Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T

[John-Miles]

With care you can do a Johnson smokebox door on a mini drill. I did it many years ago. The chimney is a bit more of a challenge and you really do need a lathe.

[Compound2632]

Somehow I feel a 3D-printed master for a lost-wax brass casting might be the de-lux way forward on the chimney. One needs to study Midland Engines No. 1 rather carefully and in conjunction with the relevant volume of Summerson to be sure of identifying the right Johnson chimney. I'm not doing that now, just noting that at a cursory glance it seems that condensing engines with boiler pitched at 6'11.25" abouve rail level had 3'1" chimneys whilst non-condensing engines had 3'7" chimneys, though the drawings are not entirely consistent. This is for the 1833 Class; I infer but have not checked that the same is true for the 1532 Class that Bachmann are modelling - although the video Andy York posted over a year ago showed that Bachmann had Midland Engines No.1 as a key reference. That work also contains drawings for the later 2228 Class engines, which had boilers at 7'3" pitch and consequently shorter chimneys - 2'10" on the condensing engines.

 

One of the authors of the Midland Engines series posts on here; I defer to him in all and any matters relating to Midland locomotives. Not worthy to undo the shackle of his screw coupling etc...

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, John-Miles said:

With care you can do a Johnson smokebox door on a mini drill. I did it many years ago. The chimney is a bit more of a challenge and you really do need a lathe.

 

I don't have very much RTR. Most of my stuff is pre-grouping GCR and is either kit or scratchbuilt. So making a smokebox door or a chimney isn't a problem.

 

It is just that the Midland is very much a secondary interest and not something I would want to spend too much time on, especially on the livery.

 

So buying a later version and backdating it would probably be just as much work as finishing my half built Craftsman kit

 

The only time I will be buying RTR is if exactly what I want appears in he livery and condition I would like.

 

If not, I would rather build the whole thing for myself.

 

I only mentioned i because I had read somewhere the a MR period version was going to be produced by Bachmann.

Edited April 24, 2019 by t-b-g

[GWR8700]

I’m pretty sure they have tooled for the Johnson chimney as one of the EPs has one.

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, GWR8700 said:

I’m pretty sure they have tooled for the Johnson chimney as one of the EPs has one.

 

And since that's a non-condensing engine, presumably 3'7" - that's what it looked like, anyway.

[GWR8700]

Deleted - double post

Edited April 25, 2019 by GWR8700

[Compound2632]

Looking back at the photos posted on 25 March, the Midland-condition model clearly has a taller chimney than the others. I think it's intended to be a Johnson 3'7" chimney per the photo of No. 1273 used in their publicity but the shape isn't quite there yet - it's too straight-sided. 

[John-Miles]

IIRC the chimney height varied over the years, generally getting shorter with age, rather like us humans.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, John-Miles said:

IIRC the chimney height varied over the years, generally getting shorter with age, rather like us humans.

 

Indeed, but the question is: what was it in, if not the first bloom of youth, at least early middle age - i.e. c. 1908 per Bachmann.

[GWR8700]

Didn’t the photo of Midland condition loco have a Deeley chimney and the EP show it with a Johnson chimney?

[Compound2632]

The photo of No. 1273 Bachmann have used in their publicity, shows the engine with the first type of Deeley smoxebox door - flat rather than convex - and a Johnson chimney. The photo was taken at Buxton about 1909 (according to the caption Stephen Summerson gives it, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 3 p. 90). The period 1905-1910 was one of rapid transition in the appearance of Midland engines, especially around the front end, so there are many possible combinations at this date, but this is one for which there is photographic evidence!

[Pinehill]

What is the usual or average time frame between the undecorated samples appearing & release of the models?

[John-Miles]

The question of chimney height comes into the ream of how long is a piece of string. Summerson says the "standard"height was 3' 4" but he mentions this in connection with a 1823 class loco so whether it applies to the others is a moot point. The 1252 class is stated as having 3' 7" chimneys (slightly higher on condensing engines). The engines which had to comply with the Metropolitan loading gauge had 3' 1" chimneys. There are drawings of 1833 engines in the James, Hunt, Essery book which give 3' 7" in Johnson form. They also have a drawing by Fred James of a 1833 in Belpaire form which isn't well dimensioned but the chimney scales at 3' 1.5". This still leaves the mystery of what happened in between and in particular what about the 1532 class. Having looked at the Bachman images, I don't think the chimney on the Midland era loco is a very convincing representation of a Johnson chimney. The flair at the base looks to be incorrect.

[Compound2632]

I find Summerson can be quite hard going to get at the information one wants because he treats what I think of as separate classes in one lump. I find I need to have Jenkinson & Essery open at their relevant summary table when reading Summerson. In the case of the 1532 / 1823 / 1833 Classes this isn't so bad as they differed principally in such invisible features as cylinder dimensions and boiler pressure, when built.

