How far north did Warships or Westerns ever get?

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

It's fortunate none of your Westerns ever made it into Scotland, because one of our Power Controllers (sadly no longer with us) would have found a way of using it on Queen Street/Aberdeen services!

 

 

Tinsley had a bit of a reputation for that sort of thing, ex works 1676 Vulcan being used on the Sheffield - Nottingham shuttle springs to mind!

 

Mike.

[Will Crompton]

Blimus! Western in Warrington, 1962/3. Picture taken by Eddie Bellass.

 

And - Winwick jn (Warrington) D6338+D63xx St Rollox to Laira delivery run,1962. Taken by Jim Carter).

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Will Crompton

[Rugd1022]

Photo by Rob Fraser ; D834 at Crewe North Stabling Point...

 

[johnofwessex]

Surely they got to the furthest North you can go, North Pole Junction

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, Will Crompton said:

Blimus! Western in Warrington, 1962/3. Picture taken by Eddie Bellass.

 

And - Winwick jn (Warrington) D6338+D63xx St Rollox to Laira delivery run,1962. Taken by Jim Carter).

 

How many weeks did they take to get down Plymuff?

P

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Really interesting photo of the NBL Warship at Crewe. Must be 1968 judging by the 50 in the photo. Presumably one of the small batch that were working out of Bescot at that time on freights.

The Thousand is likely to be one of the Crewe-built examples. Maybe on a test run?

 

[Halvarras]

12 hours ago, Will Crompton said:

 

And - Winwick jn (Warrington) D6338+D63xx St Rollox to Laira delivery run,1962. Taken by Jim Carter).

 

 

D6334-6 were turned out without yellow panels and the second loco's number doesn't appear to end in a '7' so this is probably D6338 + D6339 (??)

 

11 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Photo by Rob Fraser ; D834 at Crewe North Stabling Point...

 

 

Not D834, which went maroon in June 1966, i.e. before the Class 50s had appeared. The 'blob' above the loco's number is almost certainly a data panel, and the only green Warship to have this applied in such a position was D854 'Tiger', which happened to be one of the last green survivors (I had it for haulage Paignton - Exeter on 5th July 1969). Data panels only started appearing en masse from spring 1969 and D854 went blue in December that year, so this photo was taken during that year........plenty of time for the '50' to get into that state!

[The Border Reiver]

6 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

D6334-6 were turned out without yellow panels and the second loco's number doesn't appear to end in a '7' so this is probably D6338 + D6339 (??)

 

 

Not D834, which went maroon in June 1966, i.e. before the Class 50s had appeared. The 'blob' above the loco's number is almost certainly a data panel, and the only green Warship to have this applied in such a position was D854 'Tiger', which happened to be one of the last green survivors (I had it for haulage Paignton - Exeter on 5th July 1969). Data panels only started appearing en masse from spring 1969 and D854 went blue in December that year, so this photo was taken during that year........plenty of time for the '50' to get into that state!

D6337 headed south with D862 around 13 February 1962. I saw them pass through Carlisle

[The Border Reiver]

Spotting in Carlisle since 1954, I visited many locations in the city when I was not at school. While spotting at some of these locations beside signal boxes, I made friends with various signalbox workers and started to be invited into the boxes where I enjoyed myself over the years. The main boxes I spent time in were Canal Junction, Carlisle No. 3 (beside) Caldew Junction and in later years the new yard power box and hump shunt control room. The signalbox men were a great source of information, especially the ones in Carlisle No. 3, which on the WCML had information of special trains and light engine movements.

 

One such piece of information greatly interested me, the dates and times that the NB Warships (class 43) and North British Type 2 diesel-hydraulics (class 22) were passing the signalbox heading for the western region. They usually passed by the box on Tuesdays and Thursdays around 11 am. I knew when every loco passed by from D833 in July 1960. Unfortunately, I was at school and when 11 o'clock arrived I was frustrated that Warships were passing by half a mile from where I was and I couldn't see them!

 

In March 1962 there were only four more Warships left to be built by NB. When D862 Viking was due, I made the decision that I would bunk off school and go and see it. Armed with my Kodak Box Brownie camera I headed to Carlisle caldew junction and waited. Sure enough I spied the Warship D862 coupled to Class 22 D6337 heading towards me on the freight bypass line.

 

Now the Box Brownie camera only had a 1/50 shutter speed and fixed focus. Many of my moving photos I took with the camera were either light fogged or blurred (it was rare to get a photo of a moving train that was not blurred due to camera shake and the low shutter speed). You basically pressed the camera shutter and hoped for the best! Still photos taken on sunny days usually turned out OK.

 

As the locos approached I pressed the camera's shutter hoping for the best. Considering the conditions that day the photo came out not too bad as can be seen above :). I then cycled to Upperby shed where the locos usually stopped for a while. I took another photo of D862 on the shed which turned out to be a complet disaster very blurred and light fogged (you can just make out that it is a Warship) :(

 

I never ever saw any more Warships at Carlisle but did see two class 22s coupled together heading south a few months later. Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera with me at the time.....

