Carlisle, Garsdale and Hest Bank in EM gauge

[Michael Edge]

It's now thirteen years since this vast project was started, much has appeared on here in my workshop thread and posts by Steve Hewitt and "Gravytrain" but it may be a good time to start the layout's own thread.

I wasn't involved in the initial design of this, when I first arrived there nearly all the baseboards had been built (by the late Alastair Rolfe) and I had this plan, based on the Templot track plan. All of it is in a purpose built building measuring 30m x 6m - to give an ida of its size I usually point out that you could run a BR Mk3 coach in there and still walk all round it...

This is the original plan (it has changed a fair bit since then!) Carlisle Citadel station in the centre, the track layout from Caldew Bridge in the north to St Nicholas Bridge at the south end is exactly to scale. The goods avoiding lines are to scale through Bog Junction (although the junction to the M&C couldn't be fitted in - the building should have been a bit wider...) but are compressed a bit and moved closer to the station through Rome Street and Dentonholme junctions. The whole of the other side was given over to storage sidings with a return loop at each end, the Maryport & Carlisle is represented by another return loop and there is a through running goods line all round the outside. The first change was to eliminate half the storage and build Garsdale in its place, also quickly added was a representation of part of Upperby shed and yard. The diagram above was really done to split up the pointwork (all built by Tony Wilkins with ply and rivet construction) and it's not easy to follow - although the very large space at the LH end is apparent, this is now where Hest Bank is being fitted in as described in my workshop thread this week. Much easier to follow is this diagrammatic representation, it's the other way round - otherwise all the lettering would be upside down.

This still isn't very clear so here is the original pdf.

Carlisle track plan and signal layout copy.pdf

This diagram shows where we were up to before deciding to put Hest Bank in the space in the middle - only one of the return loops was installed, changing to add Garsdale left no room for the one at this end, although we can still turn up trains round on the M&C loops if necessary. All this is finished and working now although there are still some buildings missing and scenery to complete, about half of it is now ballasted and all the signals are working.

That's all for now, much more to follow.

 

[ClikC]

Incredible looking dream layout type stuff, in finescale to boot!

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Rowsley17D]

I am not envious of the space, I am not envious of the ..., I am not..... Okay, I'm as green as grass.

[Michael Edge]

However, as I hinted at earlier, there's never as much room as you want - 1m wider on the building and we would have had the whole of Bog Junction and the goods lines in the right place - a bit more and we could have included Canal shed.......

[Rowsley17D]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

However, as I hinted at earlier, there's never as much room as you want - 1m wider on the building and we would have had the whole of Bog Junction and the goods lines in the right place - a bit more and we could have included Canal shed.......

 

It ever was thus.

[Barry O]

One day... I will get to see this in the flesh as they say.. better take my weathering kit with me though...

 

Baz

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

We all would like a few more more inches, but meters is getting greedy!

 

Mike.

[Vecchio]

On 25/05/2023 at 13:24, Michael Edge said:

All of it is in a purpose built building measuring 30m x 6m

That's a good size layout building!!!

 

How many people do you need to run that monster? 

[Michael Edge]

There’s rarely more than two of us (and often only one) to run it but there would plenty of scope for a dozen or so drivers plus signalmen. Ideally I’d like to get a team of experienced layout operation there to find out what could be done but I’m not sure we ever will.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

There’s rarely more than two of us (and often only one) to run it but there would plenty of scope for a dozen or so drivers plus signalmen. Ideally I’d like to get a team of experienced layout operation there to find out what could be done but I’m not sure we ever will.

One day...

[Michael Edge]

I guarantee you couldn’t empty this fiddle yard…..

[St Enodoc]

11 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I guarantee you couldn’t empty this fiddle yard…..

That's fighting talk!

[roundhouse]

Looks like that track plan will require a full time track cleaner

Edited May 27, 2023 by roundhouse

[Barry O]

One day.. we need a coach trip organising.. been a while since we had a Leeds MRS on tour away day or two!

 

If you let me know of your next visit dates I will try to get there...

 

Baz

[Michael Edge]

We don’t do all that much track cleaning and it’s all graphited.

