wagonbasher

Building development Last week at Doncaster I bought some laser cut windows from Lcut Creative. You will see below that I have two style's of sash window. Just blue tacked in place. Marking up the next three houses for cutting out the windows doors and two entires running front to back into the yard. The fisrt of the upstairs shop windows The overall plan. Each scene will be on its own removable board, to the left I am planning a property with stabling and a 'nail shop'. Andy

I was was also thinking plasterboard would be better. I am doing the same job, admittedly to a modern but single brick build but I will just tape the joints with paper and paint the whole thing. andy

thank you, that is is excellent Andy

I realised today that the link I included above has a series of Birmingham and Aston Kitson tram locomotives. Tram locomotive Number 27 of 1886 does show that the chimney with just the one window in the central panel. The tram in Hull is Northern Ireland's Portstewart Tramway No' 1 of 1882. Andy

The standen figure ooks like a super hero compared with the new purchases.. just off shiney and ever heavy... its white metal man Andy

I didn't snap the loco in full, there is photo off the net up at the start of the thread so I concentrated on detail and learnt a number of things. Most pictures of steam trams are taken from the firebox end, that is the main direction of travel, even to the point where they would build triangles rather than run around loops at the terminus. This is the chimney end and shows the central window in two parts, the firebox end has just the one. This brand new 4 window Kitson, built for the Birmingham and Aston in 1885 appears to have just the one central window that mimic the firebox end, I did think that maybe the door was open and that's why it looks like one but you will see its not a door, a surprise to me. http://www.tramwaybadgesandbuttons.com/page148/page4/styled-44/page473.html The Birmingham and Midland photographs I have don't show that end of the locomotive and the two drawings I have of a Central Birmingham Tramways four window Kitson also omit that bit of data. Need to make a decision... Not also the roof bracket is more ornate on the Aston tram, maybe the ones in hull are replacements? Not a door ? I had always assumed there was a door at both ends, you can see that there is no gaps to suggest the panel opens except the bottom half is hinged so it can lift upwards. This is to clean / empty the smoke box which is immediately behind it. Also no door handle! Base of chimney self explanatory, supporting strap to body.. Sorry its on its side. This is also the unphotographed / chimney end, I hadn't realise that the end of the cyliders are slightly exposed, The dome.. not as per my plan. The plan is more elegant, more Victorian without all of the what I call 'gubins' on show I will drop a note to my friend Nigel, he gets this stuff. Back head and controls, the small rectangular tank sitting on top of the boiler / firebox is on my plan. Coke bunker, another tank.. I had thought I had read that the water tank was between the frames? There don't appear to be any sand pipes on the plans ?? Strengthening bar from one end of the body to the other, not apparent on the Aston tram on the link.. Condenser, certainly no roof above the pipes as my plan had suggested. The museum was quite and so was Hull at the museum quarter end... Other than a continuous conveyor belt of weddings at the registry office.. Andy

If you want layouts, that's the wrong show. There were about four layouts, smallish but then it's a one day show. i knew this before I went, this is predominately a trade show with good demonstrations and society stands. trade is so important to 7mm modellers as so little is available ready to run.. all trade was busy, the room seemed crowded with a good buzz... I would have thought the organisers will be pleased with the turn out. i wanted to catch up with Rob Pulham who was demonstrating his silhouette cutter but there was great interest in his work and he was always engaged in deep conversation whilst his cutter quietly worked its way down another sheet of plasticard. More about the kitson tomorrow. Andy

Off to doncaster 0 gauge guild event tomorrow. Not heavy on layouts but lots of 7mm trade, got my shopping list. After that myself and the super patient mrs banks are off to hull street life to take some pictures of the uk's only preserved kitson steam tram. it is stuffed and mounted and is not identical to my prototype but I hope to further my knowledge and get a few snaps. andy

I've just taken delivery of a reprint of an 1894 book. Tramways, their construction and working. by D Kinnear Clake CE. £10.00 for 758 pages and covers in incredible detail, track construction history and practise, development of horse and steam tram trailer cars, steam, cable, early electric, cost of running tramways, other countries practise... it just goes on. the original (which I see will cost you £150). had a few pull out sections that have been reduced to A5 but the one that interested me, the falcon steam trailer drawing I had already obtained from crich very helpful library. Track seams to be laid very lightly, especially to my eye as I have watched out my office window the construction of the station approach at wolverhampton and seen the hundreds of tonnes of concrete used to create the base and then surround the rails. i had better get reading. andy

Well, if he's lucky! This isn't the busiest corner of Rmweb Andy

Hard to tell, ive now looked. Is the inside part of the rail moulded into the 3D model ? I'm also less sure about points, switches and radiuses in that early period. A bit more research required. I like what Red devil is doing, I have also scribed cobbles in the past and I am reasonably happy doing that. The early tramway contracts only required operators to maintain 18 inches beyond the outside rails so a strip of cobbles around the rails on a street of dust and mud was common. Andy