 

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Surely they got to the furthest North you can go, North Pole Junction

I've been there (well past it) in the cab of a Swindon 'Warship'.  How's that for name dropping?  

 

Mind you as it was at one end of the Victoria Branch I do think the 'north' part would be a bit geographically confusing.   In reality the junction and its signal box were named after a nearby pub. 'The North Pole'.

[Halvarras]

35 minutes ago, The Border Reiver said:

Spotting in Carlisle since 1954, I visited many locations in the city when I was not at school. While spotting at some of these locations beside signal boxes, I made friends with various signalbox workers and started to be invited into the boxes where I enjoyed myself over the years. The main boxes I spent time in were Canal Junction, Carlisle No. 3 (beside) Caldew Junction and in later years the new yard power box and hump shunt control room. The signalbox men were a great source of information, especially the ones in Carlisle No. 3, which on the WCML had information of special trains and light engine movements.

 

One such piece of information greatly interested me, the dates and times that the NB Warships (class 43) and North British Type 2 diesel-hydraulics (class 22) were passing the signalbox heading for the western region. They usually passed by the box on Tuesdays and Thursdays around 11 am. I knew when every loco passed by from D833 in July 1960. Unfortunately, I was at school and when 11 o'clock arrived I was frustrated that Warships were passing by half a mile from where I was and I couldn't see them!

 

In March 1962 there were only four more Warships left to be built by NB. When D862 Viking was due, I made the decision that I would bunk off school and go and see it. Armed with my Kodak Box Brownie camera I headed to Carlisle caldew junction and waited. Sure enough I spied the Warship D862 coupled to Class 22 D6337 heading towards me on the freight bypass line.

 

Now the Box Brownie camera only had a 1/50 shutter speed and fixed focus. Many of my moving photos I took with the camera were either light fogged or blurred (it was rare to get a photo of a moving train that was not blurred due to camera shake and the low shutter speed). You basically pressed the camera shutter and hoped for the best! Still photos taken on sunny days usually turned out OK.

 

As the locos approached I pressed the camera's shutter hoping for the best. Considering the conditions that day the photo came out not too bad as can be seen above :). I then cycled to Upperby shed where the locos usually stopped for a while. I took another photo of D862 on the shed which turned out to be a complet disaster very blurred and light fogged (you can just make out that it is a Warship) :(

 

I never ever saw any more Warships at Carlisle but did see two class 22s coupled together heading south a few months later. Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera with me at the time.....

 

 

Many thanks for sharing such great memories. Considering the camera, film and conditions as you describe, the fact that the number is legible on D6337, which judging by the tail lamp on D862 is in charge, makes this a total success 😊! This was also the first Type 2 to be released with yellow warning panels (the first Warship, D859, had already passed by then).

 

It also illustrates how NBL had problems dealing with the Warship's unfamiliar 'stressed skin' construction method, the new paint exaggerating the rippling compared to the Type 2 which was built using conventional methods.

 

An interesting point of livery detail between the two is that the Type 2's underframe water tank (not fuel tank, that was higher up in the roof space) was originally painted green to (sort of) match the Warship's green valances. It was usually, if not always, repainted black during first overhaul.

[The Border Reiver]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Many thanks for sharing such great memories. Considering the camera, film and conditions as you describe, the fact that the number is legible on D6337, which judging by the tail lamp on D862 is in charge, makes this a total success 😊! This was also the first Type 2 to be released with yellow warning panels (the first Warship, D859, had already passed by then).

 

It also illustrates how NBL had problems dealing with the Warship's unfamiliar 'stressed skin' construction method, the new paint exaggerating the rippling compared to the Type 2 which was built using conventional methods.

 

An interesting point of livery detail between the two is that the Type 2's underframe water tank (not fuel tank, that was higher up in the roof space) was originally painted green to (sort of) match the Warship's green valances. It was usually, if not always, repainted black during first overhaul.

They are heading south, ie to the left

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, The Border Reiver said:

They are heading south, ie to the left

Oh.....OK - presumably D6337 had a tail lamp too then!

 

On reflection it would have made sense for the twin-engined loco to be powered up for this transfer move of brand new machines, as teething trouble on the single-engined one could have immobilized the ensemble (possibly in an embarrassingly awkward location causing much disruption!)

[nigb55009]

D1041 Western Prince appeared at the Workington Open Day 10th September 1983. It was hauled north behind the train loco of the

morning Walton Old Junction to Workington freight on the 8th. I passed it at Winwick Junction, whilst on 7T95 0700 Bickershaw to

Fiddlers Ferry MGR. I think the freight headcode was 7P60 IIRC.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

... presumably D6337 had a tail lamp too then! ...

