Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

A new departure for Arthur, on the J72 kits, is the provision of a riveted smokebox wrapper. The original batch of J72's were built with flush riveted smokeboxes, which gave the impression of there being no rivets there. Later batches of the J72's had riveted smokeboxes where the rivets were plainly visible.

 

This is achieved by providing an etched smokebox wrapper with the rivet locations half etched on the inside of the wrapper. These rivets must then be carefully pressed out.  I use a sharpened (though not too much) compass point and do this pressing on a flat piece of plasticard. I have used cardboard but with this material it is easy to press through the etching, whereas plasticard does provide enough resistance to prevent going through the brass.

 

Even so, with upwards of ninety rivets to press out, it does take a little while and does require some care. But the result is well worth it. This also tends to preclude the use of rollers - unless some form of packing is used to protect the rivets - to form the smokebox wrapper as they will very efficiently push the rivet impressions back in. I rolled the wrapper just using fingers, which did take around an hour to get the correct profile, but did prevent any loss of the rivets.

 

Again, soldering the smokebox wrapper to the front and rear smokebox formers needs care as any solder straying into the riveted areas cannot be abraded off with emery or fine files without damaging the emobossed rivets.

 

So, I've now done a smokebox swap on the two J72's as the rivets on the second smokebox were far better than the first, so the first was just smoothed flush for use with the earlier short bunker version.

 

I see that Bachmann have announced a new model of the J72. I think I'll stick to the kits!!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 19, 2017 by mikemeg

[billbedford]

Again, soldering the smokebox wrapper to the front and rear smokebox formers needs care as any solder straying into the riveted areas cannot be abraded off with emery or fine files without damaging the emobossed rivets.

 

 

 

But a glass brush will remove solder while leaving the rivets proud.

[mikemeg]

But a glass brush will remove solder while leaving the rivets proud.

 

Indeed it will. And that's what I did use to clean up the soldering. I get through an inordinate number of glass fibre refills, for the brush, while building an etched kit!!

 

Thanks Bill.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Deano747]

Indeed it will. And that's what I did use to clean up the soldering. I get through an inordinate number of glass fibre refills, for the brush, while building an etched kit!!

 

Thanks Bill.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Gariflex blocks work well and last for ages! Available in 3 grades. I only ever use medium and fine.

(Available from several outlets but I can't remember where mine came from- sorry!)

 

 

Regards, Deano.

 

Edit; Check out amazon!

Edited August 16, 2017 by Deano747

[mikemeg]

The plan to complete both of the J72's, together, received a boost when I decided to swap the smokeboxes and boilers between the two models.

 

So now the basic superstructure is almost complete on both models. Next stages are to finish the boiler detailing on the long bunker version and to build the chassis on the short bunker version. This should see them both reach the same stage, after which they can both be completed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 16, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

A few more photos of J72's. The first two photos show a couple of the final batch of J72's built 1949-1951. Neither loco is vacuum fitted.

 

The third photo is of the first one of the class - 68670 - in its BR days. Note that by this time, this loco is sporting group standard LNER buffers.

 

The photo in colour really shows the way that the black weathers to a graphite grey.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 19, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Apart from the absence of the chassis for the short bunker J72, which is different to that of the later, longer bunker version, and a few other details, the two models are now approaching the same state. Neither of the two boiler/smokebox assemblies are yet fixed into the superstructure and neither cab roof is fixed either.

 

It should be emphasised here, that the two versions of the J72 are entirely separate kits; they are not variations of a single kit, even though some of the parts are the same. Equally, the J71 is yet another separate kit.

 

With the J71, the two versions of the J72, the J73 and the two versions of the J77, then Arthur has now pretty well covered the 0-6-0 tanks of the old North Eastern, the North Eastern Area of the LNER and BR North Eastern Region, covering the period from 1886, when the J71's were first introduced, up to the early 1960's.

 

So, a 'family photo'.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 19, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

The two J72's are now pretty well in sync - they have both reached almost the same stage - so I can now duplicate the remaining operations on the two builds.

