Sorry to bother 3D printer time

[PaulaDoesTrains]

@Carlislecitadel2 Ah you're talking about layer height. The Ender 3 Pro, in common with most budget FDM printers, has a minimum layer height of 0.04mm. To get best detail though you do really need to use a smaller diameter nozzle as well. If I were to print something like a fruit van vent I'd  angle it in the slicer so that the flat part was horizontal then use a slicer setting called Ironing to make sure that the surface came out smooth. Obviously it would require supports. I also habitually print small items on a raft. The most delicate things I've printed so far are the levers for my sigan box and speed restriction signs. The levers were done on my Ender 3 Pro and came out fine. The signs were done on my Kingroon KP3S with a 0.3mm nozzle and came out fine apart from the direction arrows which look a bit blunt. The upcoming Cura 5 has some features which may help improve the detail there so once that's available I'll reprint the signs.

[bradfordbuffer]

7 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Gday mate the resin is curable with sunlight so anything that has resin on it or in it can be just put into the sun for a couple of hours, it'll harden and can be disposed of like the myriad other plastic bits and bobs -  bottle tops,  blister packs and so on that come into our lives every day. Similarly IPA contaminated with resin can be poured into something and similarly left in the sun. IPA will evaporate and resulting sludge layer will either set or be a minor amount that can be wiped out and put into the rubbish or whatever you do with wipers similarly contaminated with cooking grease, oily car rags and so on.

 

For detail work an FDM will just never cut it compared to resin, but make sure you use the toughened resin or mix standard with flex because the standard resins are rather brittle and a wagon made with it if dropped onto a hard surface will shatter. 

Check out youtube for a ipa/ alcohol distiller....looks volatile....probably is so I bought one works a treat...do it in garden no more multiple bottle swaps and extended time in sunlight.  I had a first wash tank to dunk prints in prior to wash station that ipa was thick with resin.

distilled ipa is crystal clear but has a tinge smell different to fresh ipa out of bottle....left over resin or distilling prosses don't know?

It works....tick....is it dangerous...tick

The entire 3d printing process is smelly and full of chemicals so another dangerous process is just a bonus....

 

Distiller bought of eBay for 80 quid....20quid a 5lt if ipa so will eventually pay for it self,  maybe a group purchase split the cost! I did! I bought it my brother brings his dirty ipa to me.... uses my electricity! And colects next day as he says he will watch mushroom clouds from explosion from the safety of his house.! (Live a little)

 

Disclaimer do your homework make your own decision 

[njee20]

I think your assessment that FDM is less environmentally damaging is probably fair, but the results simply won’t be as good. As you identify one printer from an unknown brand claiming to offer 0.02mm resolution is pretty suspicious. You’ll never get good rivet detail from FDM, nothing approaching resin at least. 
 

I personally clean in acetone now, I find it works far better than IPA. I’ve had the same tubs for months (a dirty one and a cleaner one), you lose a bit on each model, so I just top up and never actually do a full ‘disposal’. I keep all the paper towels/bits of print I don’t want in a box, when it’s full I leave it in the sun for a bit. Job done.

[MJI]

My washing juice got exposed to sunlight and the washed off resin settled out

[bradfordbuffer]

23 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Check out youtube for a ipa/ alcohol distiller....looks volatile....probably is so I bought one works a treat...do it in garden no more multiple bottle swaps and extended time in sunlight.  I had a first wash tank to dunk prints in prior to wash station that ipa was thick with resin.

distilled ipa is crystal clear but has a tinge smell different to fresh ipa out of bottle....left over resin or distilling prosses don't know?

It works....tick....is it dangerous...tick

The entire 3d printing process is smelly and full of chemicals so another dangerous process is just a bonus....

 

Distiller bought of eBay for 80 quid....20quid a 5lt if ipa so will eventually pay for it self,  maybe a group purchase split the cost! I did! I bought it my brother brings his dirty ipa to me.... uses my electricity! And colects next day as he says he will watch mushroom clouds from explosion from the safety of his house.! (Live a little)

 

Disclaimer do your homework make your own decision 

Forgot to add about distiller get one with temperature gauge....to help you keep it under combustion/ignition point

[Carlislecitadel2]

Thanks for all the tips. If resin printing is the only viable solution for rivet detail then a resin machine it will have to be. It’s good to know that the excess can be left in the sun to dry out rather than being washed away. I will look into the IPA and acetone as well. If I go for the Mars 3 is it worth getting the washing and curing stations?

