wagonbasher

I like the way you can still make out the bottom planks through the tarp, this is very realistic. Modelling things that have naturally taken on a shape though a combination of their physical environment and gravity with our soft, semi soft or rigid modelling materials is very difficult. Andy

Kingspan produce insulation sheets of various thickness. It is high density polyurethane foam with an aluminium foil top and bottom. Wickes sell a 50mm deep sheet. It cuts and carves very easily, it is strong in compression and if filling in between a frame work you can just squeeze it into gaps with a bit of pva. I would not recommend it as a base for your trackwork but that is more about our ability to carve a suitably flat surface and if you want point motors and power feeds the foam gets in the way. You could build the whole layout from a couple of sheets but you would need some timber edging to stop the foam being knocked and bruised. Polystyrene is very similar in use and has the benefit of no foil, don’t worry about mess, it’s just a few days of snow storm and your done. Andy

Looks like most of the manufacturers have been covered, not much on shapeways, I did think…. Airfix Waggon Train, that has a covered wagon and horses, lots of people if you are after that Wild West look? Then I discovered how rare they are and what value they now sell for (well, are advertised for). I have just looked at the figures in the set, I have to smile, the horses are in an action pose (not sure if that’s walking, trotting, cantering, I’m not brave enough to say for fear of the QI elephant) but 2 of the figures are seated on boxes and 2 are relaxing, lying down. seriously, a couple of the characters not carrying guns could easily be suitable for a Victorian scene (same period different continent) Andy

One source of first hand experience is an article covered=over two editions of ‘Modern Tramway’ an Ian Allen publication. Volume 28, numbers 328 and 329 dated April and May 1965. I was between 4 and 5 months old…. Memories of Birmingham Steam trams. C Gilbert. Mr Gilbert was clearly a regular user if the Birmingham central tramways, a keen observer and in my opinion an enthusiast. He details the system, the colour light and letter coding for destinations. Details about what the locomotives carried in terms of tools, locomotive and trailer braking, operations at termini, servicing, depots, couplings and operation. He also details of incidents, accidents and run aways he experienced in his 2500 miles per year he was travelling on the trams. He talks of the way the different locomotives performed and how they were operated. Priceless incite. Andy

A thought, an observation for discussion by the thread I know will know (no pressure) Sorry if this has been covered here before, so much has. Last week though my work in Tarmac I visited Gaston docks on the Mersey. I was there because that is where a lot of aggregates are imported into the uk. Some are sands dredged from the Mersey and others come from further afield like Spain etc. There was no apparent export traffic anymore. Powerful mobile grabs for unload ships and load lorries. You couldn’t miss the back drop of the dock itself and the massive Victorian red sandstone retaining walls and this demanded that once home I found out what it was originally all for. Coal, I know you know. Loading from Capstan, straight into the hold emptying through end doors. of course the wagon would need to be presented the right way for emptying as the doors are only at one end and elsewhere in the process they would be turned if necessary. Once empty and hauled back up they were pushed down the line of empty wagons and a new full wagon would move up to the capstan. The empty wagons would all have their doors at the same end. My thought, my observation? there must have been train loads of wagons leaving the docks with the end doors all in the same orientation. In fact if they were on a shuttle, colliery to dock, back to colliery and so on, there would be no reason to change the orientation at the colliery. So is it fair to say, that coal wagons often ran in trains of wagons exhibiting the same orientation, doors all at one end.? Andy

Please don’t turn it off I enjoy the bit I can see on my iPad between the ads. Even as I type I can’t see my words but I know I can get mouser electronics Opamps for battery powered installations. I’m not sure what that is but I may one day. Sorry,didn't mean to drift off topic. Andy

Kerr Stuart internal combustion maybe, not my strength. Andy

Hi Do you know where you went wrong? I have made some Cambrian BBA’s and BAA’s. I built them for Black Country Blues when we first started and I knew we were incorporating a steel works exchange sidings. They rarely ran on the layout because in my hast I didn’t realise that they were not really a feature of Black Country steel traffic. You have picked a difficult kit to cut your wagon building teeth on. The fact the main floor comes in two halves, tricky bogies, I changed the bogies so they pivot on brass bolts rather the plastic arrangement as supplied. It might be wise to try a straight forward 4 wheel wagon first, maybe someone could suggest something that would suite steel traffic? A couple of points re plastic wagon kit construction, I apologise if you know all this stuff but it is worth saying. Good light, your glasses if you need them like me an a cutting mat. Always find a picture to base your model on. It may be a couple of pictures (it is fair to say the wagon you have picked got chopped about quite a lot of the years) Craft knife something small and keep it sharp, regularly change the blades. Once you have carefully cut the parts from the spru, make sure they are cleaned up with a small file, remove mould marks and any residual parts of the spru. (Careful what you are chopping off, check that photo) Dry run, try each part you are about to join without the adhesive, check they fit first. Use solvent adhesives, not that gloopy stuff in tubes they sell kids making airfix planes. Definitely don’t use super glue. I’m not saying that there is no space in a modellers tool box for SG but it’s not needed here. Apply solvent with a small brush. If you don’t know what I mean, please ask, this is really important. if you are joining two parts at 90 degrees, try to find something to hold them square. It might be a modelling square or just the edge of a piece of strip timber. Defo paint afterwards, fill any gaps with milliput if necessary Prim with the the Halford plastic primer if you can. You can spray outside weather permitting, go easy don’t apply too much. Many thin coats. your prototypes were often in very poor aesthetic appearance due to the hard nature of their work, there is a whole world of weathering videos but there is plenty of time for that later Hope that helps Andy

