Jump to content

New OO gauge Class 73


33212
 Share

Recommended Posts

As the title says, Dapol are doing the Class 73 in OO, seen the Kernow message from Andy Y, but at Ally Pally,

 

Gaugemaster were advertising a limited edition 73101, two available, Pullman livery as "The Royal Alex" and "Brighton Evening Argus" - price id £124.99..

 

Had a conversation with the Dapol people there and it should be out hopefully in less than a year, they are doing two blue livery and two others.....

 

fully DCC and they are looking at matrix's for the headcodes, and various other things.....

 

hope of interest

 

Matt

Edited by 33212
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest 40-something

Is the probable change to a "JA" type later going to be reversible ?

 

I.E. Will a later class 73 be mouldable at a still later date ?

 

THANKS.

 

I would imagine so, I believe Dapol use mould 'inserts' for various detailing differences, it would make sense anyway. Either that or they'd have 2 moulds for JA and JB variants but with the much smaller amount of liveries carried by JA's it'd be a wrong move to irreversibly change the mould of the JB.

 

Just my thoughts though!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one can not wait for them... I've already pre-ordered a Blue & Large Logo from a certain Liverpool retailer!

 

One thing I would add is sort of a wish (dreaming?)... the ability to purchase that chassis seperatly w/o the body. This way, those of use who have multiple 73's from the other guys (7 of them in my case) would be able to upgrade our bodies to a far superior effort than the re-heated Limby offering that won't pull the skin off of a rice pudding.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • RMweb Premium

Whilst it's great to see a new Class 73 being produced, I'm not convinced all these limited editions is really in our best interests, particularly if they are limited to 250 each. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against limited editions, but looking at what has been announced, and there seem to be quite a few, I do wonder if some should be standard releases with a decent production run to satisfy likely demand.

 

Whilst the Model Rail 73131 in Dutch and the Kernow Network Rail 73212 will not preclude other numbered locos being produced in the same livery, the same cannot be said of, for example, the unique Pullman liveried 73101. Surely Dapol should have kept this livery for themselves as a standard release? I can see people making a killing in due course if only 250 of each name carried are available and Dapol cannot make any more later. If the Class 73 is the success I hope it is for Dapol, I fear its policy of small production runs may become counter-productive with potential customers unable to buy what they want, even shortly after release. It may be right for N gauge, but the OO market is bigger and so should justify longer production runs.

 

I appreciate we can all pre-order but if there is pent up demand for a particular livery that cannot be satisfied, maybe that is not in Dapol's best interests, particularly in terms of increasing market share.

 

Does anyone share my reservations?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand your concerns completly, but is there not a set time on how long a shop/organisation has exclusivity of a model/paint scheme? After all the 73's aren't a shop specific model like the BWT's or sentinels whose models are owned by Kernow and Model rail respectively.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bachmann did the same thing with a 66 that Kernow commissioned. the half Shanks half freightliner livery. i think they put a 40th anniversary logo on it and was either DCC or Sound fitted.

 

So if there is demand I dare say they would do a rerun.

 

AListair

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi chaps,

 

Just to clarify this for you.

 

Dapol will NEVER re-run a particular name and number of any loco except for the original client.

 

Basically we say that a loco number and it's livery is taken, and is the sole 'property' of the client to use, re-run etc.

It's also only polite and good manners to take this stance, as the client has taken the financial punt and shown good faith in the company, and we dont like to pee on anyone's parade in this way with re-running their model for ourselves.

 

I hope this helps?

Cheers

Dave

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Hi chaps,

 

Just to clarify this for you.

 

Dapol will NEVER re-run a particular name and number of any loco except for the original client.

 

Basically we say that a loco number and it's livery is taken, and is the sole 'property' of the client to use, re-run etc.

It's also only polite and good manners to take this stance, as the client has taken the financial punt and shown good faith in the company, and we dont like to pee on anyone's parade in this way with re-running their model for ourselves.

 

I hope this helps?

Cheers

Dave

 

Thank you Dave for the confirmation - this was my understanding and why I posted as I did.

 

What it effectively means is that the commissioner of, using my example, the Pullman 73101 now have exclusive rights to that number/names/liveries. So some years down the line and there is again sufficient demand but the original commissioner is not interested, we can all forget it.