 

Apart from the bunker lengths - the first twenty J72's (NER Class E1) had a bunker some 5 1/2" shorter than the remaining members of the class - the mainframe profile, on the first twenty, was also different as was the brake linkage arrangement. The first twenty E1's (J72's) were built with brake linkage rods on each side; later locos had the compensated brake linkage with a single,centrally mounted brake linkage rod. Of course, some of the first twenty were later fitted with the compensated brake linkage, so a photo of any particular loco, at or around the date of the model is advisable.

 

The photo shows the different mainframe profiles between the two vatiants.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 30, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Now to add the final details to this model, the B16/1. Some of the originally supplied castings have been replaced, largely by castings from Arthur's range, so these can now be added to the model. All of the backhead castings, the mechanical lubricators and some tender castings - some still to be fitted - have been replaced by castings from Arthur's brass and white metal ranges. The tender springs/axleboxes are from David Bradwell's range of castings.

 

I also have to add the various pipe runs along the boiler and firebox plus the couplings and vacuum connections. By the time of this model - 1950 - the Westinghouse pumps had been removed so that will not be fitted.

 

I even managed to get the smokebox lamp iron to stand vertically, after some persuasion!!

 

So my initial scepticism about this kit has been dispelled and it has turned out very well. All I have to do now is provide drawings of the assembly sequence and any modifications made and some changes to the instructions such that any amendments/additions to the etches can be made by LRM.

 

Even so, I would recommend this kit, even as it stands, to anyone prepared to make the changes and mods. I may even build another one!! And I really must thank John  Redrup and Jol Wilkinson, of London Road Models, for their patience and forbearance while I built this.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 5, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

A little more progress on the two J72's. Now the sharp eyed reader/viewer will notice that the cab doors are a different colour to the rest of the loco, which would suggest that a different material has been used for these components. Tis true; but not because the etched brass doors were wrong or ill fitting; not a bit of it. The etched cab doors fit perfectly

.

This is because I omitted to fit these doors when I should have done - during the initial assembly of the tank sides/cab sides - such that when I did come to fit them, I couldn't get them in and couldn't secure them. So a different method had to be substituted and I resorted to the tried and tested .010" plasticard.

 

Of course, once the two models are primed, then no-one will know; much less care!

 

Those smokebox lamp irons take a little while but they are worth the time to get right.

 

They were pretty little locos, these little J's.

 

And yes, by 1950 the chosen representaive of the first batch - 68670 - did have the LNER group standard buffers. Amazing to reflect that the prototypes of these two models were built over fifty years apart.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 7, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Last job on the B16/1 is the backhead. Though a white metal casting was supplied with the kit, I wanted a backhead which would partially fit into the back of the firebox, so scratch built one from plasticard. After the various fixing holes, for the brass castings, had been made, then the backhead was painted and weathered. I always find it easier to do this before the backhead detail is added.

 

Then the job of gradually building up the detailing on the backhead can begin. The pipework to the gauge glasses is just 0.4 mm wire, bent to profile. I won't say how long it took to position and fix those pipes but I did not want any extraneous fixing clips showing!

 

With any tender loco, where the cab and backhead are in full view, then I think it is well worth taking time to get this area right; or as right as it can be!

 

This photo also shows the cutouts which had to be made in the firebox sides to clear the driving wheels. The firebox, on this model, is actually 17 mm wide so these cut outs were optional for P4 wheels, though I opted to make them to ease any clearance problems. They would certainly need to be made for EM or OO gauged wheels.

 

Also, if the 7 mm kit was a 'blow up' of the 4 mm kit or even the 3 mm kit, then the 7 mm firebox could be some 29.5 - 30.0 mm wide, which might also compromise the driving wheels in this gauge, necessitating cut outs on the 7 mm firebox?

 

And, just as I post this, the postman arrives and presents me with two very interesting packages, one of which is the gearboxes for the two J72's!!!

 

The second photo is the completed cab of the J24, prior to painting. This is a much simpler backhead than the B16/1.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 20, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Apart from some pipework and couplings, the external detailing on this model is now almost complete. This photo was taken just to check on the positioning of certain components - that vacuum pipe isn't yet quite right at the cab end! Though I always set up the photos with the blue background and carefully angled lighting, the photos are often just taken to check on the straightness, parallel or perpendicular juxtaposition of items as they are added.

