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Revolution Ben
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Perhaps if you don't meet the order requirements in N, a similar exercise would be really useful in OO. I'd take a Silverlink County set in OO for instance. Also, with the way the competitions prices are going I think you could probably get away with charging slightly more per set to even out the risk /  return. 

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I would update the page to make it clear you are not doing a 321/3 - I may be interested in 321/9 and 322 but definitely would buy several (4+) NSE 321/3.

 

As for the point about Kings Lynn and 321s an additional six units were ordered for KL services but these ended up as 443 to 448 (which is why the vehicle numbers are lower than sets 431 to 442). Some 321s were used during the testing of the wires but I am not aware of any being used on services once the through trains switched to KX.

 

Hello Bomag,

 

The research we have done so far has been fairly cursory, since we aren't sure whether there will be the demand to see this through into production, but on another forum it's been suggested that the second batch of 321/3s had the same bodyshells as the 321/4s.

 

To quote: "321301-346 have a small and a medium size window in the first class section behind the cab of the DTCO, while 321347-366 and all 321/4s have a small and a large size window in the first class section." 

 

A very quick image search suggests this may be correct, so maybe we can do a 321/3.

 

But given that this would be a first RTR Mk3 based EMU in N, and given the 321/3s don't appear to me to have run anywhere that 321/4s didn't, I am surprised at your comment that you would buy four 321/3s but not even a single 321/4. 

 

I can understand you not wanting to commit to four of the other type but, assuming we are talking about NSE liveried versions, is it really the case that for the sake of a slight difference in windows in one carriage you would prefer to have none at all?  Even if not perfect is this model still not a huge step in the right direction?

 

It's your choice, of course, but that level of expectation is going to be difficult for any manufacturer to satisfy!

 

Thanks very much too for the information about the Kings Lynn operations - or lack of them.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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Hello Bomag,

 

The research we have done so far has been fairly cursory, since we aren't sure whether there will be the demand to see this through into production, but on another forum it's been suggested that the second batch of 321/3s had the same bodyshells as the 321/4s.

 

To quote: "321301-346 have a small and a medium size window in the first class section behind the cab of the DTCO, while 321347-366 and all 321/4s have a small and a large size window in the first class section." 

 

A very quick image search suggests this may be correct, so maybe we can do a 321/3.

 

But given that this would be a first RTR Mk3 based EMU in N, and given the 321/3s don't appear to me to have run anywhere that 321/4s didn't, I am surprised at your comment that you would buy four 321/3s but not even a single 321/4. 

 

I can understand you not wanting to commit to four of the other type but, assuming we are talking about NSE liveried versions, is it really the case that for the sake of a slight difference in windows in one carriage you would prefer to have none at all?  Even if not perfect is this model still not a huge step in the right direction?

 

It's your choice, of course, but that level of expectation is going to be difficult for any manufacturer to satisfy!

 

Thanks very much too for the information about the Kings Lynn operations - or lack of them.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

The point was not moaning was that you were not doing 321/3 at this point it was that if I was not aware of that and if I put down I would buy 4 NSE 321s you would suddenly find a lower number being actually ordered when the it came to chose (and pay). That would not help you.

 

I will will still be down for a couple (or all three) of 321/9s and some Northern 322 if  you get round to it.

 

In terms of why I would not get a 321/4; while I would buy a 390 on the rule one principle a 321 would need to fit in to the locations I model (in this case West Yorks and GEML 1989/90). While many modellers would get a model if it is just close to what they want with the cost of models something in the 'nice to have' bracket may mean that from some you get a couple ordered instead of six.

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In terms of why I would not get a 321/4; while I would buy a 390 on the rule one principle a 321 would need to fit in to the locations I model (in this case West Yorks and GEML 1989/90)

But you'd buy "4+" 321/3s, in NSE, which surely aren't prototypical...?!

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Warning - Saddo alert, sorry can't resist, whiling away the hours as I am.....

 

There were 321/4s on the Great Eastern as well.

 

Edit:  Oops, fixed them links now 

 

There were no 321/4s on the GEML in 1989/90 (which is the limited period I model for for this area, as I mentioned in my post), there were only the first batch of 321/3s. Your comment would be like saying I was being a bit picky running a  Hawksworth County on a pre-war GWR layout.

 

As I mentioned I am not saying they got it wrong by not doing an early 321/3 but that they should make it clear which options they will be offering. 

Edited by Bomag
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But you'd buy "4+" 321/3s, in NSE, which surely aren't prototypical...?!

 

With my eyesight I can tell the difference between a 321/3 and 321/4 when running, but not reading the set numbers. If you meant that 4 sets would run together, then they would be run as two 8 car sets; however, when testing in 1989 4 set trains did turn up in Colchester yard.

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With respect Bomag I wasn't infering that you were being picky at all, I was just pointing out to anyone who cared that 321/4s did work on the Eastern, thus it wasn't a total game killer.  Yes I see your point about clarifying which version of 321, some of those livery options may be more common on an early 321/3 for certain.

 

However, and again with respect and I outrightly apologise in advance if this causes offence, but, I will state outright that yes, I believe anyone is being picky if they state that they are modelling a very specific time period and will not accept a RTR product unless it is exactly as they require.  If one chooses to have such specific time frame and prototype requirements then, in my opinion I hasten to add, I believe that one has to accept what the RTR manufacturers give us and be fully preparded to modify and adapt them to suit our very specific requirements as best one can by kit bashing, cut'n'shut-ing etc. 