I haven't but will..... Andy

As I have chosen to model a narrow gauge system at 3'6" gauge there are no gauges available for Back to Backs or track contruction. I hope to use the same approach as Red devil has written about where a sandwich of rail, spacer and a further, thinner upright metal section all comes together to form a slot for the wheels to run in as per tramtrack. If I knew how to do It, would add a link, he has covered it in his Grimestreet thread (I think). This is todays efforts One 16mm track gauge amended using 4M washers and one 3M washer to get the gauge correct (The 3M washer is also thinner). In fact the 3M washer was a pain because the gauges are an imperial 1/8th and so I had to open out the inside of the 3M washer and then loose any burs.... After trying a round file, then my pillar drill, all to hopeless effect, I used a milling tool (sort of dentist stuff) on a mini drill. In action on test piece, not exactly central on the sleepers...... I had other things on my mind. I need to get some rail to play with in order to get my backs to backs correct, again no recognised standard or B2B gauge I could buy, even then it might not suite the slot in the rail approach. The shiny cylinder between the rails is a spacer (unthreaded) that you can buy from electrical components suppliers. I think they are used, threaded and unthreaded to mount PCB's. they create a space behind the PCB for all of the wires to come and go. This is 20mm long 5 mm wide with a M3 clearance and I hope its work. I expect to use three like this as frame spacers. I can use 3M threaded rod with nuts on the outside (one of the benefits of a chassis that no one will see). I think that is all for now. Please comment, this is not a 'how its done', this is a 'how I'm doing it'. If I am doing something wrong or missing a trick please say. Andy

That's a lot to take in.... More questions than answers. What is the layout, is it on RMweb? What is the company/ companies you are modelling. The track looks narrow gauge like mine? I think your work looks fantastic. Sorry, more questions, Trailers. So, 3D printed, could be printed in a bigger scale ?? Is this something you are doing yourself or have commissioned etc, Is there a way in which I could buy a 7mm version, happy to pay the going rate. Trust me I am scratch building because there is nothing available. What are you doing about stairs... probably one of the trickiest bits? Locomotive Is that etched, your own etc? That does not look like a worm gear? how is it propelled? Condenser. The drawing I have from Terry Russell shows the locomotive (this is a Birmingham Central Tramways locomotive) with a roof covering the pipes with the ends open and a full width gap in the roof to accommodate the chimney. Is that how you are modelling yours with a roof hiding most of the 260 pipes, from the face of it the design was quite standard however looking at photographs if there were variants between steam trams it was often the condenser that changes. I'm planning a trip to Hull to see the Kitson there and I have a reprint of Kinnear's 1894 'Tramways, their construction and workings' on order so hoping to fill in some gaps. I've also no idea what the back plate / boiler fittings looked like. I made a 4mm steam tram in my late teens (a long time ago). It was built out of plasticard , around a BEC bogie (1 bogie off. a bogie car), the bogie filled the locomotive!! Its was crude and I used to drag around an unpowered Blackpool dreadnaught as a trailer. Like so many model trams, It went like a rocket, no one ever commented! If you have a thread or a blog, let me know an I can follow. Andy

I don't know the individuals or the show but as a serious modeller those pictures and Peters words tonight on radio 4 cut straight to my heart. I cant imagine the pain and emotion. It is a modellers time and care and skill they invest into their models that is the irreplaceable, no compensation can replace. Thoughts are with everyone who had invested time and their models in that event Andy

It is Slaters. I do know what you mean. In fact if you look at the close up of the corner you will see the bricks align but a look at the shop front picture, the ground floor it has drifted out. Andy

I have not been idle I am laminating 5 layers of 10 thou Plasticard to make the structural shapes. Laminating is allowed to cure slowly between two pieces of glass (thought I was going to have to get some cut somewhere until I remembered picture frames - cheep as chips) !! The solvent is key to this D Limonene. slow none aggressive, allows time to pint it out on bigger areas and time to move a little. You will see I use a hard square surface to ensure the layers are all lined up. Rob Pullman, of this web site produces some amazing woirk and uses a cutter like mine to produce full size 0 gauge coaches, he has given me advice before and after I bought the cutter. The detail, panelling is added using Humbrel precision poly cement. I said I had been working on some buildings. The part of the Black country the trams run through would have been a common scene, Back to back, industry at home, nail making, chain making, pubs and chapels.. First up the first part of a row of 8 back to back cottages (that is four houses to the front and four to the back, The first building is lightly larger (just for interest) and the front is a shop. There will be a yard with wash house, dry toilets and washing lines. Using the National Trust Birmingham back to backs for inspiration. https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/birmingham-back-to-backs I have ordered some bits to start the chassis for the Kitson. I also see you can buy 3D printed gutter components, and ridge tiles and reasonable value chimney pots.. I need 6 for this building alone (one fire in each room / storey in both the front and the rear house. More to follow Andy