[monkeysarefun]

3 minutes ago, Carlislecitadel2 said:

Thanks for all the tips. If resin printing is the only viable solution for rivet detail then a resin machine it will have to be. It’s good to know that the excess can be left in the sun to dry out rather than being washed away. I will look into the IPA and acetone as well. If I go for the Mars 3 is it worth getting the washing and curing stations?

[Carlislecitadel2]

I might hold off for a couple of months while I get to grips with Fusion 360, just in case an affordable 0.02 FDM machine comes out.  However from the responses on here it seems unlikely even that will deliver the detail I would be hoping to achieve on riveted wagons, though it would be fine for other items like crates, small sheds, etc.  It sounds like the resin printer will need to reside in the garage as well so I will need to clear a space for it out there. The technology is improving all the time but the key seems to be to get good at CAD drawing first. I also do a lot of 1/35 military modelling so the printer will be useful in that field as well. A lot of the small military modelling companies have moved to 3D printing for detailing/ correction / conversion and even complete kits, like FCM https://www.fcmodeltrend.com/172-scale-lp-1-51-familia-9/ . Hopefully  more of the railway community will do the same. I have a sizeable order in for some on Bill Bedford’s nice designs and have some of the NIU detailing parts as well. But there will always be items no company is likely to produce. If I find I need more than one of these items then 3D printing seems as sensible as making a master and resin cast but with advantage that parts can be resized or modified into other prototypes more easily than making a new master and mould. And the .stl files can be shared.Thanks again for all the responses. They have been very helpful.

[monkeysarefun]

Another advantage of resin printing  is that if you have multiple items to print at once, either copies of the same thing or all different,  because of  the way a resin printer works, ie does a layer at a time of the whole printer bed, they will all be printed simultaneously. Compared to an FDM with a nozzle which can only work  on one item at a time. 

 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

8 hours ago, Carlislecitadel2 said:

I might hold off for a couple of months while I get to grips with Fusion 360, just in case an affordable 0.02 FDM machine comes out.  However from the responses on here it seems unlikely even that will deliver the detail I would be hoping to achieve on riveted wagons, though it would be fine for other items like crates, small sheds, etc.  It sounds like the resin printer will need to reside in the garage as well so I will need to clear a space for it out there. The technology is improving all the time but the key seems to be to get good at CAD drawing first. I also do a lot of 1/35 military modelling so the printer will be useful in that field as well. A lot of the small military modelling companies have moved to 3D printing for detailing/ correction / conversion and even complete kits, like FCM https://www.fcmodeltrend.com/172-scale-lp-1-51-familia-9/ . Hopefully  more of the railway community will do the same. I have a sizeable order in for some on Bill Bedford’s nice designs and have some of the NIU detailing parts as well. But there will always be items no company is likely to produce. If I find I need more than one of these items then 3D printing seems as sensible as making a master and resin cast but with advantage that parts can be resized or modified into other prototypes more easily than making a new master and mould. And the .stl files can be shared.Thanks again for all the responses. They have been very helpful.

Yep garage is the place to go for printing can be a messy job! Only had a small set  up area when I 1st set up and during curing had to store wash tank with 8lts of ipa in on the floor....quest what happend next? Yep clues me kicked it over, luckily no floor covering down on garage floor isolated up as much as I could but stank for weeks! Don't underestimate area needed to set up, once printer set up and level DONT MOVE IT.. I have mono x and wash large probably need at least 5 to 6 liniar feet of work space to use and prep prints.

Also garage gives other problems temperature needs constant 21 plus as if temp drops resins become thick prints fail, printer hoods work well I used carbord box printer came in with some slots at bottom for wires and ventilation and machine ventilation for fans, some foke have used heaters from lizard tanks to keep printer warm again see YouTube and make your own mind up,  store resins in bottles In house to keep warm .

