Rivercider

There is always hope. My first team (Exeter City) spent five seasons there - we were nearly not allowed into the Conference as the club was such a shambles at the time. But once I got my head around the situation it was fine, you still visit the same pub before the game, still go through the same turnstile to the same terrace and stand with the same mates, and it is still 11 v 11, many of our team were former academy lads, and several took their chance well. As has been pointed out in the highest division half of the clubs are former football league. cheers

There is usually no alternative route for dangerous goods traffic, so it has to pass through city centres. More restrictive was what could, or could not, be conveyed on the same train, and whether some traffic had to be separated by a certain distance. The Pink Pages of the Working Manual previously referred to by Mike covered these requirements. Bridgwater Yard when I knew it in the 1970s 1980s and 1990s handled an interesting mix of traffic. As well as the nuclear flask crane compound in the yard the local freight trip loco would visit the Royal Ordnance Factory (ROF) exchange sidings at Puriton. The ROF received and dispatched explosives and propellants, but also regularly received a tank of sulphuric acid from ISC chemicals at Hallen Marsh. The British Cellophane factory just up the line in Bridgwater regularly received tanks of caustic soda, and about one a month a tank of something particularly nasty from Terneutzen in Holland. Add to that the UKF/Shellstar siding at Bridgwater which received trains loads, and wagon loads of fertiliser (some of it with a UN hazard code). Back then I had a reasonable knowledge of what traffic could, or could not, travel together - but the TOPS system would only issue a valid train list if the requirements had been met. I do remember the discharged tank for Terneutzen generally had to be sent away on a Friday (when no explosives were ever dispatched) as it was incompatible with Dangerous Goods class 1, cheers

I believe a lot of the consignments were quite small, on occasions perhaps just a crate or two of small arms ammunition for a local training exercise, picked up and taken away in a land rover. I started in the Bristol Area Freight Centre in 1978 as the traditional vacuum braked wagon load freight network was being run down. There was regular traffic in gunpowder vans going down to Truro (for quarrying I assume?). The empty vans usually came back up on an Exeter to Warrington service, sometimes marshalled next to a nuclear flask, which caused some comment. The Royal Ordnance Factory at Puriton regularly loaded out consignments of explosives and propellants, though they loaded out in vanwides fitted with roller bearings and not gunpowder vans. Each consignment was generally not more than a few tonnes. As I recall each consignment of explosives was 'wired' out to yards and terminals on a need to know basis, each consignment being identified by a four digit number CSxxxx. Generally loadings were higher at the start of the week, particularly Mondays. Explosives would not be left unattended at unmanned locations so traffic would not normally be dispatched on a Friday as it would need to be at the destination location before the weekend, cheers

This is the other side of the building looking east. 37247 and 37274 pass with an empty iron ore set from Llanwern to Port Talbot, 15/7/80 And looking west towards Cardiff there is empty stock in platform 1, 37185 has arrived with empty stock and will run round to work the 17.05 to Swansea. Note the headcode has been wound round to match the loco number, 10/9/79 cheers

I hope TT is successful in the UK. But if a stock becomes available to make a branch line terminus feasible then I would not expect many 'new' track plans to emerge. Rather some of the favourite existing 4mm track plans would work better and look more realistic when allowed to 'breathe' in the relatively greater space available, cheers

I thought it was another great show at Nailsea, one of my favourite venues. For what it is worth Tellindalloch was my 'best in show', I really loved the trees, and the sound of a steam whistle, or Sulzer quietly ticking over really enhanced the scene. Well done. cheers

It was great to see Blackmoor Gate this afternoon, as part of a very enjoyable show at Nailsea. I thought it very nicely done, and with a good atmosphere. I should have introduced myself properly - we had a chat about the proposed route of the 'new' line amongst other things. cheers Kevin

Many thanks Johnster for the latest instalment of this fascinating thread, I am in danger of being late for work this morning. Back on page three (fnarr fnarr) I enjoyed the pictures of Ninian Park posted by Halvarras, which helped illustrate the thread, and brought out more anecdotes and information. I took photos from about 1978 and some were of locations mentioned so far. I can find some photos that include freight working, and some with brake vans. Do you mind if I add a few, especially some that show details of the yards mentioned? cheers

