Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T

[daltonparva]

Does anyone have a fixed(ish) price yet? Many websites are saying TBA still.... .

Hattons ad in Modeller says "pre-order for £111 (estimated).

[NHY 581]

Sounds about right really, albeit subject to change. Regardless of that, really looking forward to these arriving. I can wait........

 

 

 

Rob.

[GWR8700]

I don't know if anyone noticed but in the catalogue they listed some of this model's features like firebox flicker, the return of sprung buffers (Yes!) and a pre fitted speaker. So maybe they are all sound versions, not too sure. Sounds promising!

Edited January 24, 2018 by GWR8700

[PenrithBeacon]

I don't know if anyone noticed but in the catalogue they listed some of this model's features like firebox flicker, the return of sprung buffers (Yes!) and a pre fitted speaker. So maybe they are all sound versions, not too sure. Sounds promising!

Or not. As a DC railway modeller I don't want that sort of stuff, all it does is increase the price.

[No Decorum]

Or not. As a DC railway modeller I don't want that sort of stuff, all it does is increase the price.

It’s an awkward one. I welcome it. No soldering, no messing with wires. Just plug in a sound decoder. On the other hand, as you say, it adds to the cost for features you don’t want. If the manufacturers do two versions, each becomes a little more expensive. I don’t think that I would like to be a manufacturer, trying to work out what the market wants.

[Downer]

Simple really - they’re running out of subjects that will sell in large quantities, so the accent has to be on selling, and charging for, increased quality. Hence the crane, this super-duper 1P, all the bells and whistles on the forthcoming Mark2F coaches.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Downer

[NHY 581]

Simple really - they’re running out of subjects that will sell in large quantities, so the accent has to be on selling, and charging for, increased quality. Hence the crane, this super-duper 1P, all the bells and whistles on the forthcoming Mark2F coaches.

I have to say, I think this will sell in large quantaties.

 

 

Rob.

[daltonparva]

I don't think "firebox flicker" necessarily means DCC fitted. Their diesel locos have lights which work on DC, and become switchable with a DCC chip.. I presume one light in a firebox will do the same.

Edited January 24, 2018 by daltonparva

[Dunsignalling]

Or not. As a DC railway modeller I don't want that sort of stuff, all it does is increase the price.

And reduce the space available for adhesive weight, a vital issue on a small loco.

[farren]

I am sure one model has opening smokebox door along with opening firebox door with fire flicker which is just overkill and just adding cost for very little use under normal running. Hopefully it's just a one off and not a sign of the norm to come

Edited January 24, 2018 by farren

[GWR8700]

I don't think "firebox flicker" necessarily means DCC fitted. Their diesel locos have lights which work on DC, and become switchable with a DCC chip.. I presume one light in a firebox will do the same.

True, but it also says pre-fitted sound speaker which would imply dcc onboard.

[farren]

I read it as meaning just the speaker on board and no chip. Obviously it would be DCC ready. But I don't like the idea that everyone has to pay the extra money for something many won't want or use.

[GWR8700]

I know this is stated as the 1532 class but isn't the BR version a member of the later 2228 class? I'm just going off Wikipedia so it's probably not particularly accurate

Edited January 24, 2018 by GWR8700

[daltonparva]

I read it as meaning just the speaker on board and no chip. Obviously it would be DCC ready. But I don't like the idea that everyone has to pay the extra money for something many won't want or use.

 

Adding a speaker at point of manufacture probably only adds pennies to the cost. The Webb tank had wiring and provision for only one type/size of speaker, so it's logical to go one step further at small cost and add the correct speaker, thereby eliminating possible problems caused by aftermarket fitting attempts.

[brossard]

I tend to agree with daltonparva here.  Getting the speaker into a loco, even 7mm models, can be fraught.  So, yes, doing this at the factory only adds pennies but save the modeller grief if he/she wants to add sound.  Hopefully it will be wired to the board making sound plug and play.  In another thread by Little Loco Company, that manufacturer has said exactly the same thing about their upcoming model.  It will be wired for sound AND smoke.

 

There one or twoo 4mm models years ago that had smokebox glow (Hornby tender drive 8F as I recall) but it never seemed to catch on.  Now, with sound, the glow can be synched with "fireman shovelling" because the door is only open then.

 

John

[Free At Last]

Quotedoing this at the factory only adds pennies

 

Was it Graham Hubbard who said adding sprung buffers at the factory ends up costing £15 extra on the retail price by the time everyone along the chain adds their margin.

[Flying Pig]

This argument cropped up on the Farish 40 thread as these models are also fitted with speakers as standard. However, only one model actually has DCC onboard (with sound) and it is clearly advertised as such and sold at a commensurately higher price. The other 40s are £5-10 pounds more expensive than comparable models such as recent 37s and 55s on the retail sites I've looked at, though it isn't possible to say how much of this is due to the speaker.

 

In the 2018 Farish announcements, Bachmann advise that they are updating the chassis of a number of recent models to also have speakers as standard, so it looks like company policy in N gauge at least. It makes sense from their point of view to rationalise the range.

[Wellyboots]

I know this is stated as the 1532 class but isn't the BR version a member of the later 2228 class? I'm just going off Wikipedia so it's probably not particularly accurate

 

According to Midland Engines No.1 58072 was originally MR 2226 which was a Class 1833 engine, the first of the Class 2228 in BR service was 58073 which was originally MR 2229.