I've started some buildings as well, as I said I will model on a number of fronts so there is always something to do. the cutter should manage windows, either as plastic or address labels. andy

I promised some photos There is a lot to do as everything except 7mm figures will have to be scratch built that is locomotive, the trailers, the track, the street and buildings. I have deliberately stated on multiple activities, I find it too easy for projects to stall because I don't have a 'xxxx' so progression on multipul fronts should mean that something is happening' Locomotive I have plans for a Kitson standard (4 window) This is a Birmingham and Midland Kitson with an Oldbury Carriage and wagon trailer' There is a Kitson Standard in a museum in hull Crich has Beyer Peacock locomotive built to the Wilkinson patent for a trial in Sydney Australia, vertical boilered. Its a bit of a beast, bigger than most of the UK locomotives but very similar to Beyer Peacocks on the South Staffs system and I have important dimensions from J S Webbs book on Black Country tramways. Anyway, this is a 'snip' from the silhouette cutters design software, it took a bit to understand it but only because I have not used any design software in the past. : By using copy and paste I can create multiple images of the same component, this is because it wont cut more than 10 thou plastic (it will score 20 thou, but you wont get those windows out) and so I will have to laminate up many layers. The cutter, the blade is in that small cylinder and can be adjusted to different depths The 10 thou plastic sheet is on a tacky cutting mat, it is in the process of cutting here, it takes a while, maybe 20 min's to cut this sheet but you can leave it to it Once cut you peel of the cutting mat If you don't mid I'll stop there today. Modelling time is precious and Sunday morning whilst the family are asleep is golden. Andy

That is all very interesting, some I had picked up and other information is new. i will have to visit the heaton park display i am not adverse to either showing or demonstrating at exhibitions, other than a club layout stafford railway circle, tram layout about 35 years ago my interest has been model railways you can catch up with Black Country Blues and Tackeroo on Rmweb. I have exhibition management experience and do understand the challenges. I will look out some of those events. PRobablyn the o gauge guide next in Telford, being that I'm modelling in Seven mm , not o gauge Andy

For a short period in the late Victorian age the steam tram mobilised the masses in Britains largest conurbations, hauling large trailers filled with passenger numbers the previous horse traction could never have perceived. Within 15 years they moved from state of the art urban transit to dirty, smelly, noisy and unreliable monsters as the miracle that was electric traction rolled across the land. this is what I hope to capture on a small layout with a very simple track layout and as a way of modelling buildings which is probably my main scratch building interest. when, 1885 - 1900, where. The Black Country gauge. 3' 6'. Companies: south Staffs, Birmingham and midland and BET scale 7mm to the foot. theme. Urban, industrial i have a few suitable steam tram drawings and I have started with a kitson 4 window locomotive as per Birmingham and midland. locomotives and trailers will be scratch built mostly in plasticard using a silhouette cutter to produce sections in 10 thou which are then layered up to a suitable thickness. I will ill post some photos later. chassis scratch built chassis in brass strip, 4mm Gibson wheels, high level 120:1 gear box giving a maximum scale speed of 9 miles per hour. trailers will also be silhouette cut panels laminated up. track made from 4mm rail with the groove created using metal strip. buildings will be plasticard, scratch built with help from my silhouette cutter and some resin casting. i will post some pictures this evening. andy

Hi interested in the drive system. Presumably that is a centrally mounted motor using both ends of the drive shaft through some form of flexidrive. I guess the gearing to the bogie needs to be 'handed' as the two ends of drive shaft is rotating in different directions in relation to the bogie. would you please talk us through what you have, is it your work or is this commercially available as a kit. it looks very good and leaves the bottom deck mostly motor free andy

This forum topic is called trams and tramway modelling. that's fine, but most of the active threads are about modern tramways or physical remains of past tramways or their infrastructure. Thats not a complaint, just an observation, those threads meet the brief, I just wonder who's out their modelling what... I can see some London activity but not much else. the national model tram exhibition has died a death, are there layouts out there looking for a stage? what have you got, what are you up to? personally I am working on an unusually tram related project which I will share shortly. come on, showcase your project here........ andy

Hi. I cant answer the spacing between rails question but I have some ideas re curve radius. is it necessary to use the minimum...? the great benefit you have modelling London is that most of the streets in the centre are unchanged. THe street furniture and lane marking may change but the overall shape of the junction is dictated by the buildings and many of the city buildings are still there. If you identify some well photographed London tram junctions, find them on google maps today, change to satellite view and enlarge, then with a right click of the mouse select measuring tool and then by clicking between two points on the map you can measure and map out the junction. Use an old photograph of the junction to see positioning, maybe calling up google street view to compare with today. There will also be areal photographs of London which can be zoomed that do show trams and tramways. I think the website is Britain from above, (if I come out to check I'm bound to lose the post) i guess im saying don't do minimum, do normal. andy

This thread opened on the bottom picture. I instantly recognised it as Alloa, more from my recognition of the prototypes as the model (although I have seen the model). Excellent Andy