'Correct' ratios of locos to stock

[johnlambert]

I've tried to catalogue my stock, although the list generally lags behind what I've got and it can be difficult to keep track of wagons.  According to the catalogue my collection (N gauge) totals 60 locomotives (excluding multiple units) and 240 items of rolling stock split between 113 passenger carriages, 31 non-passenger coaching stock and 96 wagons of various types including brake vans.  That gives 4 coaches or wagons for each loco to pull.

 

Not everything in my collection fits the same era but the bulk of what I own represents the Bachmann 'Era 5' period of 1957-66 where 33 locos have 116 items of stock to haul, giving a ratio of roughly 3.5 coaches per loco.  I suppose it's a bit loco-centric but it serves my purposes as the rolling stock can be re-formed to represent different workings since I don't have the space to keep a large number of fixed (or semi-fixed) rakes of stock on my layout; maybe one day?

 

I definitely 'need' more wagons for Era 5 as the coaching stock slightly outnumbers wagons; although I'll usually run wagons from earlier eras since that's what happend on the real railway, in which case I can call on roughly 80 wagons versus 50 coaches.  In reality I should probably have 800 wagons but even in N gauge I'd struggle to find the space.

[Baby Deltic]

As has been mentioned already in a couple of posts, I think it all depends on location and era. My exhibition layout 'Sumatra Road' is based on the NLL around Dalston in the 60s. You could see a Jinty or a class 15 on a fairly lengthy train followed by an 8f hauling a couple of minerals and a brake van, plus all of the returning light engine or light engine with brake van moves as the loco's which passed a while back return across London to their home depots. This also opens up the scope for other regions' loco's to haul the same trains back the other way later and then perform the same return moves LE or LE+BV. Therefore you can justify having a good stock of loco's with plenty of variety of types.

[The Johnster]

Cataloging is another matter I haven't got around to, but probably should.  Or maybe not; is it really necessary to know how many vehicles you've got or to keep a list of what alterations you made to them?  It has no bearing on the operation, which is the main point as far as I am concerned.

 

But it is probably indicative of a slightly disorganised approach, and mindset, that even on a very small BLT I could not off hand tell you how many wagons I've got without going in to the railway room and counting them.  As soon as I list them, I will become obsessive about it.  

[Baby Deltic]

I won't divulge how much stock I have on a public forum! ;-)

[Ian Smeeton]

Paisley St James is decidedly stock short at the moment as most of my efforts have been on track building. That will change when it gets too cold in the shed.

 

It has a mix of traffic, but how often and how high will I be strung when an ancient steam loco appears hauling 15 or so unweathered 16 T Mineral wagons?

Running 'Wrong Line'!

 

'Prototype for everything' photo will then be produced showing just such a train!

 

Not only that, but the wagons will be in numerical order. (Pressed Steel at Linwood built several thousand delivered through PSJ to I know not where!)

 

Regards

 

Ian

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

And where they went ... a very striking feature of BR's splurge on obsolescent 16T minerals were short trots of shiny new wagons in among the battered and filthy caravans hauling the coal about. They don't all have to be weathered.

[PatB]

Surely the "correct" ratio is dependent on where and what you're modelling. If your layout is an MPD/TMD, locos will obviously dominate, with a few loco coal wagons/oil tankers/Enparts vans etc. Running an intensive service on a Minories type urban terminus would need probably one tank loco per train of 4-5 suburban coaches, no goods stock and perhaps one rake of parcels vans. That's steam era. Otherwise, a raft of DMUs/EMUs and maybe a Type 2 and a rake of non-corridor Mk1s. A big (in model terms) hump yard, on the other hand, might need 100+ wagons but just a couple of 08s (or 13s I suppose) to provide most of the action. You'd need some main line motive power for incoming and outgoing trains but, depending on your level of suspension of disbelief, not necessarily that much. Others have touched on branch operattions.