 

In my opinion there are some liveries, this being one, where the hobby's interests are best served by a manufacturer reserving the livery for a standard release. Ten years hence, for example, do we want to be buying a Limby 73 to get the Pullman livery because Dapol can't produce any more of what will undoubtedly be a better model? Hasn't Bachmann refused some limited editions to preserve a livery for a standard release? Why not Dapol?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andrew,

 

If there is enough demand (and i'm talking an MOQ (minimum order quantity) of 250 models here, and the original comissioner isnt interested i cannot see why that would be the case as its sensible to make more.

 

Please remember it's all about MOQ's, and while they can be lowered, only at a financial cost, and the Pullmann would be a larger financial cost because of the painting / printing time being lots more than most locomotives. Hence 250 being a 'reasonable' cost effective minimum amount to produce.

 

Cheers

Dave

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi GaryHN

 

Here's the list to date and i expect it to grow.

cheers

Dave

 

4D010001 73102 Intercity (Mainline) Airtour Swiss JB Dapol

4D010002 73105 Large Logo blue N/A JB Dapol

4D010003 73124 BR Blue N/A JB Dapol

4D010004 73135 BR Blue N/A JB Dapol

DAGM101 73101 Pullmann Brighton evening Argus JB Gaugemaster

DAGM100 73101 Pullmann The Royal Alex JB Gaugemaster

K2800 73212 Network Rail Yellow N/A JB Kernow

73128 Engineers Grey / Yellow O.V.S. Bullied JB Model Rail

E6047 Original Blue with small yellow W.panel N/A JB The Hobby Shop

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Thanks again Dave, but I think you're missing mypoint. My original post sought to focus on general principles, but on the specific case Hornby has no doubt produced and sold thousands of the Limby Pullman Class 73s as it was a standard release, whereas Dapol is now limiting production to two limited editions of 250 each. This may be enough to satisfy current demand, or it may not. What if it isn't? The Class 73 is popular as all things Pullman seem to be, even if 500 is enough for now I would predict that there will be demand again in the future.

 

The original commissioner may for any number of reasons not be interested in another production run - their business strategy may change and they no longer commission limited editions, or they may simply not want to dilute the value of their original limited edition by having more made. If you sell a limited edition as one of 250 and price accordingly, it does your reputation no good at all if later you commission another production run. Collectors are a key element of the limited edition market and they may not buy other limited editions from the same retailer if they thought more would be produced later. So in my view there is a real possibility that Dapol could not produce any more in the future.

 

Is that really in Dapol's interests? Would Dapol refuse a limited edition to preserve a livery as a standard release?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andrew,

 

Nope, didnt miss the point at all.

 

The original comisisoner is at liberty to produce (if there is a demand) more of this loco in this livery, and that is their choice.

No end of debate on the subject will nulify our agreement (both a gentlemans one and a written one) with Gaugemaster, and i note yours is the only discenting voice i have heard either on the phone or online since this project was announced, so that begs the question.........where is the demand for more than 500?

 

If you know, please tell me. If you can prove it's more than 500, please tell Gaugemaster as i'm pretty sure those guys would love to make more money! :locomotive:

Cheers

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The original comisisoner is at liberty to produce (if there is a demand) more of this loco in this livery, and that is their choice.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Please let me be clear - I was not and would not suggest you should nulify your agreement with Gaugemaster - a very good retailer from whom I have bought in the past and would do so again. I deliberately did not refer to them by name in my previous posts because the who was not relevant.

 

I have primarily been talking about meeting potential - and as yet unknown - future demand. Dapol could at some point in the future find itself with demand for a particular livery that it could not meet because, for whatever reason, the original commissioner did not want to produce any more. Dapol are I am pleased to see breaking into the OO loco market and as your market share increases, so should sales of each livery produced... unless you cannot meet that demand. Would retaining more of the most popular liveries, whatever they may be from your market research, for standard releases therefore not be in Dapol's best future interests?

 

Anyway, I think I've made my point and thanks for replying and I look forward to the finished product.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave

Great news, personally for sentimental reasons the NSE version of City of Winchester would be great.

