Bath Queen Square

[queensquare]

Some train stuff, albeit nothing to do with Bath!

Popped over to the clubrooms at Cranmore to drop off some second hand mags for the sales stand but also to get a steam fix. I was expecting the little Ivatt mogul but was very pleasantry surprised to find 4555 on three coaches. I know these belong to the other railway but they are a favourite of mine, particularly the early ones with the straight tank.

 

Jerry

 

[queensquare]

The veg garden continues to take most of my spare time at the moment but I have managed to put together a test etch for the Johnson style 3500 tender that Nigel Hunt has produced.

This tender will be extremely useful for anyone wanting to model a Midland built 4F. The Midland 4Fs had a variety of tenders attached but  by far the most comon, (just under half of the 197 examples including those built for the S&D) were this type  with extended side sheets, comode handles, no flat beading and a distinctive rivet pattern. The test I have built was to convert the 3250 tender Nigel designed for his 483 kit but he has now decided to release it as a complete etch which is great news. The other advantage will be that, hopefully, this will release a few Raithby Fowler tender etches from those with complete 4F kits.

 

As expected all went together without any problems and I look forward to having a go at the complete etch. The etch contains a full set of axle box/springs which can be made up but, being lazy, I have used modified LMS NBrass axle boxes and springs - not perfect but Im happy with them - I used them on the M. 

The picture shows the almost finished tender posed with a Farish body partly to see if the slight difference in scale jarred the eye (it doesnt in my oppinion) but also because I dont have an unbuilt Raithby 4F to go with it at the moment. The tender chassis design is the normal Raithby/Hunt style which allows some of the tender weight to bare on the back of the loco. Ive not yet worked out how  best to do this for the Farish loco but it will be a great benefit as 

it is a bit whimpy as it comes. 

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by queensquare

[John Brenchley]

Looking great Jerry

 

Not being a Midland modeller myself, you lost me with your reference to "comode handles" - could you explain please.

 

Thanks

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

 

[65179]

1 hour ago, John Brenchley said:

Looking great Jerry

 

Not being a Midland modeller myself, you lost me with your reference to "comode handles" - could you explain please.

 

Thanks

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

 

 

John, the commode handles, or commode handrails, are the vertical handrails which stick out from the side sheets. On this tender they are at the front only, whereas a Fowler tender (for example) would have them front and rear. In this case the term is used to distinguish them from the handrails on the 3250 gallon tenders behind Jerry's 483s where the front vertical handrails are positioned either side of the footplate broadly in front of the shorter side sheets.

 

Nice work Jerry. It looks like another lovely design from Nigel. The rivets have come out beautifully on that etch - clearly visible, but not too prominent. You'd be keeping N Brass in business with all those twin tank fillers if you build a few of these!

 

Simon

[Compound2632]

40 minutes ago, 65179 said:

On this tender they are at the front only, whereas a Fowler tender (for example) would have them front and rear.

 

The reason being, that the Fowler (and Deeley) tenders had rear footsteps, so something was needed to hang onto when climbing them. The rear footsteps were, I suspect, a consequence of the high forward tender bulkhead. On Johnson tenders, access to the rear tender top to get at the tank filler was by climbing over the coal. Those Johnson-style tenders with high bulkheads fitted to many Midland 4Fs must have been a real pain to water.

[Nig H]

50 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

John, the commode handles, or commode handrails, are the vertical handrails which stick out from the side sheets. On this tender they are at the front only, whereas a Fowler tender (for example) would have them front and rear. In this case the term is used to distinguish them from the handrails on the 3250 gallon tenders behind Jerry's 483s where the front vertical handrails are positioned either side of the footplate broadly in front of the shorter side sheets.

 

Nice work Jerry. It looks like another lovely design from Nigel. The rivets have come out beautifully on that etch - clearly visible, but not too prominent. You'd be keeping N Brass in business with all those twin tank fillers if you build a few of these!

 

Simon

Hello Simon,

 

Thanks for your comments. Concerning the rivets, I placed two sets of sides etc next to each other on the test sheet. The rivets on the set I didn't send to Jerry were much less prominent, though still visible. Whether they would still show under a layer of paint, I don't know. This is one aspect of etching which is exasperating for us etchers, and makes designing drawings with fine detail quite challenging. 