 

So the only place the overall prototype ratio is really going to matter is for a main line through station which might be expected to see a full range of traffic to and from diverse areas of the country. Even then, there is plenty of stock that you'd likely never see, as Ravenser has noted.

 

Anyway, there's always Rule 1 .

[Clive Mortimore]

I won't divulge how much stock I have on a public forum! ;-)

Too much when it comes to "packing up time". :nono:

[johnlambert]

Cataloging is another matter I haven't got around to, but probably should.  Or maybe not; is it really necessary to know how many vehicles you've got or to keep a list of what alterations you made to them?  It has no bearing on the operation, which is the main point as far as I am concerned.

 

But it is probably indicative of a slightly disorganised approach, and mindset, that even on a very small BLT I could not off hand tell you how many wagons I've got without going in to the railway room and counting them.  As soon as I list them, I will become obsessive about it.  

In my case it was to help determine what I've got so I could plan future purchases to fill gaps and to try and build a sensible ratio of locos to other stock.  It also means I can plan carriage and wagon working diagrams without having to get everything out.  I've got a few working timetables for the area where my layout is based and I can then arrange suitable stock for each of the day's trains if I want to replicate a day's typical operation.  Pointless really, as it's just me messing about at home and I could run whatever I like, but it helps provide some structure for playing trains.

[Andy Hayter]

Cataloging is another matter I haven't got around to, but probably should.  Or maybe not; is it really necessary to know how many vehicles you've got or to keep a list of what alterations you made to them?  It has no bearing on the operation, which is the main point as far as I am concerned.

 

But it is probably indicative of a slightly disorganised approach, and mindset, that even on a very small BLT I could not off hand tell you how many wagons I've got without going in to the railway room and counting them.  As soon as I list them, I will become obsessive about it.  

 

Cataloguing is perhaps not that important regarding this discussion*, but for insurance purposes I strongly recommend it. 

 

* Although I do do it to help with my train make ups and to spot gaps that can be filled by a rtr purchase, kit build or scratch build.

[Ravenser]

Too much when it comes to "packing up time". :nono:

 

One of the big advantages of a permanent layout

[JZ]

One of the big advantages of a permanent layout

That depends how much stock you have.

[kevinlms]

The original article was called Rationalise Your Stock Building by David Jenkinson and was in Railway Modeller in the early 1970s. About 1974 or '75.

 

It dealt with what locomotives and stock you needed to run a LMS ex Midland Railway mainline in the 1930s and was stressing that you should be building those rather than building things which are inappropriate for the line.

 

 

Jason

But IIRC, he did go on to say that here was no problem in having out of character locos and stock, for the simple reason that you liked them. He called them 'funny trains' and so had a Duchess and matching stock. He also related that the late Gavin Wilson had a superb model of the LNWR Royal Train, for the same reason.

[Ravenser]

That depends how much stock you have.

 

Blacklade is a fairly small layout, but getting enough stock out of the study , out of boxes , onto the track, on the rails , and then removing said stock , packing it up and returning it to the study takes at least an hour out of any running session.

 

And that's an 8'6" terminus/FY plank holding 7-8 trains

[The Johnster]

That depends how much stock you have.

 

My layout is permanent and I would forego having one if it wasn't; I have accepted a much smaller setup than would have been possible otherwise in consequence.  I also greatly appreciate it's being set up in the warm and ventilated living area of my home as well, as I am a lazy s*d (I call it energy conservation).  My ideal, where all the stock lives on the layout on the track at all times, has not been achieved, an indication that I have too much stock, but the locos and passenger/NPCCS stuff can stay out, along with the mineral trains and about 80% of the general merchandise.  I can, and often do, perform the next shunting move while the adverts are on.  Dust does not seem to be the problem I thought it'd be, and frequent operation seems to keep things cleaner than periods of inactivity.