Sorry,just rer read your post and your talking Birmingham and Aston. They operated to 1902~as steam so Ok reboilering is a necessary cost. Andy

You can buy a general arrangement plan for a Kitson 4 panel (I think they are 7mm drawings but maybe I requested that) from Terry Russell, he sells components and parts from tramway modelling, not steam. There is a very detailed drawing in a big fat book, D Kinnear Clark, Tramways, their construction and working, of 1894. I am a little surprised that the Birmingham and Midland were having engines reboilered. They sold out to British Electric Traction in 1899, the whole steam adventure was falling apart. They did buy the ex Dudley, Stourbridge , Steam Tramways, maybe they had to invest in those. In saying that BET did continue to run the steam trams for several years after the takeover so I suppose if some of your diminishing fleet needs to be reboilered then I guess they have no choice. Livery, I know the spec, the words but I haven’t got to that bit yet. There is an RM web member called Andy Bailey, also works at Crich. He was modelling a narrow gauge 4mm Kitson 4 window from what looks like an etch. you will find on this thread in the first couple of pages, may be worth a PM. Andy

Those sleepers are completely different to the ones in Wolves…. The other end of the line is laid on sleepers that are two concrete ‘feet’ joined together with two lengths of steel angle, probably 50mm angle. How odd. Andy

I am sorry to hear you have been so poorly, you are the rock that holds up this trams and tramway modelling section of RMweb. I am always in awe of your knowledge of London trams both ancient and modern. Please look after yourself. Andy

Personally, and it really is a personal view with no judgement. Nothing, gives me greater pleasure and reward on Rm web than giving advise and maybe, hopefully, helping someone and moving the hobby on a bit. I think that is what it is all about. Ohh, the daffodil's back. Andy

the garden birds are better than the daffodil but, but i like the under waterviews of the turtle, well i did for a while. Happy to be part of the trial. ohh a chaffinch, or is that a bull finch? Andy

An observation from the last comment, Many societies are not legal entities, there is little legal responsibility or expectation on behalf of the members. Transactions undertaken by the officers of the society are legally in the officers name with all of the liability that comes with it. This is why model railway clubs that organise 'big' shows operate as public limited liability companies because the individual that books the hall or the accommodation is personally responsible for any costs in the event of a legal dispute. It can take all of the fun out of it. Andy

Who says the adverts are for useless irrelevant items. I saw the words 'Pasties by Post' on one of those middle of the screen ads. It was there just micro seconds before I dumped it. What's not to like, Imagine a knock on the door and there is the postie with a pastie, (sort of rhymes) but, too late, my brain had already committed my fingers to instant click close. I will have to wait for it to pop up again. Andy

Hmm, back to the darkened room. Andy

That bus has wheels, well 2. Or at least I can see 1 and 1/2 wheels. Can you have half a wheel? if it is only a half it cant roll does that means its ceases to be a wheel (phylosophically). Oh dear, over thinking again. Andy

How sad, a stemmed glass as well, very sophisticated. I just looked at eBay, there are lots of Theakston glasses, even tankards and some are stemmed but none like yours. I mean, as yours would have been obvs. Years ago I went into a builders merchants and fetched a curved ridge tile with a great lump missing out of my van and asked the guy in the yard if they had anything like this? He looked and smugly said, no, not with a bit missing like that. Andy

18 hours after posting, 74 views and no replies.. So observations. Although it is very crude in parts like the bogie sides there are details like the top lights (is that what you call them) and are those air vents? would suggest it is being based on a prototype. Not British, there was not that much streamline development in this country and less so in single decks, to the point where most of the RM web tramway contributors can list them. Not sure if that helped, it might flush out a few more replies? Andy

Probably still need to know size and number of spokes.. Andy

The answer is in this video at about 8 or 9 seconds in, you will be surprised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w51bgeXlHuc Andy

Also interested to hear what the differences are, I watch the construction at the Wolverhampton end in detail from my 1st story office? Have no experience of European practise. Andy

Thank you all for your input. I was looking at an eBay post shortly after posting when I spotted the ‘Euroslot’. The thing you hang the model from wether a single or double peg when I realised the horse bus was too small. As it says, designed for the box, Looks like the die cast route is not an option, odd that Odell started lledo with variscale vintage horse drawn vehicles, I can’t see the market, even then.,, maybe looking for gaps Again, thank you all, I will put my £0.99 plus postage to a worthier cause. Andy

I have been looking at lledo days gone range and they have a small selection of horse drawn vehicles. Considering buying, improving, repainting etc for a 7mm Victorian model but are they all 1:43 scale. eBay lists some at that size but most sellers have excluded scale in the write up. Looking at the horse drawn bus they are a very low price, would need to change the horses (they are quite corse), wheels ? etc. You get 5 passengers, maybe it’s 4 and a driver, if they are 7mm the figures are worth £4 a piece anyway. Anyone know this range. Andy