MRJ 254 Post-Publication Thread.

[Poggy1165]

Semley is an amazing model. It's the sort of layout that deserves a book rather than an article. I suspect such a creation (which is really the peak of the hobby) can only be achieved by a serious mixture of talent, skill and single-mindedness applied over a long period. Frankly, there is no shame in admitting that such an achievement is beyond most of us. But it's great that it's not beyond everybody! It shows what can be done.

[Andrew Young]

Semley is rather nice, though if I was being picky when comparing the model to the prototype photo, it's all a little too clean.... compare the ballast in the two photographs, the ballast in the prototype photo has much more varied tones than in the model.

 

Technically, a fantastic piece of modelling, but lacking in some atmosphere for me. Some Scale Seven layouts suffer from this clinical approach too.

 

Just my thoughts.

Andrew

[chris p bacon]

Semley is rather nice, though if I was being picky when comparing the model to the prototype photo, it's all a little too clean.... compare the ballast in the two photographs, the ballast in the prototype photo has much more varied tones than in the model.

 

Technically, a fantastic piece of modelling, but lacking in some atmosphere for me. Some Scale Seven layouts suffer from this clinical approach too.

 

Just my thoughts.

Andrew

I'd disagree with that, As I'm researching photo's from the late 1800's to early 1900's for my layout the general state and colour of the ballast is extremely uniform and manicured.  

 

Semley is a superb model and as yet unfinished, so to compare one photograph to the model and say it is a little too clean and then extrapolate that across P4 is a bit unfair to say the least. I say that as a devout OO modeller too. 

[RichardS]

Another excellent issue, with some good and informative articles on 4mm RTR wagon improvements, amongst others.

 

I looked at the photos of Semley and wept.

 

The comparison photo of the 'then' prototype and the 'now' model was so precisely matched and I don't think I've ever seen a prototype view reproduced with such precision and exactness in model form.

 

I am in awe, no, more than just 'in awe', of the commitment and self-discipline required to produce models and model engineering to that consistently high standard over a period of time, on a layout of that size, with no dilution of quality and no lessening in the consistency of the excellence that results.

 

I couldn't do it. I know that I haven't got it in me. Not because I wouldn't want a layout of that standard, not because I don't enjoy the modelling and not because I don't want to improve my own standards. No, I think it takes a certain strength of character and self-discipline and single-mindedness, which frankly I have never possessed. And no, I don't know Martin Finney at all, never even spoken to the gentleman concerned.

 

Amazing stuff.

 

 

 

 

Edited for typos.

 

I concur with all this. But may I add how clever the artwork for the first picture was. As one turned the page the vista into the station hit me smack between the eyes. How often is the picture on the left and the text the right? The reversal here was masterful to create maximum impact. 

[Grovenor]

and then extrapolate that across P4

I see no mention of extrapolating it across P4 in Andrew's post, the only mention of any other layouts is "some S7 layouts".

Regards

[Captain Kernow]

I concur with all this. But may I add how clever the artwork for the first picture was. As one turned the page the vista into the station hit me smack between the eyes. How often is the picture on the left and the text the right? The reversal here was masterful to create maximum impact.

 

Do you mean the double page spread?

[Andrew Young]

I'd disagree with that, As I'm researching photo's from the late 1800's to early 1900's for my layout the general state and colour of the ballast is extremely uniform and manicured.

 

Semley is a superb model and as yet unfinished, so to compare one photograph to the model and say it is a little too clean and then extrapolate that across P4 is a bit unfair to say the least. I say that as a devout OO modeller too.

Chris,

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

 

Was very careful in my post not to enter the P4/OO debate.... its dangerous territory! Whilst some P4/Scale Seven modellers also convey a sense of atmosphere and lived in 'feel' to a model, others fail in this regard and fail to put even the lightest of weathering which lets down otherwise superb models. Maybe it's a preoccupation with gauge and wheel standards, who knows?!! None of this is new, Mr Harvey wrote far more eloquently about it in MRJ 63.

 

As Semley isn't finished (though when is sclauout truly finished?) then maybe it would've been better to wait until it was before lavishing such a feature length article on it. Maybe one day, a further article may appear which will show that some weathering has taken place.