 

As is well known, the correct level of stock, whatever ratios you use, is too many +1, by definition unachieveable,

Edited August 12, 2018 by The Johnster

[Chimer]

It depends why you're in this - I'm in it to remember (through rose-tinted glasses) the locos of my trainspotting 1960s in Lancashire.  I wasn't in the least bit interested in coaches or wagons then.  So I firstly want one of each class of loco that I liked, then probably one of each of the ones I didn't like so much.  I'm unlikely to get that second Black 5, Big 8 or WD that the ratios would obviously demand until after that - unless perhaps I come across one in a junk shop.  Coaches are things for locos to haul and wagons the same, but they also provide shunting puzzles, which I quite like.  Thanks to RMWeb I think I now know just about enough to avoid doing anything too blatantly silly, but no-one's going to know anyway.  And given the daft prices coaches go for these days, one rake of maroon Mk1s, one of blood and custards and one suburban non-corridor ensemble will be my limit - swapped around a bit and lengthened or shortened for variety now and then.  But I'll be happy ….. 

[Compound2632]

The statistic that I don't think has yet been mentioned is that we should have on average a mile of track for every locomotive.

 

The Model Railway News article alluded to previously is The Locomotives of Rishworth by Martin Waters, in three parts in the February, March, and May 1971 issues. He emphasises that his choice of engines is based on research into the traffic that would be typical of his fictional location and period (30s ex-L&Y LMS in, I think, the West Riding). Part 1 describes his Class 30 0-8-0; Part 2 his two Class 27 0-6-0s; Part 3 his Class 25 0-6-0 and Class 23 0-6-0ST. It's noteworth that although he was modelling the 1930s, the newest of these engines dated from 1903 - though he does say he has a Crab, Black 5 and two 8Fs under construction. His engines were all RTR, in the sense that he had them built by Eames of Reading. 

[sharris]

The statistic that I don't think has yet been mentioned is that we should have on average a mile of track for every locomotive.. 

 

However a through station may have many locomotives passing through that one mile of track. Looking through the historical photographs for the line I'm modelling, which doesn't have an overly busy timetable, I was shocked to discover how many different locos I'd actually need (few of which are available rtr - in my case ready-to-rechassis as I'm working in EM) if I wanted a comprehensive representation of the traffic for the time period I'm interested in - ok, so that period is spread out over about 10 years so that I have an excuse to fit in 3 rather unique pieces of stock and the pre-grouping 6-wheelers that SWMBO likes. 

[The Johnster]

Cataloguing is perhaps not that important regarding this discussion*, but for insurance purposes I strongly recommend it. 

 

* Although I do do it to help with my train make ups and to spot gaps that can be filled by a rtr purchase, kit build or scratch build.

 

Very good point, Andy, well made.

[The Johnster]

The statistic that I don't think has yet been mentioned is that we should have on average a mile of track for every locomotive.

 

The Model Railway News article alluded to previously is The Locomotives of Rishworth by Martin Waters, in three parts in the February, March, and May 1971 issues. He emphasises that his choice of engines is based on research into the traffic that would be typical of his fictional location and period (30s ex-L&Y LMS in, I think, the West Riding). Part 1 describes his Class 30 0-8-0; Part 2 his two Class 27 0-6-0s; Part 3 his Class 25 0-6-0 and Class 23 0-6-0ST. It's noteworth that although he was modelling the 1930s, the newest of these engines dated from 1903 - though he does say he has a Crab, Black 5 and two 8Fs under construction. His engines were all RTR, in the sense that he had them built by Eames of Reading. 

 

The Taff Vale's ratio was more like a yard of track for every locomotive.  This isn't as much of an exaggeration as it first appears, especially in terms of route miles!

[The Johnster]

I have something not too far off the 'right' number of locos for my railway in terms of what the local shed needed allocated to work the service, but have chosen the early 50s period specifically to consciously be able to include the greatest possible diversity of the liveries that appeared at that time, which on my layout range from GWR austerity to 1958 ferret and dartboard.  Number plates can be red or black backed, and I have arbitrarily included a loco transferred to Tondu from Tyseley, 4166, so as to be able to use the BR lined black with sans serif 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' livery, under the authority of Rule 1: this loco was supplied new to Tyseley in late 1948 in this livery.  I have 2 5101s, Tondu's 4145 as well, which is too many, but only one working Airfix chassis for them, so they cannot both appear at the same time anyway.  