Didn't the Diesel Hydraulics have those peculiar Western sideway-on lamp irons ? ..... must've made finding suitable lamps in Scotland interesting !!?!

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Halvarras said:

Oh.....OK - presumably D6337 had a tail lamp too then!

 

On reflection it would have made sense for the twin-engined loco to be powered up for this transfer move of brand new machines, as teething trouble on the single-engined one could have immobilized the ensemble (possibly in an embarrassingly awkward location causing much disruption!)

Going by what the late Joe Field - a past WR Chief traction Inspector - had to say about NBL using the twin engined loco would have been very sensible.  According to Joe NBL were a shambolic concern. when it came to having locos ready for collection - and he was a regular going up to collect them.  Very often work on the booked loco was not finished and testing was incomplete or faults were found when the loco was being prepped for the delivery run.  Sometimes he'd be stuck in Glasgow for several days because the loco he was supposed to collect either wasn't complete or had faults that couldn't be quickly rectified.

 

He contrasted NBL's approach to things with Beyer Peacock's because when he arrived there the loco to be collected wouldn't just be fully prepped but it was usually being tested in multiple with the next one to show to him that the m.u. working was fully operational before he took delivery.

 

Another, non-railway, engineer I met had worked for NBL for a short while when they were just getting into diesel construction for BR.  He said that what he saw horrified him with no proper testing of materials being used and very poor workshop practice for constructing something as complex as a large diesel loco.  Apparently workforce morale was pretty low as they could see the writing on the wall for the future of the company which was deeply rooted in building steam and was finding it hard to adapt to building diesels.

[Phil Bullock]

Factual errors corrected… 862 not 861 and was o n 30th July not August. 
 

Last Warship at Crewe? 862 on Newton Abbot to Newton le Willows motorail July 1971 … unless anyone knows different! 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Phil Bullock
Factual corrections

[Halvarras]

48 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Last Warship at Crewe? 861 on Newton Abbot to Newton le Willows motorail August 1971 … unless anyone knows different! 

 

That would have been during the 7 months it ran in blue livery then (8/3/71 - 3/10/71) - 3 weeks less than D600 managed!

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said:

Last Warship at Crewe? 861 on Newton Abbot to Newton le Willows motorail August 1971 … unless anyone knows different! 

 

Did it come home light engine Phil...?

 

The very last Warship working of all was 821 on a Bristol - Plymouth additional parcels job in December '72, on arrival at Plymouth it ran light to Laira, was switched off with no ceremony and that was that. (It ran light to Didcot in May '73 after withdrawal though, in preservation).

Edited August 20, 2023 by Rugd1022

[Phil Bullock]

25 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

Did it come home light engine Phil...?

 

The very last Warship working of all was 821 on a Bristol - Plymouth additional parcels job in December '72, on arrival at Plymouth it ran light to Laira, was switched off with no ceremony and that was that. (It ran light to Didcot in May '73 after withdrawal though, in preservation).

 
Should have looked at notes first !!! Sorry folks memory getting worse

 

Notes are from Steve Harrod with input from Mark Alden

 

‘Twas 862 not 861…. 30th July, up to Crewe from Newton Abbot on 1M36 motorail, back from Crewe on 20.27 1V47 Manchester- Penzance as far as Plymouth

 

Phil

[KeithMacdonald]

Drifting the thread a bit, I was also idly wondering how far north GWR steam ever got. By which I'm supposing further north than Birkenhead. Coincidently, while looking at the route of an imaginary line to Ullapool, I stumbled on this.

 

 

Ben Brooksbank / Ex-GWR Pannier tank engine in Northern Scotland, at Dingwall /  CC BY-SA 2.0
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dingwall_geograph-2565738-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

Nothing at all unusual about a picture of a GWR Pannier tank engineis there? But this one (1649) is at Dingwall in Scotland, on the Far North Line.

 

Quote

In the goods yard south of Dingwall station, WR/GWR '1600' class 0-6-0T No. 1649 (built 5/51, withdrawn 12/62) is ending its short life at Dingwall, having been brought up to work the Dornoch branch after all the main lines had turned over to Diesel operation.

 

The Dornoch branch is even further north!

 

 

Is that a record?

[Matt37268]

5 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Drifting the thread a bit, I was also idly wondering how far north GWR steam ever got. By which I'm supposing further north than Birkenhead. Coincidently, while looking at the route of an imaginary line to Ullapool, I stumbled on this.

 

 

Ben Brooksbank / Ex-GWR Pannier tank engine in Northern Scotland, at Dingwall /  CC BY-SA 2.0
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dingwall_geograph-2565738-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

Nothing at all unusual about a picture of a GWR Pannier tank engineis there? But this one (1649) is at Dingwall in Scotland, on the Far North Line.

 

 

The Dornoch branch is even further north!

 

 

Is that a record?

They were replacements for the 0-4-4 tanks, on the Dornoch branch? think they were shedded at Helmsdale? 🧐