Direct sunlight is a big no no so not near up and over door resin deposits on tools and equipment can harden in a instant....also resin in tank if lid off can get a film on it of cured resin....don't know how I know that tip?

Mistakes will be made mess will need cleaning up and you will get up at 3am to see how print is going?

Tip if long hrs print ....set it off at about 7pm then by 10pm if its not on build plate you can stop it rather than let it run for hrs and hrs

Have fun

[MJI]

IPA if exposed to light will precipitate cured resin so filtering that way can help.

[Carlislecitadel2]

I bit the bullet and ordered an Ender 3 S1 as it can print to 0.05mm.  The included Creality software would not install but I was able to download the latest firmware build from their website and it installed ok. The fall back position was the Cura slicer which I have also downloaded and might switch to as Creality's own is just a cutdown version of Cura.

I got it up and running yesterday and have had a good few failed printed but also some successes. I'm doing simple things like crates to begin with. I tried an LNER cast iron bffer stop but while the main parts printed OK the thiner iron supports at back did not. I need to figure out why. A rescaled 10mm 16t mineral wagon end door also failed to produce the horizontal webs. I did download some 2mm containers from Cults 3d and was able to scale them up. The H type container as used by the LMS has printed realy well and the plank lines are clearly visible. I've lso printed a couple of other items like parts for a drone. Defineitely a bt of a learning curve but so far I'm impressed with the macine's capabilities, if not my own. Sithlord of this parish has kindly sent me a 2mm fie for an LNWR D84 to try and scale up. I have several 4mm versions on order from Bill Bedford along with several other of Bills pregrouping stock, but I fancy trying to print some of my own. I really must extract a digit now and start getting to grips with Fusion 360. I intend to design some end vents for LMS vans to convert some Cambrian kits to the twin end vent type. Then next up will be the end ventilators found on LMS banana vans to aid with converting the Ratio kits. The old LMS lineside series of drawings from the 60s for things like ballast bins will also make for good introductory designs. Let the fun begin.

[billbedford]

On 09/05/2022 at 11:38, MJI said:

IPA if exposed to light will precipitate cured resin so filtering that way can help.

 

If dirty IPA is left to settle the filler/pigments in the resin will precipitate out. The active parts of the resin will still be held in solution. If the IPA is saturated with resin putting it out in the sun will result in a thick gel. Putting some of this gel into a metal tray and burning off the IPA* will result in a slab of cured resin that will look like a piece of burnt toast. 

 

*Outdoors away from anything flammable, please. 

[Quarryscapes]

Leave used IPA to settle for a week or so, THEN put it in the sun. That way you don't get a bottle full of useless white slime. I leave mine settling for ages on a windowsill, then pour it out through a coffee filter to trap any bits. The resin is 99.9% now stuck to the bottom of the bottle and what comes out is perfectly usable, if stained a little yellow, IPA. I've been recycling mine this way for the past year, occasionally topping up with new to replace that lost to evaporation, cleanup and spillages. 

[bradfordbuffer]

6 hours ago, Quarryscapes said:

Leave used IPA to settle for a week or so, THEN put it in the sun. That way you don't get a bottle full of useless white slime. I leave mine settling for ages on a windowsill, then pour it out through a coffee filter to trap any bits. The resin is 99.9% now stuck to the bottom of the bottle and what comes out is perfectly usable, if stained a little yellow, IPA. I've been recycling mine this way for the past year, occasionally topping up with new to replace that lost to evaporation, cleanup and spillages. 

Check out youtube for ipa distilling via a distilling...I've bought one not set myself on fire or blown house and garden to bits ....(but do it outside)....Disclaimer....do your research make your own mind up!

 

Supper clean ipa but it smells slightly different than fresh ipa out of the bottle so some form of leftover from resin!

[Carlislecitadel2]

I said in last  nights post I’d printed some legs for a drone. They had curved surfaces in places, tighter radius than most 4mm loco boilers. I had a look at them today and struggle to see or feel the stepping from the different layers. It is there but it’s difficult to see and could maybe be sanded a bit to get rid of what there is. They were printed at 0.05 mm. I might try an industrial loco at some point to test that out but I was quite impressed by it. I was using Techbears white PLA which was recommended on a 3D print website with an article on best filaments.

