Downendian details

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Stop fishing for compliments Phil!!

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

Running trials with the Herring rake - all looking good except some wheels a little “stiff” and not as free running as I would like. Some wheelsets May need to come out for a clean of the bearings as I suspect weathering grot has leached into them. Some maybe due to the brake gear being too close and file at the ready.

First extensive use of instanters, very pleased with the close coupling and more prototypical appearance and do appear to be behaving over pointwork. The big test yet to come, a run up the helix.

[Phil Bullock]

Looking great Neil. Mine still need a bit more tweaking for reliable running…

[Enterprisingwestern]

14 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Looking great Neil. Mine still need a bit more tweaking for reliable running…

 

Agree, loving the 3 links, and mine still need the box to be found to see how far I've got with them!

Currently having a p way wagon phase so they might be in danger of being finished!

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

The Herring rake will be predominantly hauled by Hymeks, reflecting the late 1960s operations of Tytherington quarry where prototypical shots show this actually happened. I’m extending the 1967 closure of the route as if it never happened and operations continued through 1967 until the relaying and reopening in July 1972. 
I have a large Hymek fleet, but gradually working through them getting Shawplan upgrades, roof fans, removal of headboard clips etc to reflect the D7000-D7033 batch , new air horns etc. The Heljan model is an excellent starting point, but all lack the lower door handle modification which was applied to all locos from 1966, the exceptions being D7005, D7021, D7054 and D7060. This is quite a prominent feature, and hopefully the new Heljan tooling reflects this. My Hymek fleet will be initially all locos I actually saw in operation (relatively few in late 1974) plus about half the class in scrapyard condition. First up for such treatment in D7026 which I saw in action August 1974, when there were just a handful still in service D7011; D7017; D7018; D7022; D7026; D7028; D7029 and D7093.

On discussion with my good friend Phil Bullock and others on here plus the evergreen site of excellence (Kier Hardy EM gauge 1970s) I think I’ve come up with a solution to model this modification, after purchasing multiple brass etches which were either too big or too small.

Almost the exact size can be obtained by cutting out individual panes from the Ratio N-gauge domestic windows brass etch and introducing the central bar with 0.3mm plastruct rod. A trial run this morning with the etch, put in place to judge size and appearance. It’s not an exact match, but serves my purposes. Excuse the rough and ready shot, as it’s a work in progress.

The prototype (From Reddit)

the raw materials 

first attempt - since refined - brass trimmed and central bar glued in place after careful trimming. The other three will involve protecting the bodywork with masking tape- noting the sideswipe from an errant drill! A cruel close up photo- the real thing is tiny and fiddly to work with.

Neil

Edited June 11, 2022 by Downendian

[Enterprisingwestern]

Does anyone have the exact dimensions of this surround, I have a plan!

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

Completed one side of D7026, fairly pleased with the result despite the weird lighting effect in the photo. Quick waft with primer so I could also judge the removal of the headboard clips too. 

[Phil Bullock]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Does anyone have the exact dimensions of this surround, I have a plan!

 

Mike.

Is it a cunning plan Mike? 

[Downendian]

According to the Kier Hardy gang the cab door hole needs to be 2mm x 2mm, but all photos I’ve looked at show a slight rectangular surround.

Neil 

[Phil Bullock]

And 2mm square brass section is what I used… with the finest etched brass strip I could find for the handle…. Think I sacrificed some shawplan wipers , but flat not round. 
 

I reckon 2 x 1.5 mm would be the best for accuracy

[dj_crisp]

On 11/06/2022 at 14:33, Enterprisingwestern said:

Does anyone have the exact dimensions of this surround, I have a plan!

 

Mike.

