micklner

Hi all

I have seen the horsebox picture Silver fox mentions. It appears to be filthy and could be any colour !! certainly a dark colour.

Tatlow in a MRJ build of a Chivers ex NER Bogie CCT painted from memoryTriumph Russet Brown which i believe is a Dark Brown ? . I have the magazine in the shed, its too wet here and dark to confirm at mo.

.

Mick

ArthurK is quite right about the A4 colour. Precision is the best match, but I personally think that this is correct only for a 4mm model! Just as an aside, the original A4 Garter Blue was exactly the same shade as used by Bugatti for the French racing team that being their National colour - it was HNG's tribute to Ettoire who helped him with the airflow experiments.

 

Back to NPCS - I will dig out some photos and post them here tomorrow.

A bit like this one , from this years Goodwood Festival of Speed.I have never realised the connection before

thanks

Mick

I think that every effort has been made to get as near as is possible to the original. The examples given, which were matched about 45 years ago, had not been exposed to the usual elements and had been cleaned with T Cut to get back to the true hue. They were also classified using the Mansell system of colour coding which enable the colours to be reproduced now.

 

Shades do change and I have used lightened Garter Blue and Crimson on a 4mm A4 which was supposed to have been near to overhaul, and by goodness it does look different!

 

As far as NPCS Brown is concerned, the original colour from 1923 was more of a GW chocolate brown, but the colour was pretty unstable and degraded to the light umber brown in time, especially since MPCS was not overhauled and repainted that often. The first use of the 'teak' colour (HR143 I think) was the LLCK produced in 1939 or thereabouts. The works drawing actually specifies that this paint is to be used in future. However, since I model the 1930-40 period I do tend to use HR143 or Precision with varying dgrees of lightening.

Have you a photo of a model in HR143 as I cant find it on any Humbrol Colour Chart on the net. Or which Precision shade are you using please

Mick

Hi

Not sure as to what I am wrong about.? The Coronation colours or the comment re shades?

Paint by its nature no matter where its kept will change in shade simply from age let alone from any other enviromental effects. I have models which were boxed for 20 years when removed they had faded albeit slightly.

As to railways it must be one of the most hostile enviroments for any paint even after a few weeks exposure the shades would change.

Personally as long as its a reasonable match I am more than happy!! If you have by any chance any Humbrol LNER NCPS Brown I would love to know what colour that is please !!

cheers

mick

Mick

 

The 4" Gill Sans capitals in dark blue go on the bodyside near the doors as per the elegantsteam drawing. He shows them as being chrome which is wrong! 'A' goes on the vehicle nearest London and so on...

 

I have had time to look at some of the other illustations and there are quite a few errors. The sooner I get my LNERR Livery manuscript to Wild Swan the better!

Well in reply to the last poster the only comment I can see that is relevant on my thread is the "Coach ID letters should be Blue not Silver". I agree with this as do Fox transfers. As to other errors perhaps a PM to Silver Fox by the poster will confirm as to what they are ??

Re the Coronation /West Riding sets the upper bodycolour is Marlbourgh Blue and the bottom as far as I know Garter blue as the A4's. I have never seen a comment stating they had white upper panels.

Re the comments re colour shades you can argue re shades for ever as I doubt if the actual colours will ever be known exactly due to it being 80 years ago etc etc.

Mick

Precision Teak Cream undercoat.

Then add a few dots of matt black here and there on the panels. I then draw thined LNER Teak and Weathered teak across the cream in grain direction until happy with result. The matt black blends in with the other colours and adds a little further bit of variation.

The Cream undercoat must be well hardened first to avoid it lifting under the thinned top coat. Then a top coat of Satin Varnish. Started on the underframe today should be finished soon.

Mick

Progress on the Pigeon Van. The photo I have of below confirms unlined Teak livery with no rainstrip on the roof. The one on the kit is overscale anyway.

The van is similar colour both sides, Camera decided otherwise !!

Mick

try here

http://www.stationcolours.info/

Mick

One Jubilee side finished using Fox Transfers for the lettering and lining both good quality. I have to contact Fox as my sheets had no 1st and 3rd class numbers?? I have used ones from their Coronation sheet which are ID the problem is that there are not enough to cover the Silver Jubilee coaches

Finally got around to buying a Chivers Pigeon Van. I have added brass handrails (a bit of a pain to do) and a MJT guards ducket. At the moment I am trying to establish lettering format for LNER days it will be in Teak paint finish.

Next up a couple of Hornby conversions.