 

I can only speak for myself here, but a modified Revolution 321/4 would be better than any scratchbuilt 321/3 built by my hand for sure.  I too wouldn't mind a layout with an Eastern/Anglian backdrop in the c.1990 window, but if it's going to happen then I know my best option is for Revolution to succeed with this, get myself some 321/4s and then get the plasticard, filler and paint out to change them to 321/3s and/or 322s.  I imagine I'd be long dead before another RTR or Kit manufacturer decides to fill the gap otherwise (oh wait, breaking news, Kernow and Bachmann are going to do a Ltd run of 322s in Stansted Express livery - only £1200 a piece, but I get a certificate. Cha-Ching!).

 

 

Regards,

Paul

 

Paul

 

You fail to understand my point that I am not saying that I won't buy one (or more) but that it was not clear which version was being offered. With the cost of models I can't afford to buy everything, therefore something which is 'near but not quite' is going to be in the queue behind the many models which are right for the periods and locations I model. In this case the £600 which could of gone to a couple of trains worth of 321/3 is probably going to the Dapol 252. If the 321/4 and 321/9 sell well then there may be an early version 321/3 or 322 in which case I would likely buy these in preference to something else.

 

You will always get Rule 1 models which are outside these considerations, e.g. a Cl390 or a Maroon, B/G, or Jaffa CL309 (hint hint).

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Hello Bomag,

 

Thanks for clarifying your position.

 

The Pendolinos - 9-car train, using 5 different bodyshells - are £300 each; we anticipate the 4-car 321s to be around the £160 mark. So pehaps you could have one alongside your Dapol 252, which I agree is a very exciting product...

 

But if I understand you right you are in for a 321/9 in any event, in which case thanks for your support.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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I have put in for a London Midland example; well, if I'm going off piste from Japanese, it had may as well be in keeping with my similar order for the Pendolino! I have also gone for a 456 as well...rude not to really, as I have a soft-spot for these units.

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I'd echo the call for these to be released in OO as well!  I would have at least four. I've an unmade Bratchell unpainted kit which I've never got round to doing. 
 
Anyone wanting a nice Regional Railways/Metro red one from Yorkshire but modelling the ECML - here is a good excuse to get one - 321903 at Kings Cross!  I think there had been problems with either the HSTs or the 225s and all of them had been withdrawn from service - the 321s were pressed in to service as shuttle trains between Leeds and London! http://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-321/i-9XttFBL/A

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Hello Johnpeter,

 

That's a fantastic link - thanks very much.  I have also been sent this link to a shot of a 321 at Preston.  The photographer says it was a one off charter trip, but others have suggested there may have been more visits by 321s to Preston around the turn of the century...

 

http://bit.ly/1Y9v8Lu

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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I once caught two NSE liveried Class 321s one Sunday in 1995 when New Street was closed from he south and trains were diverted to Lichfield TV to connect into the Cross City (the Norwich to Birmingham trains were also running to Lichfield as well, possibly the only time I ever caught a train direct from Norwich to Lichfield).  The 321s were the first service to London on the Sunday and were quite quick. I also caught the short-lived North West Trains Manchester-London via the Trent Valley from Tamworth one time which used the ex-Stanstead Airport Class 322 units, so the units and their brethren have had their moments on the Trent Valley as well.

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Just got back from holiday and first saw this in Rail Express which had dropped through the door - very exciting! 

 

I've registered interest in 2 x NSE sets and 2 x first Great Eastern sets, and might even be tempted into one or two more to help ensure production goes ahead, if it comes to it! I take it the 1000 is across all liveries? Is there anything we can do to help promote the project? 

 

Frankly I'm not bothered about running numbers or whether the 321/3 or /4 is depicted - the prospect of a high quality RTR model with a factory paint job in liveries like NSE leaves any other route to a model of the GEML in the dust. I'd much rather have a high quality model with an incorrect window detail than no model, the effort of building one from scratch, or something bodged together with vinyl. 

 

I'm also slightly surprised at all the requests for a OO version - what is wrong with the Bratchell version? They look very good to me, seem to be effectively ready to run, and are not outlandishly expensive (compared to Bachmann unit trains of similar length etc). 

 

 

Justin

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Hello Justin,

 

Thanks for your support.

 

The best thing anyone can do right now to assist this project is just to tell others about it who might be interested - at the club, on other internet forums, on facebook etc.

 

If anyone is attending a show and wants some flyers just PM me and I will send some.  The same goes for the Class 21/9 project.

 

Alternatively, attached here is a jpg image for an A4 poster about the plan.  Please feel free to download it, forward it to your model railway pals, print it and pin it to the club wall, or at local model shops or wherever.  Compared to our show posters I have made it "printer friendly" by losing the heavily coloured background!

 

post-420-0-12140300-1442862475_thumb.jpg

 

We've had great magazine coverage for the Pendolino so far, and Model Rail, the Hornby Magazine and Rail Express have already featured these new proposals.  But they'll only happen if enough people support it - and for that to happen they first need to know about it!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited by Ben A
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  • Revolution Ben changed the title to Revolution Class 320 & 321 EMUs in N

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