 

I don't but I like the sound of this plan.... :)

[Downendian]

Two Hymeks approaching decals, numbers and glazing stages.

the first is a simpler rework of a spare Heljan bodyshell, new air horns, Shawplan etched scavenger grille, floor level door handles, repaint and wire handrails to become D7026 one of the last in service in 1974.

the second is a much longer project which has featured earlier in this thread. D7029 which started life in 1974 as my thirteenth birthday present - never discarded and never will. Reshaped cab roof and windows, new roof panel with etched scavenger grille, floor level grab handles, and (never to be repeated) roof panel lifting eyes. These were a pig to do, and completed them before respraying which was a mistake. The lifting eyes are so fine that no matter how careful you are with painting they clog up. With hindsight fit these after spraying as they come precoloured, I used Dapol Western lifting eyes. I cut the eyes off the fret and threaded them onto a segment of 10lb bs carp fishing line which then served as a very useful tool for fitting to the roof. I will refit D7029s lifting eyes as the roof needs more attention using a fresh fret, I would recommend the fishing line method though as it minimises losing the blighters to the carpet monster, plus I have loads of Dapol Westerns to do.

The good thing with photos is that you get to spot errors, the errant handrail on D7029 has just been removed and to be replaced as the door level handles which need a tidy up. There have been several rounds of paint touching up, still no where near as good as a factory finish, but they are models I will not part with, and they still are better detailed then anything available RTR. However, the Hornby model especially the cab window area is hugely challenging including the fact that the nearly 50 year old  plastic  is extremely brittle.

D7029 was the first Hymek in my spotting book, 48 years ago July 1974, which I remember like yesterday. It roared eastwards on a South Wales Paddington parcels through Bristol Parkway, most probably a rake of Siphon Gs.

 

alignment and fitting roof lifting eyes

D7026 (Heljan) and D7029 heavily modified Hornby top/bottom

Edited July 17, 2022 by Downendian

[Phil Bullock]

Brilliant Neil. Think I would have copped out with the lifting eyes and used Bachmann warship ones instead… those Dapol ones are a mare! 

[Downendian]

Yes I’d have preferred the Bachmann lifting rings Phil, but Bachmann spares have none in stock. 

[Downendian]

Another rake started, coinciding with the arrival of a new airbrush which has stalled the completion of the two Hymeks above.

Stone branded MSVs were a staple in the Bristol area, and worked various flows from Tytherington quarry in South Glos., and a rake or two was almost always sat in Stoke Gifford yard in the 1970s. I’d begun to purchase the Bachmann RTR version of this wagon, but at close on £30 a unit, it was going to be pricey to build a rake of 25 going this route. I hadn’t realised until quite recently (via a thread on this venerable forum) that Parkside offer a diag 1/185 26T vac fitted MSV so five were purchased for a test build, just a tad over £50. Now to try and get shot of the awful Hornby versions that I’d bought as a rake many moons ago.

Here’s the result of work over the past 3 days only a few hours really when factoring in glue cure and paint drying times. They absolutely flew together, and would recommend a similar build to anyone contemplating having a go a wagon kit bashing. They are considerably easier to build than Herrings/Catfish/Dogfish. All the undergubbins yet to be fitted, but I’ve got them to the critical axle fitting and test run to make sure all is true. They will receive railtec stone branded MSV transfers, hopefully with the same pool number for rakes that frequented Tytherington.

Another 15 or so to go, after finishing the first batch of 5, which is something to keep me going whilst the nights draw in. My layout has several storage loops in an effort to recreate a scene reminiscent of Bristol Parkway in the mid 1970s. This rake will one that will visit on a frequent basis.

Neil

Edited September 1, 2022 by Downendian

[John Tomlinson]

On 17/07/2022 at 18:13, Downendian said:

Two Hymeks approaching decals, numbers and glazing stages.

the first is a simpler rework of a spare Heljan bodyshell, new air horns, Shawplan etched scavenger grille, floor level door handles, repaint and wire handrails to become D7026 one of the last in service in 1974.

the second is a much longer project which has featured earlier in this thread. D7029 which started life in 1974 as my thirteenth birthday present - never discarded and never will. Reshaped cab roof and windows, new roof panel with etched scavenger grille, floor level grab handles, and (never to be repeated) roof panel lifting eyes. These were a pig to do, and completed them before respraying which was a mistake. The lifting eyes are so fine that no matter how careful you are with painting they clog up. With hindsight fit these after spraying as they come precoloured, I used Dapol Western lifting eyes. I cut the eyes off the fret and threaded them onto a segment of 10lb bs carp fishing line which then served as a very useful tool for fitting to the roof. I will refit D7029s lifting eyes as the roof needs more attention using a fresh fret, I would recommend the fishing line method though as it minimises losing the blighters to the carpet monster, plus I have loads of Dapol Westerns to do.