This A4 took a nose dive of my layout breaking the front moulding off and splitting the roof on one side . This has been repaired but Precison Garter Blue is nothing like the same shade as Hornbys colour . I have therefore got bored with Hornby not producing a Apple Green version so this is the far as I have got with Kingfisher. I have used a spare Finecast Wills single chimney .

No doubt Hornby will do one next year hopefully a parbollic curve version !!

I already had a spare A3 Green chassis via ebay but still needed a corridor tender for her. (You also have to remove the front attachment moulding from the A4 chassis to allow the A3 chassis to fit the A4 body.)

So I again won on e bay a slightly damaged A3 NRM Flying Scotsman version at a bargain price.

I have removed the safety flashes and numbers and added a front vacumn pipe and a Jackson Evans single chimney.Due to the smoke deflectors on the NRM version I also added handrails to the front of the smokebox area.

She will be Salmon Trout once new plates are fixed. Not my favourite name but this and Brown Jack are the only A3's with a Corridor Tender and a Banjo Dome as by the time they were built the A4's had taken the Corridor Tenders. Hornby have left the Corridor Tender door area in Apple Green, it looks strange does anyone know if this is the correct colour ?

Mick

Mick

 

The 4" Gill Sans capitals in dark blue go on the bodyside near the doors as per the elegantsteam drawing. He shows them as being chrome which is wrong! 'A' goes on the vehicle nearest London and so on...

 

I have had time to look at some of the other illustations and there are quite a few errors. The sooner I get my LNERR Livery manuscript to Wild Swan the better!

Sorry I didnt mean the large letters side door letters. On the Fox sheet there are four each of tiny 1mm Blue letters Fox provide a set for each coach???

Underframe now in Charcoal Grey , Bodies also painted I will post some pics when dry

cheers

Mick

Silver Fox

Thanks for the info re the underframe. Good job I have only built two so far at least I have the paint in stock !!

Rob

I have the Fox transfers they appear to be very good covering all the coaches plus the roof boards. Does anyone know where the very small Capital letters supplied on the sheets are placed?? on the coach ends ??

Mick

The elegant steam illustrations are a bit suspect. The colour was originally pale grey Rexine often erroneously called 'silver' grey. When the Rexine began to show signs of wear, the coaches were repainted the same grey as the A4 main body colour, which was quite light in shade.

 

The wheels centres and bogies were A4 charcoal grey with the axle boxes in the much darker grey. The carriage letter designations were in dark blue 'gill sans' capitals.

I agree re Elegant Steam pictures, their Coronation pictures are very dark colours.

Can you explain why the photos I have show the bogies/valances much paler then the A4's valances? Precision sell Charcoal Grey as the A4 valance colour, hence my reasoning for painting my model underframes a paler Grey ?

Harris states the coaches were resprayed Silver after the Rexine/Corrosion problems. I am painting mine Precision A4 Silver Grey which is paler Grey than the Grey I am using for bogies/underframe .

Thanks for the info re wheels as didnt know what colour to paint them. Harris again states Black for the Axleboxes.

cheers

Mick

I can see your pics, Mick. This looks a good start. Whose are the cast bogies you've used? ABS ones have been quite hard to get hold of recently.

Hi J

Cant see them this end unless you click on them

Bogies are rigid version 247 and MJT for the artic bogie.

Just about to top coat the bodies then a bit of lining !!

Mick

Mick, I was just having a closer look at the pictures and it looks like the skirts are fold downs from the floorpan rather than the seperate pieces on my MARC models ones is this the case?

 

Mike Radford has just sent me a few interior shots of these coaches if they are of any interest let me have your email address and will forward them on.

 

This website has some useful impressions of the outsides - http://www.elegantsteam.com/index.html

The coaches are in three sections the chassis/valance sides are pre folded. The interior and the body ( four sides and fixed roof) all screwed together for easy access if needed. I will be using MJT artic units/compensated bogie between the coaches.

The web site is good I personally think the Grey he shows for the Jubilee Coaches is much to dark. Harris describes in his LNER Coach book as colour as Lead Grey which is quite pale Silvery Grey and a Aluminium Roof. A study of pictures shows them to be much lighter than the Silver A4's Loco's valances which Precision Paint call Charcoal Grey

cheers

Mick

Pictures of the interior all the parts fit from below hence the roof is already fixed in place and much easier for painting. Body is in primer at mo.

Kits are from Bleathwood Models a new supplier PM me if you would like further details.

Sorry for minor ranting, so far I see no advantage to the new forum. I will gladly be proved wrong. Hopefully!!!!!!!

cheers

Mick

First new forum post of my current project the 3rd Class Silver Jubilee Coaches .. Mick