[Compound2632]

I know this is stated as the 1532 class but isn't the BR version a member of the later 2228 class? I'm just going off Wikipedia so it's probably not particularly accurate

 

31-740 No. 1273 (post-1907 number, originally No. 1539) was a member of the 1532 class, one of the first twenty built at Derby to O/N 289 in 1881/2. Not built as a condensing engine. Not to be confused with pre-1907 No. 1273, a member of the 1252 class of 1875/6, which had 3" larger diameter driving wheels. Bachmann's photo shows the engine in a transitional condition as running about 1909 (according to Summerson), with a flat Deeley smokebox door but still the original Johnson smokebox and chimney. Is this the condition Bachmann's model will represent?

 

31-741 No. 1303 (pre-1907 No. 1649) was likewise a member of the 1532 class, one of the batch of twenty built at Derby to O/N 460 in 1883/4, and also not built as a condensing engine.

 

31-742 No. 58072 (Pre-1907 No. 2226; post-1907 and LMS No. 1379) was indeed a member of the 1823 class, one of ten condensing engines built by Neilsons in 1893. 

 

The 1823 and 1833 classes were externally identical to the 1532 class, the difference being larger cylinders and higher boiler pressure. The 2228 class (1907 and LMS Nos. 1381 upwards, BR survivors 58073 upwards) had longer bunkers and deeper tanks.

 

Refs.

 

R.J. Essery & D. Jenkinson, An Illustrated Review of Midland Locomotives, Vol. 3 (Wild Swan Publications, 1988).

F. James, D. Hunt & R. Essery, Midland Engines No. 1: '1833'and '2228' Class Bogie Passenger Tanks (Wild Swan Publications, 1999).

S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives, Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002).

 

EDIT: The numbering details in the Wikipedia entries for the Johnson 0-4-4T classes appear to be correct.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Compound2632

[NHY 581]

I will certainly have a home for more than one of these. They are essential for a Midland based layout, or as in my case, a Somerset and Dorset based layout.

 

In addition the providing of pre grouping liveries is very appealing.

 

 

I really do think that Bachmann are onto a winner and the 1P fills a gap in the stable of Midland locomotives already offered by them.

 

 

Rob

[GWR8700]

31-740 No. 1273 (post-1907 number, originally No. 1539) was a member of the 1532 class, one of the first twenty built at Derby to O/N 289 in 1881/2. Not built as a condensing engine. Not to be confused with pre-1907 No. 1273, a member of the 1252 class of 1875/6, which had 3" larger diameter driving wheels. Bachmann's photo shows the engine in a transitional condition as running about 1909 (according to Summerson), with a flat Deeley smokebox door but still the original Johnson smokebox and chimney. Is this the condition Bachmann's model will represent?

 

31-741 No. 1303 (pre-1907 No. 1649) was likewise a member of the 1532 class, one of the batch of twenty built at Derby to O/N 460 in 1883/4, and also not built as a condensing engine.

 

31-742 No. 58072 (Pre-1907 No. 2226; post-1907 and LMS No. 1379) was indeed a member of the 1823 class, one of ten condensing engines built by Neilsons in 1893. 

 

The 1823 and 1833 classes were externally identical to the 1532 class, the difference being larger cylinders and higher boiler pressure. The 2228 class (1907 and LMS Nos. 1381 upwards, BR survivors 58073 upwards) had longer bunkers and deeper tanks.

 

Refs.

 

R.J. Essery & D. Jenkinson, An Illustrated Review of Midland Locomotives, Vol. 3 (Wild Swan Publications, 1988).

F. James, D. Hunt & R. Essery, Midland Engines No. 1: '1833'and '2228' Class Bogie Passenger Tanks (Wild Swan Publications, 1999).

S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives, Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002).

 

EDIT: The numbering details in the Wikipedia entries for the Johnson 0-4-4T classes appear to be correct.

Thanks for that, I must have just been confused with the numbers.

 

Probably the model I am most excited for at the moment!

Edited January 24, 2018 by GWR8700

[Compound2632]

Apropos of the S&DJR, apart from the single 1532 class 0-4-4T transferred to the joint line in the twenties and subsequently re-assimilated into the class, resuming its old number (and of which Bachmann are aware), the other blue 0-4-4Ts - the nine built by Avonside in 1877 and the four by the Vulcan Foundry in 1883 - are bit of a mystery to me. I don't have much on them but I gather they differed from the contemporary Midland engines quite significantly, even possibly having shorter coupled wheelbase than 8'0". Is this so? Johnson's 4-4-0s for the S&DJR are also charmingly petite and unlike any of his Midland engines and I'm starting to suspect that even the Neilson and Vulcan Foundry "Scottie" 0-6-0s were smaller than standard, though not the later Derby-built and Neilson "Bulldogs". This is in contrast to the engines he supplied for the M&GN which were identical to contemporary Midland classes. Curious.

[NHY 581]

Bachmann offering is only good for the example transferred in the twenties to replace a life expired example. No good for the orginal S&D example for a number of reasons.

 

It appeared in Midland Red livery but lettered/numbered as S&DJR No 54.....Either way, if Bachmann produce one in Prussian blue I for one will have one....or two....

 

 

 

Rob

[MarkC]

Quite a number were fitted for Pull Push I think.  No one does any Pl Ph LMS coaches (why oh why?   ) but the new Hornby PIII Non Corridors can be converted.  The old Airfix/Dapol coaches wouldn't be correct for this.

 

John

51L/Wizard did/do? D-502 and D-526 coach kits, complete with push-pull ends

[Compound2632]

The Ratio Midland suburbans are also good candidates for the later period, with a number being converted in the early 1930s and surviving until the very early 50s, or mid 50s if you're not too particular about using 8'0" wide vehicles with 10' wheelbase bogies to represent 8'6" wide ones with 8' bogies. Coachman has at one time or another posted photos of examples of such conversions he's built.

 

The Wizard kits mentioned are for earlier 43' and 45' arc-roofed carriages converted in 1907, so contemporary with Bachmann's model of No. 1273.