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Revolution proposing Class 21 and 29 in N Gauge

N Gauge revolution crowd-funding diesel 21 29 sad-eyed Scottish




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#1 Ben A

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 22:20

Hello all,

 

At the International N Gauge show at Leamington this weekend Revolution Trains is proposing Class 21 and 29 diesels in N Gauge.

 

These models would be manufactured by Dapol, who are currently working on a OO model.  Our goal is to bring modellers together to crowd-fund items that the manufacturers would not otherwise produce.  Dapol have indicated to us that an N gauge model is not otherwise in their immediate plans.

 

The price will be £110 for the standard DCC ready model, and £205 for DCC sound fitted. Because none of these locos exist anymore, the sound will be produced for us by Legomanbiffo using sounds from a genuine MAN engine (for the 21) and electrical equipment that was common to other locomotives that are still in existence.

From 1958-1960 North British in Glasgow built 58 type 2 locomotives, later given the TOPS code Class 21. The first 38 were deployed to the Eastern Region, the remainder to Scotland, though within months all
were sent north of the border.

When introduced all were in plain green, with disc indicators and nose connector doors, though later yellow warning panels were applied.

Poor reliability led to a limited scheme to re-engine some members of the class, designated Class 29.

D6123 was the first to receive the new Paxman engine, but the front end was not modified and it retained its disc headcode indicators.

 

6123 Eastfield 2.jpg

 

 

The other 19 converted locomotives received headcode boxes and received a two-tone gree livery.

 

6103.jpg

 

Some were also repainted into BR Blue livery. There are variations, with old or new style numbers and differing positions of the BR totem.

 

6129 Eastfield.jpg

 

(Thanks to Graham Wareham for these evocative photos.)

 

 

The re-engined locomotives were far more reliable and worked fairly successfully from Glasgow to Fort William and Oban, and across central Scotland via Perth and Aberdeen to Inverness.

However, in the early 1970s they were declared non-standard and all were withdrawn by the end of 1971. None are preserved.

 

This map shows approximately where they operated during their short careers, though it does not claim to be exhaustive:

 

21-29 route map.jpg

 

To reach the production threshold we need to get to 1200 orders for model 1, then a further 900 for model 2 - obviously whether the 21 or 29 comes first depends on which gets the most interest!

At the moment, as ever, we require no money just a serious expression of interest; we are hoping to have reached at least 1200 orders by Xmas so that work can begin in the New Year.

Since all the tooling will be paid for and funding is guaranteed, we are assured that our models would progress rapidly through the production cycle.

This model has been selected because we know Dapol can tool the characteristic face very well (it's the same, virtually, as their excellent Class 22) and they are producing this model in OO anyway. If this drive is successful we are hoping the N gauge model for our supporters would come out at about the same time as the OO model.

If it is produced, the model would be available in the standard Dapol range eventually but not for at least two years.

We also feel this model will go very well with the existing Farish Classes 24 and 25, and upcoming DJM Class 17; making small Scottish layouts very achievable.

cheers

Ben A.


Edited by Ben A, 10 September 2015 - 09:18 .

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#2 Bob Reid

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 22:34

Excellent choice Ben and wish your project well - hopefully though you'll have more luck getting them out of Dapol than the regular 4mm folk! 


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#3 Ben A

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 23:11

Hello Bob,

 

Thanks!  I am hoping that we can get enough interest together so that the 4mm and 2mm ones emerge at the same time.

 

I know Dapol's CAD in 4mm is well advanced.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


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#4 woodenhead

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 05:52

You've got me looking at my blue McRats and thinking, if I ignore the numbers that I can't see then a class 17 and a class 29 would comfortably sit alongside them and i could mix my maroon and blue/grey coaches........

 

Excellent choice of models and i like the fact it is extending on something that is already in motion, this sort of approach could open up other opportunities.


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#5 gelboy45

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 07:23

Excellent idea Ben and thank you. I need some of both..... 

 

Could you suggest a similar approach to the Class 33s to perhaps jolly them along?

 

Gerry  



#6 sulzer27jd

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 07:24

I know Scotland builds new railways, but Inverness to Peterhead?


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#7 Ben A

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:21

Hi Sulzer27jd,

 

Thanks for spotting that - map redrawn now.