 

It's a bit of a hobby horse of mine as to how many reasonable or very good models are badly (sometimes appallingly badly) represented by awful photography. Only takes a couple of minutes to set them up, light them appropriately and then focus the camera properly!!

 

Even more of Arthur's castings on this with those mechanical lubricators, which are really lovely castings!!

 

It's been a long haul, this one, but I think it looks like a B16/1.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited December 12, 2017 by mikemeg

[wagonman]

Last job on the B16/1 is the backhead. Though a white metal casting was supplied with the kit, I wanted a backhead which would partially fit into the back of the firebox, so scratch built one from plasticard. After the various fixing holes, for the brass castings, had been made, then the backhead was painted and weathered. I always find it easier to do this before the backhead detail is added.

 

Then the job of gradually building up the detailing on the backhead can begin. The pipework to the gauge glasses is just 0.4 mm wire, bent to profile. I won't say how long it took to position and fix those pipes but I did not want any extraneous fixing clips showing!

 

With any tender loco, where the cab and backhead are in full view, then I think it is well worth taking time to get this area right; or as right as it can be!

 

This photo also shows the cutouts which had to be made in the firebox sides to clear the driving wheels. The firebox, on this model, is actually 17 mm wide so these cut outs were optional for P4 wheels, though I opted to make them to ease any clearance problems. They would certainly need to be made for EM or OO gauged wheels.

 

Also, if the 7 mm kit was a 'blow up' of the 4 mm kit or even the 3 mm kit, then the 7 mm firebox could be some 29.5 - 30.0 mm wide, which might also compromise the driving wheels in this gauge, necessitating cut outs on the 7 mm firebox?

 

And, just as I post this, the postman arrives and presents me with two very interesting packages, one of which is the gearboxes for the two J72's!!!

 

The second photo is the completed cab of the J24, prior to painting. This is a much simpler backhead than the B16/1.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

The B-B measurement in Scale 7 is 31.20 (minimum) so there would be no problem with the B16 firebox. 'Finescale' is a different matter...

[mikemeg]

 

 

And, just as I post this, the postman arrives and presents me with two very interesting packages, one of which is the gearboxes for the two J72's!!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Oh, and the second interesting package?

 

Arthur's latest development. The North Eastern Railway Class P1, LNER J25.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 26, 2017 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Test etch, presumably, Mike? If so, is the planned autumn delivery doable? 

[mikemeg]

Test etch, presumably, Mike? If so, is the planned autumn delivery doable? 

 

I'll test build this a.s.a.p. and there are some known 'bugs' which have been corrected, so hopefuly I won't find too many (ideally any) more.

 

The 3038 gallon tender is already a production kit and has been for some time, so that doesn't need any proving. Also, all of the castings are already available so there should be no delays there.

 

I would think and hope that late Autumn availability should be doable but, ultimately, it is Arthur's shout.

 

We'll do our best!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 20, 2017 by mikemeg

[ArthurK]

NER J25

 

Hopefully there won't be too many problems with this one but I have to be realistic. It will need new films. They only take days but the etching takes longer (usually 4-5 weeks). All being well we are looking at November for release. As Mike has pointed out there are no new casting masters to make for this one. I will keep my fingers crossed.

 

ArthurK

[Daddyman]

NER J25

 

Hopefully there won't be too many problems with this one but I have to be realistic. It will need new films. They only take days but the etching takes longer (usually 4-5 weeks). All being well we are looking at November for release. As Mike has pointed out there are no new casting masters to make for this one. I will keep my fingers crossed.

 

ArthurK

 

I'll test build this a.s.a.p. and there are some known 'bugs' which have been corrected, so hopefuly I won't find too many (ideally any) more.

 

The 3038 gallon tender is already a production kit and has been for some time, so that doesn't need any proving. Also, all of the castings are already available so there should be no delays there.

 

I would think and hope that late Autumn availability should be doable but, ultimately, it is Arthur's shout.

 

We'll do our best!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Thanks both of you! Fingers crossed. 

[mikemeg]

Thanks both of you! Fingers crossed. 

 

Normally, this J25 would follow the completion of the two J72's but as the test build is on the 'critical path' to an early release for this kit, then it would seem sensible to give priority to this test build, especially as so much of this kit is already proven (the 3038 gallon tender, all of the castings). Also the similarity in design and build to the J24 should help the process.