 

Seeing as the prototype photo was published alongside one of the same scene on the model in order to provide comparison, to say that making such a comparison is unfair is nonsense!

 

Seller is an astoundingly good piece of modeling, just a bit too clinical for my taste.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited April 9, 2017 by Andrew Young

[RichardS]

Do you mean the double page spread?

Yes, pages 82 and 83. 

[chris p bacon]

I see no mention of extrapolating it across P4 in Andrew's post, the only mention of any other layouts is "some S7 layouts".

Regards

True, the wrong choice of word.

 

I was curious as to why "some S7 layouts" and not  "Some layouts"  for example, last editions Little Bytham which has some superb looking trackwork, but is somewhat bland at present with little weathering of ballast, which it certainly was for the time period modelled.

Edited April 10, 2017 by chris p bacon

[Bernard Lamb]

Semley is rather nice, though if I was being picky when comparing the model to the prototype photo, it's all a little too clean.... compare the ballast in the two photographs, the ballast in the prototype photo has much more varied tones than in the model.

 

Technically, a fantastic piece of modelling, but lacking in some atmosphere for me. Some Scale Seven layouts suffer from this clinical approach too.

 

Just my thoughts.

Andrew

I think you would have received a better reception if you had written "It all appears to be a little too clean".

Allowing for a slight difference in the camera angle and the difference between modern colour digital rendering and the different film speed and a host of other things it is quite clear what Martin is trying to achieve. He has also chosen an actual date and as pointed out in the text has changed that date for operational reasons. Now the chances of a photograph being available of a sufficiently high quality on either of the dates must be rather slim. he presumable has access to many other records of the period in order to produce such detail. I think you are being exceptionally picky about what I consider to be the best layout that I have seen for a long while. To an extent LB is a model landscape in which representative trains can run. Semley is a snap shot of a moment in time. A time from which records accurate in all detail can not possibly exist. You are welcome to your atmosphere. I prefer this.

Bernard

[Torper]

Whilst some P4/Scale Seven modellers also convey a sense of atmosphere and lived in 'feel' to a model, others fail in this regard and fail to put even the lightest of weathering which lets down otherwise superb models.

 

I'd agree with that sentence if you'd left out the phrase "P4/Scale Seven".  Surely what you are saying applies to models in all gauges and scales?

 

DT

[Penlan]

'Looks a little clean' (or words to that effect) - well certainly before WW1, the lengthsmen took a pride in their work,

the railway companies had awards for the best kept lengths, stations etc.,  

Looking through pre. WW1 photographs of the general railway scene,

away from the conurbations and industry, it looked good and tidy - E. & O.E.   

Of course there are things on the layout 'you' or I might do differently on our own layout(s),

but that's the nature of this hobby.
The layout has points of inspiration, but how we use that inspiration towards our own needs, that's our own affair.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Penlan

[Porcy Mane]

Not just before WW1. Many a plate layer received awards for their prize length even post Beeching. Somewhere I have a BR N.E. Region magazine listing PW teams prize length awards for 1961.

 

A couple of links to prize length pics.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=36347

 

http://search.digido.org.uk/?id=llgc-id%3A1456348&query=*&query_type=full_text&page=3&qf=subject_lctgm_topic%3ARailroads&img_id=1

 

P

P.s. This being the serious MRJ thread and for the avoidance of any doubt, all mentions of prize lengths referred to in my reply above was posted in all seriousness and not accompanied by adolescent schoolboy sniggering.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Zero Gravitas]

P.s. This being the serious MRJ thread and for the avoidance of any doubt, all mentions of prize lengths referred to in my reply above was posted in all seriousness was not accompanied by adolescent schoolboy sniggering.

Sorry - too late... I'm just off to admonish myself severely for not being serious enough (no sniggering at that either).

 

Right, back to the seriousness, please. Apart from Semley, I particularly liked the features on the upgrading of RTR wagons, to the extent that I'm about to order a couple of Bachmann tank wagons... It's really inspirational stuff.

[BlackRat]

Interestingly, it just goes to show exactly how RTR has progressed over the last 15 years or so.