[Carlislecitadel2]

A couple of quick questions for those who print in PLA. I have run off a few samples of the LMS banana vents and placed them on the ends of a Ratio van. They are slightly too big and the proportions are not right so they will be redrawn. However what is the best glue to join PLA to the plastic used in injection moulded kits?

I have been printing in Techbears white filament which gives a pretty smooth finish. However trying to file some of the layer lines on curved roofs has been tougher than I expected. Is there a softer filament or brand of PLA which is easier to file or cut with a chisel blade?

I have also ordered a couple of 0.2mm nozzles as recommended by PaulaDoesTrains above. Unfortunately it will be another couple of weeks before I get a chance to print anything and see how big a this difference it makes. If some of the Gauge 1 modellers use 0.2 nozzles for their prints then it’s bound bring out little more detail in 4mm.

Thanks in advance,

Stephen

[PaulaDoesTrains]

For glueing PLA I've had good success with superglue. I use the slower cure type which often seems to be marketed as 60 seconds glue or something similar. This allows me time to wiggle the parts into the correct position before the glue sets..

[Carlislecitadel2]

Cheers. I will look up some of the slow setting superglues. I have a stack of white metal kits to built too so I will get a couple of bottles in at least.

[MikeTrice]

For PLA Deluxe Plastic Magic works well.

[Penrhos1920]

Which FDM plastic is easiest to sand please?  I read someone comment that PLA was difficult to sand smooth and I know from experience that Shapeways WSF, or whatever they call it now, is nigh on impossible to sand.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Penrhos1920

[Carlislecitadel2]

Has anybody tried a 0.2mm nozzle in their filament printer, and did you see an improvement in detail that justifies the extra print time?  I have read it will produce better detail in the X and Y planes and test shots shown of lettering printed on a credit card appeared to support that. However looking at videos on how to change nozzles it looks like it’s awkward, but doable for a beginner. I have the nozzles but have not fitted them yet and it will another couple of weeks before I do. I know the Gauge 1 modellers use a 0.2mm for finer detail such as buffers.

[PaulaDoesTrains]

I've not yet tried a 0.2mm nozzle but I have a 0.3mm nozzle in one of my printers and get improved detail  over the 0.4mm nozzle. There's also good evidence that the latest versions of Cura and Prusa Slicer give improved detail without swapping to a smaller nozzle.

[simonmcp]

I get much better detail if I slow down the print speed. I can print 4mm scale Hupac light clusters which are perfectly formed. I slowed down to 10mm sec for that. I only have a cheap Aldi printer so it's not the quality of the printer.

[Carlislecitadel2]

TIt’s been a while since my last post on here. I have been making some headway with printing. I have switched to using the Cura slicer and have been getting much better detail. Slowing the printing has helped too. My acid test had been the end door of a 16t mineral wagon. I am pleased to say that my Ender S1 is now coping flawlessly with Jonny Duffett’s 16t design and the webs of his pig iron wagons.

I do need to find a a way to modify supports to get the chassis out when printing the right way up. The quick fix is to print the wagon upside down but this has the drawback of ruining the floor, especially for planked wagons. I have downloaded the latest Prusa Slicer which is supposed to allow for better use of tree supports. I will let you know how that goes once I figure out the interface.

However my biggest problem is still with prints curling up at the corners on many occasions. I print everything on rafts and the rafts stick to the bed almost like glue but the corners still curl up a lot of the time leaving banana shaped bases. I recently printed Sascha Freudenberg’s prototype of an LNER D18 ventilated meat container. Both prints curled slightly at the ends. I am printing inside a commercially bought enclosure, albeit a frame supporting a large plastic cube with zipped opening door. It has definitely helped. The enclosure sits at ground level between two bits of furniture so no draft should be getting to the print bed. It is certainly warm inside it during printing. Has anybody any ideas of the cause and a possible fix? 

Thanks in advance.