 

Thanks to Jerry for using the sides and I hope he can use the one he has built.

 

Nigel Hunt

[queensquare]

2 hours ago, John Brenchley said:

Looking great Jerry

 

Not being a Midland modeller myself, you lost me with your reference to "comode handles" - could you explain please.

 

Thanks

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

 

 

 

Thanks John. As Simon and Stephen said, the 3250 tenders had twin handrail stantions with a bracket that also incorporate the brake/water scoop collumn - a bit of a pain to make in 2mm.

The 3500 has vertical "commode" handrails on knobs fixed to the longer side sheets. The cropped pictures should make it clear.

 

Jerry

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by queensquare

[queensquare]

6 minutes ago, Nig H said:

Hello Simon,

 

Thanks for your comments. Concerning the rivets, I placed two sets of sides etc next to each other on the test sheet. The rivets on the set I didn't send to Jerry were much less prominent, though still visible. Whether they would still show under a layer of paint, I don't know. This is one aspect of etching which is exasperating for us etchers, and makes designing drawings with fine detail quite challenging. 

 

Thanks to Jerry for using the sides and I hope he can use the one he has built.

 

Nigel Hunt

 

Thanks Nigel, the tender will certainly be used - as will at least two more when the production etch is available - a MR/SDJR layout set in the 1920s cant really have too many 4Fs!

 

Jerry

[Sithlord75]

14 hours ago, queensquare said:

The veg garden continues to take most of my spare time at the moment but I have managed to put together a test etch for the Johnson style 3500 tender that Nigel Hunt has produced.

This tender will be extremely useful for anyone wanting to model a Midland built 4F. The Midland 4Fs had a variety of tenders attached but  by far the most comon, (just under half of the 197 examples including those built for the S&D) were this type  with extended side sheets, comode handles, no flat beading and a distinctive rivet pattern. The test I have built was to convert the 3250 tender Nigel designed for his 483 kit but he has now decided to release it as a complete etch which is great news. The other advantage will be that, hopefully, this will release a few Raithby Fowler tender etches from those with complete 4F kits.

 

As expected all went together without any problems and I look forward to having a go at the complete etch. The etch contains a full set of axle box/springs which can be made up but, being lazy, I have used modified LMS NBrass axle boxes and springs - not perfect but Im happy with them - I used them on the M. 

The picture shows the almost finished tender posed with a Farish body partly to see if the slight difference in scale jarred the eye (it doesnt in my oppinion) but also because I dont have an unbuilt Raithby 4F to go with it at the moment. The tender chassis design is the normal Raithby/Hunt style which allows some of the tender weight to bare on the back of the loco. Ive not yet worked out how  best to do this for the Farish loco but it will be a great benefit as 

it is a bit whimpy as it comes. 

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wonder if this will be enough to tip @nebnoswal to the Darkside...

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Sithlord75 said:

Wonder if this will be enough to tip @nebnoswal to the Darkside...

 

What? take up modelling of the LNWR? I don't see the connection.

[Sithlord75]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

What? take up modelling of the LNWR? I don't see the connection.

2mm actually - he tends to stick with his N gauge stuff but his SDJR CAD files are all 2mm so he's been tempted.

[queensquare]

Ive contacted a mate who is also a chippy and we have provisionally agreed to do the workshop roof over the weekend of 28/29 May. This will give me the rest of the summer to refurbish the interior and then make some real progress next winter - very excited!

 

If any members have any influence on the weather can I please book a few  dry days please!! 🙏 😇

 

Jerry 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by queensquare

[2mmMark]

1 hour ago, queensquare said:

Ive contacted a mate who is also a chippy and we have provisionally agreed to do the workshop roof over the weekend of 28/29 May. This will give me the rest of the summer to refurbish the interior and then make some real progress next winter - very excited!

 

If any members have any influence on the weather can I please book a few  dry days please!! 🙏 😇

 

Jerry 

 

Do you think that's wise Captain Mainwaring?

1 - It's a bank holiday weekend

2 - I'm booked up for a vintage motorcycle run in Dorset on my 1938 Royal Enfield.

Bound to be damp!