I am not much of a modeller myself, and seldom now play with my glorified shunting plank at home. I much prefer to go to exhibitions, and see other layouts, and over the last 15 years or so I have tried to get to perhaps 10 exhibitions a year. I appreciate highly detailed locos and stock, and well observed scenery - but will always spend time watching a layout where there is shunting, marshalling, or other train work being carried out. A well operated layout, where movements all appear to have a purpose, will always entertain me whether it be a loco depot, branch line terminus, or busy main line station. I do see many layouts not operated to anywhere near their apparent complexity, but can appreciate this may be for a number of reasons (shortage of operators, lack of stock, unreliability of track, or lack of knowledge of the actual operation, etc). To me a convincing, highly detailed layout, operated realistically, is a joy to behold, cheers

Amalgamated with...... cheers

I am just catching up with this fascinating thread. Like Philou I consulted a map to see where we were going with the trip working. I already had a basic idea of the area, but found the OS 25 inch to the mile map(s) to be great to follow the moves. My 30 year railway career was spent almost entirely behind a desk. I too was a railway enthusiast before I joined, and I too was fortunate to be able to learn from many experienced older railwaymen (and women). who were happy to pass on their knowledge and experience. Edit - I like the quote 'I am enthusiastic about railways, but since that morning have never regarded myself as a railway enthusiast. It's a difference of attitude, and difficult to explain quantitatively, but nonetheless genuine and real.' That is a feeling that I too sometimes get, - it is hard to put into words. Many thanks for taking the time to write up these memoirs, cheers

Sealions, which were dual braked and became TOPS code YGH, were introduced in 1970. A few were air braked only from new and were classified as Seacows becoming TOPS code YGB. They were all olive green when new. More new airbraked only Seacows (TOPS code YGB) were introduced in 1981, they were in dutch livery from new, cheers

My dad was a wagon supervisor for the WR civil engineers. During the school holidays he sometimes took me with him, so during the mid/late 1970s I visited quite a few engineers yards and depots. My memory of the time told me that could not recall seeing any gulf red stock, but after reading and contributing to a number of threads on RMweb about engineers stock I realise my memory was wrong. I had been seeing wagons in gulf red, but by the mid 1970s they were mostly rusty brown. Here is a photo off Flickr from about 1969 posted by John Turner, which is how I remember them. There is a comment by Paul Bartlett on the Flickr site about the gulf red livery. cheers

I think the phosphoric acid to Ince & Elton came from ISC Chemicals at Hallen Marsh. A block train ran about once a week when I joined Bristol TOPS in October 1978, but ceased within a year or two - locally referred to by some as the phosacid tanks. cheers

The last photo is York Yard North looking north at a southbound train, (Dringhouses is/was south of York). Edit - I should also add thanks for posting these. I travelled up to York a few times, and have happy memories of time spent at York Yard North, cheers

Regarding English rugby, and the English Premiership. It was my impression that every (surviving) club was in debt. Exeter Chiefs owing over £10m, and most of the other clubs owing over £25m. The loss of two home fixtures for each of the remaining clubs cannot have helped the finances for the current season. I know it is comparing apples with oranges, but a professional rugby club needs a far bigger squad than a professional football team, in order to have specialist replacements in certain positions. Exeter Chiefs have over 70 players listed on their site, (though some will be part of the reserve set up). Exeter City football club have 26 players listed in the first team squad, though some additional academy players will have been involved with some fixtures. Exeter City football club in the third tier of football are averaging over 5,000 attendance per home match, while Exeter Chiefs are averaging about 11,000 in the Premiership. cheers

Over the years there have been a number of threads about the TPOs, there may be some with info for the dates you are interested in. If you search RMweb including 'TPO' in the thread title it may throw up a useful thread. This thread 'TPO and parcel trains' attracted a lot of knowledgeable replies. Some trains conveying TPOs ran for many years, and although the formation might have varied over time you should get an idea or two. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/44975-tpo-and-parcel-trains/#comment-492190 cheers