 

If anyone else spots any mistakes, or can add other routes these locos were used on, please let us know!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.


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#8 ThaneofFife

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:45

Encouraging to see RevolutioN moving quite quickly in trying to bring more great N gauge models to market.


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#9 ThaneofFife

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:50

what was the earliest year these units operated north of the border? 



#10 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 11:19

Well, here's hopiNg that this proves to be a raiN daNce for the loNg aNNouNced OO model.

 

The refinement of the cab shape and glazing demonstrated on the class 22 does maintain my interest in seeing a RTR OO class 21. My modified Hornby bodyshell on a Bach mechanism runs sweetly enough, but is far from accurate; and looks shabby alongside more recent models. (The Iain Rice point about consistency being key, the more recent RTR has raised the bar for diesel types above what I can emulate by DIY.)

...a two-tone gree livery...

 

And that gree sticks like excrement to a digging implement doesn't it?



#11 Karhedron

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:27

what was the earliest year these units operated north of the border? 

I believe the ER locos were sent north in April 1960. This coincided pretty closely with the start of delivery for the ScR locos. The first loco built for the ScR was D6138 which was completed in February 1960. It is possible it entered service just before its ER sisters arrived but not by much.


Edited by Karhedron, 10 September 2015 - 12:37 .


#12 scottystitch

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:38

what was the earliest year these units operated north of the border? 

The first Scottish machine, D6138 went to Edinburgh St. Margarets in February 1960, Kittybrewster examples following shortly after.

 

Between April and September 1960, the original 'pilot' examples, previously working in England, were transferred to Glasgow Eastfield Depot (followed by all subsequent production machines). After various repairs and 'improvements', crew training between Glasgow BS and Dundee had commenced by January 1961, the engines running in pairs.

 

The short answer, is spring 1960, with Kittybrewster employing them on GNoSR lines.

 

Hope that helps.


Edited by scottystitch, 10 September 2015 - 12:40 .


#13 scottystitch

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:45

Ben, I still can't find any evidence at all that these engines ever worked over the Highland Main Line between Perth and Inverness. I suppose it would be churlish to say that one NEVER passed over these rails, but I don't think they did on any scheduled services......

 

Happy to be proved wrong.

 

And you may want to include the GSWR route from Glasgow to Carlisle (i.e. via Dumfries), as they found work on freight to Carlisle along there.


Edited by scottystitch, 10 September 2015 - 12:47 .


#14 Jamie

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 16:18

Interesting, I don't think I have seen a photo of any of these NBLs on the G&SW - I was going to question inclusion of the line to Ayr, but I dimly recall mention of them being tried on Ayrshire mineral work.  

 

My library's not bad as regards the sou'west - but coverage gets sketchy after the end of steam.



#15 Scottish Modeller

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 17:06

Hi guys,

 

I'm glad that you are taking on the production of these two milestone locos - yet another gap filled!

 

Now - it's down to price, employment, money and my wallet is already screaming as it has worked out what I would - ideally like to have.

 

Antway - will keep an eye on progress and hope that the funds come available at the right time(s).

 

Thanks



#16 Suffolk Rob

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 18:06

Hi Ben

 

Firstly fantastic, this is the one I was waiting for

 

I am however a bit confused as to how this works with crowdfunding of 2 classes in one process. I assume that when ordering we will specify which class but, more so than the pendalino and tanks there may be a large number of people wishing to change their order as the deadline approaches.

 

to explain what I mean, my current thinking is to go for 2 or 3 29s because that fits my modelling era best. However  I strongly suspect the 21 will be the more popular with the wider geography and sitting squarely in the transition era so, if neither class was at 1200 orders close to your deadline I would want to change my order in favour of 1 or 2 21s (I'd rather a 21 than neither). Will your ordering system allow for this.

 

One other question, will the 21 tooling allow for the tablet catcher recess.

 

Hopefully I'm not complicating things, I really want this one to succeed

 

Rob



#17 Ben A

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 18:54

Hi Ben

 

Firstly fantastic, this is the one I was waiting for

 

I am however a bit confused as to how this works with crowdfunding of 2 classes in one process. I assume that when ordering we will specify which class but, more so than the pendalino and tanks there may be a large number of people wishing to change their order as the deadline approaches.