 

I have in effect dumped the loco and stock demands of a whole extra valley branch line on to the shoulders of the Tondu shed foreman, so can justify an approximate 10% increase in the shed's allocation of around 50 locos.  If no more than one or two at the most foreigners appear on the layout, I am happy with the ratio.  So far a I can ascertain, workings further into the valleys than Tondu were performed entirely by Tondu's engines, and the neighbouring sheds did not sign route knowledge up there.  I might be tempted to a Llantrisant 14xx, 1421, though and make a Rule 1 excuse for it; it would enable me to scratch build a matchboard auto trailer to with it which sounds like a fun future project when I have finished the proper modelling...  And I have a nearly finished kit TVR 'A' which could show up from Dyffryn Yard; temptations, temtpations!   I regard the rebuilt TVR 'A' as mankind's ultimate achievement.

 

Future plans are to replace two of the locos with better modern versions when they are available; Dapol 5101 and Bachmann 94xx; numberplates from the existing models will be transferred to the new ones.  Actual additions to stock, aside from flights of fancy involving 1421 and Taff 'A', which would take my lovely current 'correct' ratios over the top, will appear in due course, 4557 and possibly another 56xx.  

Edited August 14, 2018 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

I have something not too far off the 'right' number of locos for my railway in terms of what the local shed needed allocated to work the service, but have chosen the early 50s period specifically to consciously be able to include the greatest possible diversity of the liveries that appeared at that time, which on my layout range from GWR austerity to 1958 ferret and dartboard.  Number plates can be red or black backed, and I have arbitrarily included a loco transferred to Tondu from Tyseley, 4166, so as to be able to use the BR lined black with sans serif 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' livery, under the authority of Rule 1: this loco was supplied new to Tyseley in late 1948 in this livery.  I have 2 5101s, Tondu's 4145 as well, which is too many, but only one working Airfix chassis for them, so they cannot both appear at the same time anyway.  

 

I have in effect dumped the loco and stock demands of a whole extra valley branch line on to the shoulders of the Tondu shed foreman, so can justify an approximate 10% increase in the shed's allocation of around 50 locos.  If no more than one or two at the most foreigners appear on the layout, I am happy with the ratio.  So far a I can ascertain, workings further into the valleys than Tondu were performed entirely by Tondu's engines, and the neighbouring sheds did not sign route knowledge up there.  I might be tempted to a Llantrisant 14xx, 1421, though and make a Rule 1 excuse for it; it would enable me to scratch build a matchboard auto trailer to with it which sounds like a fun future project when I have finished the proper modelling...  And I have a nearly finished kit TVR 'A' which could show up from Dyffryn Yard; temptations, temtpations!   I regard the rebuilt TVR 'A' as mankind's ultimate achievement.

 

Future plans are to replace two of the locos with better modern versions when they are available; Dapol 5101 and Bachmann 94xx; numberplates from the existing models will be transferred to the new ones.  Actual additions to stock, aside from flights of fancy involving 1421 and Taff 'A', which would take my lovely current 'correct' ratios over the top, will appear in due course, 4557 and possibly another 56xx.  

Your TVR  A  might have been borrowed from Barry shed....

[57xx]

It's one thing being able to create a statistic. It's something completely different being able to understand it and apply it correctly.

 

Unless you are modelling the whole of the UK rail network, then this statistic is completely useless.

[Ian J.]

I will hopefully be able to work out my ratios of locos/coaches/wagons soon, if the move to rent a place that's currently awaiting references works out. I wouldn't publish full details here, just basic ratios, but it won't be prototypical...

[Compound2632]

this statistic is completely useless.

 

It was quoted somewhat tongue-in-cheek. 

 

For my cakebox entry, a portion of Litchurch Lane works c. 1896, populated by nothing but D299 wagons under construction...