 

So if I appear to be leapfrogging, between models, it is to try and expedite this test build as quickly as possible.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 21, 2017 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Normally, this J25 would follow the completion of the two J72's but as the test build is on the 'critical path' to an early release for this kit, then it would seem sensible to give priority to this test build, especially as so much of this kit is already proven (the 3038 gallon tender, all of the castings). Also the similarity in design and build to the J24 should help the process.

 

So if I appear to be leapfrogging, between models, it is to try and expedite this test build as quickly as possible.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

And we still have to teach ourselves CAD. I haven't forgotten but I'm a bit up to my neck at the moment preparing models for my talk to the NERA in York in a couple of weeks' time. No chance of getting near an ex-NBR loco, let alone CAD! 

[mikemeg]

I have to confess that, in test building these kits, I do wonder how much descriptive detaiI I should provide on this thread. If I write a tutorial (even assuming that I am qualified so to do) then the experienced builder gets bored to tears. If I merely write some cursory notes then some may ask for more elaboration on certain approaches and processes.

 

Anyway in starting any build certain things are paramount :-

 

1) Whenever I cut out a brass etch, firstly all of the cusp is removed with a very fine file. On half etched layers it is only too easy to distort an edge through using too coarse a file or filing too aggressively, so very slow and very easy and hold the part as close to the filing action as possible On half etched parts I often draw file rather than file across, simply to avoid this distortion.

 

Also, on all etched components - brass or nickel silver - after cutting out and dressing the part, both sides are given a thorough polish with the glass fibre brush to remove any etching residue from the brass/nickel silver. This really does aid the soldering process.

 

2) The footplate, which is the basis of the model, must be straight in both horizontal planes and must not be twisted.

 

Where the footplate is composed of two layers, as on all of Arthur's kits, both layers should be absolutely straight before they are soldered together. Any folding of the lower footplate layer shoud be done before the two layers are soldered together. Also, do not solder from one end and then the other. Soldering heats up metal causing it to expand. This expansion, if constrained at both ends, can only cause bowing and the resulting footplate will never be straight.

 

Better to use locators to line up the two layers - pieces of scrap etch, broaches - and solder from one end to the other, allowing each partial soldering to cool before moving on.

 

3) As far as is possible, solder should be invisible once applied. That means soldering on the inside or underside whereever possible. Any solder which does land up on a topside should be dressed off with a fibre brush as soon as possible, rather than waiting till the end of the build when surfaces are much more encumbered with details.

 

So that's a cardinal rule for initially treating the etched parts and those are my two cardinal rules for assembling footplates.

 

And the J25 is now under way with its footplate folded and assembled. Next up the valances.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 22, 2017 by mikemeg

[Horsetan]

.....3) As far as is possible, solder should be invisible once applied. ....

 

^^

What he said. Best examples to see are those on some of the 7mm scale build threads. Try to spot the solder traces!

[mikemeg]

^^

What he said. Best examples to see are those on some of the 7mm scale build threads. Try to spot the solder traces!

 

Certainly agree with that; those 7mm builds are an example to everyone.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Daddyman]

I don't think you can bore anyone by giving too much detail, Mike. You never know when there will be a technique that has never occurred to even an experienced someone else. 

 

I always file tabs off with the file not at right angles to the edge off which the tabs are being filed - filing at about 45 degrees to the edge, from the front and the back. I've had much better results since I started doing it that way - no ghosts of tabs, and no inadvertent over-filing. It would take ages to explain why but I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't do it that way already. 

[ArthurK]

I don't think you can bore anyone by giving too much detail, Mike. You never know when there will be a technique that has never occurred to even an experienced someone else. 

 

I always file tabs off with the file not at right angles to the edge off which the tabs are being filed - filing at about 45 degrees to the edge, from the front and the back. I've had much better results since I started doing it that way - no ghosts of tabs, and no inadvertent over-filing. It would take ages to explain why but I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't do it that way already. 

 

I always use a very fine file on half-etched 12thou brass, filing along the edge rather than across it. For my half-etched footplate overlays I leave the tags until it is properly secured to the lower layer. It is much less liable to damage then. 

 

ArthurK

Edited September 22, 2017 by ArthurK