 

to explain what I mean, my current thinking is to go for 2 or 3 29s because that fits my modelling era best. However  I strongly suspect the 21 will be the more popular with the wider geography and sitting squarely in the transition era so, if neither class was at 1200 orders close to your deadline I would want to change my order in favour of 1 or 2 21s (I'd rather a 21 than neither). Will your ordering system allow for this.

 

One other question, will the 21 tooling allow for the tablet catcher recess.

 

Hopefully I'm not complicating things, I really want this one to succeed

 

Rob

 

Hi Rob,

 

The maths is this:  We need to get to 1200 to tool one bodyshell.  If we reach that, then a further 900 for the other type will see that produced too.  It's hard to know which will be more popular - the 21s were used geographically more widely, whereas the 29s were more successful in service and had more liveries.

 

Unlike the TEA tankers, I can't see a £100+ locomotive reaching 1000 declarations in a matter of days so as we progress it may become clearer which is heading toward the target more rapidly.  I would be inclined to pledge for everything you want to start with, then as we approach the target and it become clearer which way things are going  you may wish to remove pledges from the unsuccessful one.  Or keep them to help the other model over the line so you can ebay it later.  

 

Remember, we will only start taking money once the target has been passed, so there is plenty of time to change your mind.

 

And yes, you're right; there may well be a large number of people changing their minds as the deadline approaches, but as our declaration system is web based it will update pretty much in real time.  TBH none of us really knows exactly how this will pan out - it will be interesting to see.

 

cheers

Ben A.



#18 Suffolk Rob

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 19:17

Thanks Ben, that all makes sense to me. You're right it will be interesting.

 

A couple of other thoughts

 

Your map shows operation between Ipswich & Norwich for the 21 but I'm pretty sure they also operated on the East Suffolk line up to the coast to Lowestoft. I'd advise verifying this before adding to your map though although it would open up the possibility of small East Anglian layouts as well as Scottish ones as a selling point .

 

Also your OP mentions how they fit well with the 17, 24 & 25, might also be worth mentioning the Dapol 26, 27 and the farish 20 and working alongside some of these classes in London  as well as Scotland in the case of the 21

 

Regards

Rob


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#19 Roy L S

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 19:53

Brilliant choice!

 

Just one question, I assume the RevolutioN website will be updated to allow us to express our interest but when will that be?

 

Roy


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#20 Kylestrome

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 20:01

If anyone else spots any mistakes, or can add other routes these locos were used on, please let us know!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

You've also missed off the Mallaig extension.


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#21 red death

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 20:52

 

Just one question, I assume the RevolutioN website will be updated to allow us to express our interest but when will that be?

 

Soon ie before TINGS - the news got out slightly earlier than anticipated (and work sent me to Belgium for the last 2 days!).

 

Cheers, Mike


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#22 Torn-on-the-platform

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 21:16

Hi Chaps,

 

Just wanted to say what a good idea it is to include the map in your announcement. I don't have too much interest in diesels but those from this period are useful to me, and I often struggle to locate where they should ideally be running.

 

Good luck with the project!


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#23 Ben A

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 22:42

Hi Chaps,
 
Just wanted to say what a good idea it is to include the map in your announcement. I don't have too much interest in diesels but those from this period are useful to me, and I often struggle to locate where they should ideally be running.
 
Good luck with the project!


Thanks - though it may be a little impractical for some models - anyone fancy drawing a Class 47 map??

And thatnks too to those who've offered corrections. I can certainly add the Lowestoft and Mallaig branches, though I don't think I'll have time now until after TINGS - and the Dumfries route to Carlisle that was mentioned too.

cheers

Ben A.

#24 red death

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 00:28

Hi folks

 

Class 21/29 expressions of interest page now available: http://www.revolutio...ns-of-interest/

 

Cheers, Mike



#25 Removed a/c_eddie reffin

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 09:12

Hi Sulzer27jd,
 
Thanks for spotting that - map redrawn now.
 
If anyone else spots any mistakes, or can add other routes these locos were used on, please let us know!
 
cheers
 
Ben A.


They worked the now-closed Crianlarich-Callander-Dunblane line too.

HTH

Eddie












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