Assuming your layout to be a roundy then if your fiddle yard is large enough, (and your pockets deep enough) you might want one loaded train travelling in one direction, and a set of empties going the other way. This would simulate traffic from the coal fields heading towards industry/London/ports for export. You might find loads and empties on the same train, but more likely in two or three distinct blocks rather than randomly mixed up, as if the train has already called elsewhere to drop off some loads, and pick up empties. Back then there were no fixed rakes of wagons as such, but in order to maximise the use of locos and train crew where there was sufficient traffic on offer each yard would attempt to make up a full train load if they could. A less than full train would not be out of place though, cheers

The Wellington Bank/Whiteball Tunnel bottleneck was just one place where delays took place on summer Saturdays. At the height of the summer Saturday traffic there were delays waiting the platform at Paignton, with trains blocked back to Aller Junction. Also as holidaymakers alighted at Dawlish and Teignmouth the trains would overstay the booked station time, this caused trains to block back to Exeter St David's, (this was the principal reason for the GWR proposed the inland diversionary route as fast trains could avoid the coast). cheers

Might a 28xx have ever worked the coal traffic from Kingswear to Torquay Hollicombe Gas works? Weight wise I think a 28xx would be permitted over the route, but I don't remember seeing pictures of one there in BR days. I don't think many (any) 28xx were allocated to depots in Devon and Cornwall, and the coal was worked more as a block train, so would not be classed as a pick up freight as it did not normally shunt on the way. cheers

I would agree that even a basic trolley service would be appreciated on some of these services, in the Alpha Line/Wessex Trains era I think some of the 158 operated services into the West Country had trolleys. I make occasional leisure journeys from Weston down to Exeter, and sometimes into Cornwall, my journeys sometimes last between 3 and 4 hours, so some form of refreshment would be nice. I would not of course expect a trolley on every service, but trains I use at certain times of the day are well used, often by passengers travelling a considerable distance. Never mind bikes but on our recent Cornwall break I did notice a couple of surfboards being loaded onto IETs, which I think is not permitted... cheers

Although I realise all good things must come to an end I too have a fondness for the HSTs. I started on BR in 1977 quite soon after they were introduced onto the Taunton/Weston to Paddington services, so HSTs were a constant feature of my commute to work in Bristol and various other offices (including Swindon) for 30 years. The introduction of the Castle Class 2+4 sets on the Cardiff - Taunton service in 2017 means that HSTs have been performing commuter work on the Bristol - Taunton route continuously for over 45 years. A couple of weeks ago me and Mrs Rivercider had a short break staying at Camborne (where the trains do in fact stop Wednesdays - despite Jethro). We travelled throughout by public transport going down and back, and for our four day trips, using 12 different services over the stay. The trains were worked by 7 x HSTs, 3 x IETs, and 2 x150s (St Ives Branch). All trains were on time, but I did notice on the HST trip home that the set had a number of apparent defects with air-con, doors, and toilets. cheers

Edit - thanks for buying the books, if they have helped anyone modelling the 1980s that is a good thing. I always like the freight based layouts you have produced. Here is another photo off Flickr of Exeter Central with 31456 by Steve McMullin taken 20/6/88, with some pipes visible. Photo by Steve McMullin. cheers

We have had a thread or two before about cement terminals, I posted a couple of my pictures, but I can't find them now, Exeter Central Blue Circle Cement depot. I believe last time I posted this photo the brick building located this side of the cement silo was identified as the compressor house. Note that the former Fyffes warehouse on the right hand siding was by then used by Premier Transport, who handled cartage and cranage for Speedlink traffic including Guinness from Park Royal, 17/7/85 cheers

Funnily the subject of rationalising or relocating the shops in our town centre is something I have mentioned to Mrs Rivercider a few times. Weston (no doubt like many other town centres) has many empty retail units. In Weston they are scattered across the town centre. Some streets have fared well with most units still open and trading. Other streets on the fringes of the town centre now have more closed units (or have been converted back to residential) than those that remain trading, and this must surely be detrimental to the surviving shops to be surrounded by closed or derelict premises. To my mind it would make sense if the streets fringing the town centre were to revert to residential use, while all the trading shops and cafes gathered together in the centre of town for a more compact shopping centre. Of course there are many reasons why that would not take place, cheers