[roythebus1]

If you need any pics of Garsdale, my brother lives in one of the railway cottages next to the station. I'm sure he wouldn't mind popping out with his phone. He's a Fulham fan so you can guess the name of his cottage!

[Michael Edge]

The Garsdale section is actually finished and we have hundreds of photos but thanks for the offer. Did he name the cottage or was it already named after the fairly local area?

[LNER4479]

On 26/05/2023 at 23:26, Michael Edge said:

 Ideally I’d like to get a team of experienced layout operation there to find out what could be done but I’m not sure we ever will.

Standing by ...

 

(Thanks for starting a layout thread on this epic creation, Mike)

[lofty.ian]

Hi Mike, how are you for photos of Hest Bank. I gathered a few, it was my initial (unfinished) EM layout. I was gathering 1960s info. I have copies of some official BR photos taken of the ‘new’ signal box which I got thru the OPC venture and various others that I acquired. The track and signalled changed quite a few times in a short space of time.

[Michael Edge]

We’re doing it with the LNW box so period is actually 1958 but anything you’ve got may well be useful.

[lofty.ian]

I’m back home at the weekend so will dig out what I’ve got

[Michael Edge]

Before going back to the beginning this photo shows about half of the large tempting space we are now putting Hest Bank in (taken at a very early stage in 2012)

 

When I first found out about the project I naturally asked for a track plan...

but was somewhat taken aback when I was presented with this. I did subsequently get the Templot drawing but I never saw a plan of the baseboards.

We first arrived there in the middle of our caravan holiday touring in France and spent about three days there, as I said there were only bare baseboards at this point and the first impression was - this is fxxxing big! and why is it 5ft off the floor. Since then every visitor has said much the same (in English or French) and I've got used to explaining that the owner likes to get an eye level view of the trains.

I can only find one photo from about the time of that first visit.

Apologies for the very poor photo but this is one of the first sections of track to be laid at the entry to the LNW Crown Street goods yard. Starting here revealed one problem immediately - we plotted the position of the first turnout here from the Templot drawing relative to the baseboards and it came somewhere to the right in mid-air. Some creative adjustment was obviously going to be needed, most of the pointwork had already been made in fairly large chunks and all these had to be lined up and connected (plain track is C&L), Tortoise point motors (about 450 of them so far) were used, something else I had no direct experience of.

This is a somewhat later photo (Geoff Taylor's cardboard mock up for St Nicholas bridge can be seen in place) to show how Alastair had built the baseboards. It was essential that they were strong enough to be climbed on during construction, they are more than 8ft wide in places, and to this end most of it is built on an L girder plywood subframe, all standing on steel tube legs - 1in square tubes, each fastened in with two 10mm bolts. Much of this subframe has since been cut away, including the part in the foreground here, as it served no purpose in non-scenic sections. This photo also shows the tiled floor, flat, smooth and easily swept clean but it doesn't take prisoners.

Finally now a few photos showing what layout build is like, working on stepladders or climbing on top. Work started in earnest in 2011 with us making three trips a year.

It's warm there in the summer (although the inside temperature doesn't usually get above 26) and in winter there are electric heaters along the walls. The original lighting however was as bad as it looks, a handful of (dimmable!) bulbs scattered along the ceiling, useful daylight only at one end and one floodlight tower which can be seen in one of the above photos. There are big glass doors along one side but they can never be opened since the layout was built in front of them - and because we can't open them we can't open the shutters on the outside....

We have now got some much better lighting, initially fluorescents, now mostly LEDs but there's still not enough and nearly all the work was done before they went in.

Looks even worse in this one (taken at 9.04 in the morning), the floodlight tower can be seen - when Geoff Taylor and I were both working there we used to fight for the use of this at times.

 

 

[25kV]

😲

 

Wow!  I'm having trouble with the scale of this project, in both respects!

Very impressive!

[roythebus1]

7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The Garsdale section is actually finished and we have hundreds of photos but thanks for the offer. Did he name the cottage or was it already named after the fairly local area?

It's called Craven Cottage, he's a Fulham fan. :) He's also the local window cleaner!

 

[Michael Edge]

I gathered that but the Craven district of Yorkshire isn’t very far away from Garsdale so I thought it might have been a coincidence.