The good thing with photos is that you get to spot errors, the errant handrail on D7029 has just been removed and to be replaced as the door level handles which need a tidy up. There have been several rounds of paint touching up, still no where near as good as a factory finish, but they are models I will not part with, and they still are better detailed then anything available RTR. However, the Hornby model especially the cab window area is hugely challenging including the fact that the nearly 50 year old  plastic  is extremely brittle.

D7029 was the first Hymek in my spotting book, 48 years ago July 1974, which I remember like yesterday. It roared eastwards on a South Wales Paddington parcels through Bristol Parkway, most probably a rake of Siphon Gs.

 

alignment and fitting roof lifting eyes

D7026 (Heljan) and D7029 heavily modified Hornby top/bottom

 

Interesting picture side by side. Makes you realise that Hornby did a really good job all those years ago. I can see there's a bit more finesse in the Heljan moulding, but not a lot!

 

Great to see you picking up an old model and doing some enhancement. I'm all in favour of this rather than "chuck it away and buy the new one". Applies in many other areas of life as well.

 

John.

[MJI]

14 hours ago, Downendian said:

Another rake started, coinciding with the arrival of a new airbrush which has stalled the completion of the two Hymeks above.

Stone branded MSVs were a staple in the Bristol area, and worked various flows from Tytherington quarry in South Glos., and a rake or two was almost always sat in Stoke Gifford yard in the 1970s. I’d begun to purchase the Bachmann RTR version of this wagon, but at close on £30 a unit, it was going to be pricey to build a rake of 25 going this route. I hadn’t realised until quite recently (via a thread on this venerable forum) that Parkside offer a diag 1/185 26T vac fitted MSV so five were purchased for a test build, just a tad over £50. Now to try and get shot of the awful Hornby versions that I’d bought as a rake many moons ago.

Here’s the result of work over the past 3 days only a few hours really when factoring in glue cure and paint drying times. They absolutely flew together, and would recommend a similar build to anyone contemplating having a go a wagon kit bashing. They are considerably easier to build than Herrings/Catfish/Dogfish. All the undergubbins yet to be fitted, but I’ve got them to the critical axle fitting and test run to make sure all is true. They will receive railtec stone branded MSV transfers, hopefully with the same pool number for rakes that frequented Tytherington.

Another 15 or so to go, after finishing the first batch of 5, which is something to keep me going whilst the nights draw in. My layout has several storage loops in an effort to recreate a scene reminiscent of Bristol Parkway in the mid 1970s. This rake will one that will visit on a frequent basis.

Neil

 

 

I am trying to build a rake but need transfers as my home ones have faded.

 

But I do have two sets of wagon numbers with their pools.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

 

 

I am trying to build a rake but need transfers as my home ones have faded.

 

But I do have two sets of wagon numbers with their pools.

 

To show how long I've been on with my project, I've got an MTK sheet with 7 sets of stone markings, back in the day Colin reckoned another sheet was coming out with alternative numbers, guess there's no point waiting any longer, and anyhow, who prints on goat's parchment any more?

 

Mike.

[MJI]

 

[Fat Controller]

These are some contemporary notes (1974?) of wagons recorded at Stoke Gifford, IIRC;

B387834 (unfitted)

B387577 (unfitted) 'Stone' Logo

B384343 (unfitted) Branded 'Stone' on number panel

 

B388377 (fitted) Branded 'Ore VB'

B386371, B386742, B385778, B388528; all lettered MSV on data panel, with Pool 7657

 

I've had a cursory glance at Don Rowland's listings, and, whilst some of the above were listed as built with vacuum brakes, most were not. At the time, Barton Hill shops had dozens of MSO and HTOs undergoing fitting, repainting and relettering; I don't know where else, if anywhere, was engaged in the project. Swindon and Shildon were engaged in other rebodying, but didn't seem to be vac-fitting.