 

In this case I think the 1252 Class is no guide as with their 3" large driving wheel diameter, they had boilers pitched 1.25" higher than the 1532 / 1823 / 1833 Classes. Also, none of the 1252 Class were condenser-fitted. Indeed Summerson's allocation table shows that they lived most of their lives in the Midlands and the North. 

 

Now I've found the relevant bit of Summerson, p. 103. This does state with moderate clarity that non-condensing engines of the 1532 Class (in which he includes the 1823 / 1833 Classes) had 3'7" chimneys when built, while condensing engines had 3'1" chimneys. So as far as Johnson chimneys for the Bachmann model go, that's all we need concern ourselves with - just the shape to get right!

 

Summerson then states the the later parallel chimneys - colloquially Deeley chimneys - were all 3'0" tall.

 

I'm slightly peeved to discover from this re-reading of Summerson that at my favourite modelling date of c. 1902, Saltley was chiefly home to members of the larger-wheeled 1252 Class. There are a handful of 1532 Class engines, mostly at Bournville, but my attention is homing in on No. 1734 (1907 No. 1328) which was at Walsall at that date...

[Denbridge]

7 hours ago, Pinehill said:

What is the usual or average time frame between the undecorated samples appearing & release of the models?

Anywhere up to 5 years or more.

['CHARD]

8 hours ago, Pinehill said:

What is the usual or average time frame between the undecorated samples appearing & release of the models?

 

1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

Anywhere up to 5 years or more.

 

However, in the real world, more like 15 - 18 months depending on any rework/ modifications that are agreed to the EP, and production 'slots' permitting.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

Anywhere up to 5 years or more.

Thats fast, the D600’s took 11 years, (earliest reference i found is 15th March 2008) way longer than there real things were in service.

 

When the D600 was announced, the real Class 68 hadnt been designed (DRS ordered Jan 5th 2012), yet when the OO gauge D600’s arrived the real fleet of class 68’s had been ordered, delivered, and the real class 88 ordered / delivered too, inservice and with 2 iterations of a OO gauge model already released.

 

The mantle is now passed to the class 29, announced Nov 20th 2010, and on the final straight to delivery.

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by adb968008

[John-Miles]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Thats fast, the D600’s took 11 years, (earliest reference i found is 15th March 2008) way longer than there real things were in service.

 

When the D600 was announced, the real Class 68 hadnt been designed (DRS ordered Jan 5th 2012), yet when the OO gauge D600’s arrived the real fleet of class 68’s had been ordered, delivered, and the real class 88 ordered / delivered too, inservice and with 2 iterations of a OO gauge model already released.

 

The mantle is now passed to the class 29, announced Nov 20th 2010, and on the final straight to delivery.

 

Diesels in a thread about Midland Locos. Whatever next!!

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, John-Miles said:

Diesels in a thread about Midland Locos. Whatever next!!

 

This?

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

One sometimes comes across 3Fs and 2Ps (at least the 483 Class) described as "Johnson" locomotives, when it's pretty much not more than wheels and in some cases frames in common with the original engines. On that basis, this is S.W. Johnson's prototype diesel shunter. 

 

In fact Johnson was perfectly aware that electric traction was the direction things were going in.

[Steamport Southport]

I possibly should point out to anyone who doesn't know, it's a MR 1F 0-6-0T converted to a diesel shunter.

 

Pity it didn't survive as it was the great granddaddy of all the 08s, 09s, etc.

 

Judith Edge make a kit if you want one. I know I do.

 

 

Jason

[Allegheny1600]

21 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

This?

 

 

 

 

Jason

My dear friend, Roy who had lived most of his life in Long Eaton, claimed to have seen this running as a small boy in the mid to late 1930s, I am quite sure that he only ever told the truth but he said it was one reason he had a great fondness for "08's".

He was certainly quite enthusiastic about it anyway and a dedicated 'Midland' man.

Oh, for today's recording technology back then!

John.

 

PS If Bachmann produces a model of the 1P that looks the part and runs well, I will want one.

[SDJR7F88]

A look at some of the latest models and prototypes from Bachmann Europe, filmed on their Roadshow Stand at the Bristol Model Railway Exhibition 2019. Models featured, included the all new GWR 94XX Pannier Tank )0-6-0PT, MR 1532 1P 0-4-4T, NER E1 / J72 Class 0-6-0T and Ransomes & Rapier 45 Ton Breakdown Crane, plus much more, as well as many other exciting developments cross the range.

Hope you enjoy!

https://youtu.be/8p5rRhmpUZs

[SDJR7F88]

A  few stills I managed to get of the 1P, while filming the above video.

Hope they are of interest!

 

[SDJR7F88]

A few more pictures following on from yesterdays post

Edited May 9, 2019 by SDJR7F88