 

I also have a second request can you at this early design stage ensure that adequate clearance is built into the bogie side frames to allow a straight forward conversion to EM or P4 and that 2mm diameter axles are used, no weird axle diameters please.

 

Regards

 

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

 

Please let me be clear - I was not and would not suggest you should nulify your agreement with Gaugemaster - a very good retailer from whom I have bought in the past and would do so again. I deliberately did not refer to them by name in my previous posts because the who was not relevant.

 

I have primarily been talking about meeting potential - and as yet unknown - future demand. Dapol could at some point in the future find itself with demand for a particular livery that it could not meet because, for whatever reason, the original commissioner did not want to produce any more. Dapol are I am pleased to see breaking into the OO loco market and as your market share increases, so should sales of each livery produced... unless you cannot meet that demand. Would retaining more of the most popular liveries, whatever they may be from your market research, for standard releases therefore not be in Dapol's best future interests?

 

Anyway, I think I've made my point and thanks for replying and I look forward to the finished product.

 

I think, and I hope that I am not mis interupting what DapolDave is saying, If there was true demand for a re-run in a certain livery it would be equally as easy for said retailer to order an additional 250 as it would for Dapol to produce them themselves. If it was only 20 or 30 modellers who missed out then it wouldnt be worth Dapols producing it even if there were no agreements in place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think, and I hope that I am not mis interupting what DapolDave is saying, If there was true demand for a re-run in a certain livery it would be equally as easy for said retailer to order an additional 250 as it would for Dapol to produce them themselves. If it was only 20 or 30 modellers who missed out then it wouldnt be worth Dapols producing it even if there were no agreements in place.

 

I can totally see what Andrew is saying, and I think the point has been missed somewhat here. Collectors will buy a model because it is a limited edition, thus it is collectible, so if they buy a model which is a limited edition of 250 units, then a couple of years later another 250 are produced then that collector isn't going to be happy as the reason they brought it in the first place was because they were led to believe they were buying one of only 250 models of that particular loco that would be produced. Look at the outcry when modelzone did a run of the RTC class 24 experiment or subsequent batches of DP1 from the NRM, and from what Dave has said above it seems to me that Dapol are opening the door for a similar situation again, albeit in this case by the same commissioner as the original 'limited edition'.

 

Cheers, Richard

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see where Andrew is coming from too. I managed to get a blue 73 in N gauge ... it took months of hunting and I had to pay well over the odds. Likewise I had a real ****s ache getting the blue 22 in OO I wanted.

 

Perhaps Dapol could follow the Bachmann model of limited editions? The commissioning retailer has dibs of the livery/model for a set number of years, then Dapol can release them in the general range.

 

btw Dave, any chance of more 73s in N gauge, atleast for the popular liveries like banger blue?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

 

I wasn't trying to be obtuse in my answer, the liveries have been decided by gentlemans agreement and subsequently by written undertaking.

 

I would like to think that Dapol would be honourable and keep to that, or else I believe our growing credibility will diminish.

 

If said company wishes to produce said loco again, that is up to then, just as it is up to them how they then market it.......... Falcon, and DP1 spring to mind as potential avenues.

 

Any loco we produce for a third party opens the door should they decide to produce again, and in this event, that's nothing to do with Dapol as commissioned manufacturer, but all to do with the commissioner.

 

Looking at various sales profiles I'd think that 500 of said loco would probably max out sales for that livery, but don't or get there is also the possibility of sound fitted ones etc to be able to produce another run.

But.........if you want one, then order one. Gauge master may get swamped with orders and decide to increase their order with us, but only you, the customer, can decide if you want one or not.

 

As for blue N scale 73's, think that may. Not happen as initial blue ones ended up priced to clear......such was the demand!

Cheers

Dave

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

As for blue N scale 73's, think that may. Not happen as initial blue ones ended up priced to clear......such was the demand!

 

Hi

 

That may have been because people couldn't wait as they were one of the last liveries produced and so people may have bought the others to repaint.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Things seem to be gone quiet here...

 

I was informed that my lovely wife has pre-ordered me a Guagemaster LE Pullman version for my birthday :maninlove:

 

How's progress on the Class 73?

And any chance you could produce one unpainted with all the bits on sprues?

 

Tony M

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...