[Downendian]

Very useful gen gentlemen, many thanks . To Brian, also I hadn’t realised so many unfitted MSOs were at Stoke Gifford, unfortunately not too many photos exist of them there, and those that do you couldn’t tell if they were MSO or MSV.

Neil

Edited September 2, 2022 by Downendian

[Downendian]

Running trials of the rake of 18 black Herrings this afternoon/evening. Two further gulf red wagons await completing. I’m pleased to say that despite some pointwork requiring attention (stalling on frog-juiced frogs??), just two wagons were put on the naughty step. One has been resolved, ( brake rodding was rubbing against an axle)and the other appears to have the same issue. Both had a pronounced wobble when running. D6314 did the honours of which I’m yet to complete, just requiring painting of green buffer cowls to blue and buffer beams to black and a bit of weathering.

 

Pretty pleasing, and the whole rake is fitted with instanters, which are a pig to couple up but I’m getting quite adept at doing so now. They behaved impeccably, and the close coupling achieved is an absolute joy to behold once  the derailing was cured. The rake is now running much more sweetly as I guess the bearings have bedded into the weathering grot that inevitably penetrated them. I’ll add a black or gulf red shark to the tail of the rake too. Excuse the detritus in the back and foreground, layout still much in progress.

 

I and my lovely wife had the great pleasure of the company of Phil and Teri Bullock for dinner last night. Phil has witnessed my chaotic layout room which is slowly taking shape since retiring four years ago. A thoroughly enjoyable weekend.

 

Neil

Edited September 5, 2022 by Downendian
Images

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, Downendian said:

I and my lovely wife had the great pleasure of the company of Phil and Terri Bullock for dinner last night. Phil has witnessed my chaotic layout room which is slowly taking shape since retiring four years ago. A thoroughly enjoyable weekend.

 

I bet I could have a stab at what was for pudding!!!

Very envious.

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

19 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I bet I could have a stab at what was for pudding!!!

Very envious.

 

Mike.

When you’re in England Mike an invite is always there.

[Phil Bullock]

12 hours ago, Downendian said:

Running trials of the rake of 18 black Herrings this afternoon/evening. Two further gulf red wagons await completing. I’m pleased to say that despite some pointwork requiring attention (stalling on frog-juiced frogs??), just two wagons were put on the naughty step. One has been resolved, ( brake rodding was rubbing against an axle)and the other appears to have the same issue. Both had a pronounced wobble when running. D6314 did the honours of which I’m yet to complete, just requiring painting of green buffer cowls to blue and buffer beams to black and a bit of weathering.

 

Pretty pleasing, and the whole rake is fitted with instanters, which are a pig to couple up but I’m getting quite adept at doing so now. They behaved impeccably, and the close coupling achieved is an absolute joy to behold once  the derailing was cured. The rake is now running much more sweetly as I guess the bearings have bedded into the weathering grot that inevitably penetrated them. I’ll add a black or gulf red shark to the tail of the rake too. Excuse the detritus in the back and foreground, layout still much in progress.

 

I and my lovely wife had the great pleasure of the company of Phil and Terri Bullock for dinner last night. Phil has witnessed my chaotic layout room which is slowly taking shape since retiring four years ago. A thoroughly enjoyable weekend.

 

Neil

It certainly was a very pleasant afternoon/evening Neil. Thanks for having us over! 
 

Those rakes of PW wagons are impressive for sure, glad you hear the herrings are behaving. The whole layout looks excellent, can’t wait to visit again. 

 

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I bet I could have a stab at what was for pudding!!!

Very envious.

 

Mike.

 

Sharons lovely cheesecake! Teri will make some shortbread when you are over Mike