a driver will dob himself in for nearly falling to sleep at the controls. Yes shift work is difficult and having worked various forms of it for 40 plus years I know about those difficulties from experience. Sleep pattern being disturbed by daft shift systems where you have a quick change over so that you were off 8 hours before being back on (Continental system as it was known) in the Police were a killer. Thing is instead of having a week of night, lates and then earlies you condensed your workingweek by 16 hours so were off longer and sooner on rest days. Thing is you needed to be because you were knackered! Having recently retired from funeral care where regularly we had a week of on call where we would be called out in the night to collect the deceased was worse for me than working full nights. A colleague I worked with told me how he nearly fell asleep at the wheel just a few miles from his house returning from a call out. It was only 11pm! He then told me that he didn't go to bed when he was on call because he could not stand having to wake up and go out straight away. So rather than have any sleep at all he would try and stay up all night but his wife then didn't think he should be sleeping in the day. Hence he was exhausted. As someone has already pointed out there are those who do not have a full sleep period and look like Zombies when they rock up for work. Those people are their own worst enemy as they will be watching crap on telly or playing games instead of resting then expect to go to work and perform to the required level and they can't. Are they going to be honest and use a confidential system to report they are tired? I don't think so. Human error is difficult, if not impossible to eliminate and reporting systems will not work for those who do not have the commons sense to ensure they are fit for work. It would seem that there are many lessons to be learned from this tragedy including the fitness of the trams themselves. Whether the driver was at fault or not does not seem to have been proved one way or the other but the fact that they have established there is a fear culture needs to be stamped on very quickly and acted upon.

Lincolnshire roads are notoriously bad and whilst I agree the A16 is by no means the worst it is dreadfully slow with mobile chicanes being driven by people unable to drive to a standard that alows anything approaching the NSL, hence they don't. There are frequent accidents on there which often causes delays or closures. Then when you get to the outskirts of Grimsby around the Waltham Tollbar the traffic just backs up at peak times as I experienced this afternoon coming out of Grimsby. For that reason I would imagine that many people having to travel one way or the other for work would be glad of an alternative it it were reliable and cost effective. I think many people would be surprised at just how much it does cost to travel to work and back on a daily basis if taking into account all the costs. GCT of course was eaten up by Stagecoach many moons ago as was Lincolnshire Roadcar. There are minibuses running about but they are the dial a ride sort of thing and there are no other companies offering a scheduled service within the Grimsby, Cleethorpes or Immingham area. Hull has East Yorkshire Traction, Scunthorpe Hornsby and Lincoln PC Coaches. Grimsby is a monopoly and I always wondered why another company didn't try and infiltrate until I was informed about the tactics employed by Stagecoach to make sure no one else stood a chance. So maybe not yet but at some point in the not too distant future there has to be a viable alternative to road transport in this area. As much as I wish the Lincs Wolds Railway the best with their plans to extend as far as the Fairfield Industrial Estate in Louth they ahve no opportunity to go further towards Grimsby than they have already without serious change. Who knows what the future will hold.

If someone grabbed the bull by the horns and got on with one project then it's progress and success or otherwise could be seen by others and used as a template for what is possible. Little acorns and all that. For what it is worth I have no illusions about old lines being reinstated as we remember them and would be quite happy for any line to be built if it provided a much needed boost to other projects along.

Certainly when I was working from the Grimsby Depot very few routes were commercially viable apart from the busiest town routes and even some of them were subsidised. That is in a town where there is no competition at all. Most of the other (if not all of the other) Depots in the Region such as Hull, Scunthorpe and Lincoln have other companies to compete with. I cannot even say how profitable Grimsby is as a depot because even when the Union Secretary I was never allowed to see the Annual figures when I was in pay talks. I could access Group and Region figures on line but Depot figures were never made available, I suspect that Grimsby was indeed very profitable and was used to bail some of the other Depots out. Is it feasible that an improved and rebuilt rail system locally could even be considered by a Company with feet in both camps?

Here the problem is East Midlands Trains and Stagecoach running some of the same routes. They have a bit of a monopoly really. One Company different sectors. How it all works with Council funding I have no idea. Obviously a Company has to make an overall profit even if that is subsidised on some routes to keep those routes going. Is there a way around it all with the current systems? Probably not.