Mark

 

[queensquare]

45 minutes ago, 2mmMark said:

Do you think that's wise Captain Mainwaring?

1 - It's a bank holiday weekend

2 - I'm booked up for a vintage motorcycle run in Dorset on my 1938 Royal Enfield.

Bound to be damp!

Mark

 

 

The bank holiday is the following weekend because of Bettie's  75 years on the throne so Im hoping we should be ok. Also, I dont work in a bank so these funny holidays dont mean much to me! 😀

 

Jerry

[Donw]

Although not cheap an EDPM is a sinle sheet of rubber so it can keep a shower off once it is thrown over. Alternatively a suitable tarpaulin kept handy would also do the job ( beware of holes in well used tarpaulins).

 

Don

 

 

[2mm Andy]

2 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

The bank holiday is the following weekend because of Bettie's  75 years on the throne so Im hoping we should be ok. Also, I dont work in a bank so these funny holidays dont mean much to me! 😀

 

Jerry

 

The last weekend in May is usually Railex weekend (although sadly not this year), which either seems to feature very hot and sunny weather or torrential rain and thunderstorms. For your sake I hope it's the former this year, but Don's suggestion of a tarpaulin seems a good one! Hope it goes well and I look forward to seeing photos of the results.

 

PS. HMQ has 'only' managed 70yrs so far. 

 

Andy

[queensquare]

Thanks gents, if rain is forecast I will just choose another weekend!

The two of us should be able to strip the old roof and get a new set of timbers on and felted in a day.

 

Jerry

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by queensquare

[queensquare]

Ceiling  and insulation down. Bath to the right, twin tunnels at the end and Tucking Mill viaduct far left. Colliery is in the spare bedroom and fiddle  has its travel cover on in the right foreground.

Its nerve racking stuff but so far so good. Still forecast is set fair now and Ive got my beans in!!

 

Jerry

 

[Donw]

best wishes with the project not that I doubt your ability and you seem to have it well planned.

 

Don

[NHY 581]

11 hours ago, Donw said:

best wishes with the project not that I doubt your ability and you seem to have it well planned.

 

Don

 

 

Given the nature of the contents, Don, it's fair to say Jerry will not be taking any chances with the refurbishment..........

 

Rob

[Donw]

14 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Given the nature of the contents, Don, it's fair to say Jerry will not be taking any chances with the refurbishment..........

 

Rob

 

We all need a bit of luck with such projects that the weather holds and that no unforeseen problems arise.

 

Don

[queensquare]

No changing my mind now!

 

 

 

[Re6/6]

Point of no return, brave fellow Jerry!

 

My new shed pales into insignificance to yours, it's only 0.8m x 2m! It's actually purely for storage of plastic boxes full of railway stuff thus giving me more 'train space' in the big shed!

 

[queensquare]

16 hours ago, Re6/6 said:

Point of no return, brave fellow Jerry!

 

My new shed pales into insignificance to yours, it's only 0.8m x 2m! It's actually purely for storage of plastic boxes full of railway stuff thus giving me more 'train space' in the big shed!

 

 

Thanks John. Don’t know about brave but I’ve been wanting to replace the roof for ages. To be fair the original never leaked but it was thrown up on the cheap and had started to sag quite alarmingly. There was also limited headroom and anybody over my height, 5’11” and shrinking, had to duck under the lights. I thought about just putting a prop in the centre but in the end decided to bite the bullet and replace the lot. The roof itself will only take the weekend to strip and replace but packing down the workshop beforehand then replacing  all the insulation, ceiling, lights etc will probably take out a month but it will be worth it. 

 

I’ve put a new wall plate on which raises the height by a couple of inches at the eaves and made it a good foot higher at the ridge. All the prep is done and  I’m waking up to clear blue skies so looks set fair for the second half of the roof to go on today. After weeks of stressing about the project it feels really good to be cracking on.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

[Re6/6]

I couldn't face doing what you're doing since there is a 15ft drop on one side of mine! Mine too was sagging so I have propped it up with three 2x3's to rectify that and despite much sealing, it weeps in one or two places so I'm going to add to it using corrugated bitumen sheets with Jablite insulation underneath. A fairly cost effective way with the sheets at just under £15 each.