 

As for Semley, I'm sure in the fullness of time those wagons etc may well be weathered, after all, the layout is substantially complete.......so there's plenty of time on Mr Finneys hands

 

It is interesting to see though, just how some of the buildings have been ever so slightly weathered, subtlety being the key word. After all, in the epoch modeled, those building etc were all fairly new.....

 

An interesting comparison made by himself re Bytham etc, nothing at all contentious, just that, a comparison of two ways to achieve the end result.....an operational layout that is stunning to look at.

 

I'm fortunate in having a very good friend assisting with the O gauge project. In fact, with the cameo contest I may well get round to actually doing something about it! 

[corneliuslundie]

I think the business of how much to weather buildings and track on Edwardian layouts is a very difficult one. First, as stated above, we cannot really rely on photographs because of vagaries of processing and a lack of available photos to refer to. Secondly, because we are usually comparing monochrome and colour representations of the scene. And thirdly,the infrastructure had not had time to weather and deteriorate very much - typically 50 years rather than 150. Add to this differing views over the years as to what was acceptable in terms of appearance and one really cannot be dogmatic about anything except that one cannot be dogmatic. And of course materials used for ballast have changed and a newly reballasted line will be very different in appearance from one which is due for reballasting.

I love the Semley photos though I would have liked a few more words about how it was done - and it is a brave editor to allocate so many pages to one article.

Jonathan

[NHY 581]

It matters not how wide the rails are apart. What is important is the quality of the model from which we can all take inspiration.

 

Semley is splendid. A lack of weathering matters not a jot, and I do like my weathering. However for the period in which Semley is set the lack of weathering seems appropriate and harks back to an age when there was a pride in the railway companies at all levels of the workforce.

 

 

We are all entitled to our views, our likes and dislikes which on occasion individuals take far too seriously.

 

We should respect each others perspective.

 

Rob

[Penlan]

On page 90, top photo and text, where it states the wicker baskets are from Bachmann, should it be Hornby (or Skaledale)?

 

I thought they looked nice and so I tried to find some Bachmann ones at Trainwest....

Looks like a visit to Kernow Models shop is due.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Penlan

[NHY 581]

Having now had the chance to sit quiet and enjoy this issue, I must say, for me at least, it one of the best as of late.

 

Semley is just.......well....seminal really. It is just superb and I for one am looking forward to further articles featuring it.

The reference within the article to Little Bytham is not in any way controversial and anyone reading into it should think again.

 

I did enjoy the article on the Queen Mary brake is quite timely as I am thinking of tinkering with mine.

 

This is one issue which will be read again and again.

 

 

Rob.

[corneliuslundie]

I have now got around to reading the two articles on loco construction. They made me wonder whether I should be going back to RM - stopped in 1984! Wonderful workmanship but completely beyond my skill level - and I don't think I could get there even if I had another 70 years. My only question about the coupling rods is whether all the work can actually be seen other than in a much magnified photo. But then, we are all different. I doubt if the author would want to spend an equal amount of time creating winter hedges or 30 hours creating an oak tree (Gordon Gravett's estimate). Each to his own. Fascinating reading anyway. A great issue. 

Jonathan

[Barry Ten]

As others have said, Semley really is magnificent. I could sit and drink in the outstanding modelling shown in those photos for hours on end. What a superb, inspiring creation.

[Captain Kernow]

What a superb, inspiring creation.

Whilst Mr Finney may well have made his wishes for the eventual future of his layout known, one wonders whether it might end up forming the star exhibit at a future local railway museum in the area.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[Loconuts]

Whilst Mr Finney may well have made his wishes for the eventual future of his layout known, one wonders whether it might end up forming the star exhibit at a future local railway museum in the area.

 

Swanage Railway?

[Horsetan]

...The reference within the article to Little Bytham is not in any way controversial and anyone reading into it should think again. ....

It wasn't meant to be controversial, but it was a noticeable contrast to the disingenuous nonsense written at the end of the Little Bytham article in 252.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Martin Finney's layout sounds amazing think I'll buy a copy.

It is. And I just have.

 

Fortunately, the threads about the Cameo Layout Comp highlighted the fact that Semley appears in the latest MRJ. I don't normally bother with MRJ as the contents are a bit too refined for me. But I have been aware of this layout for some time now and very glad to finally see it. A superb model of our local station (or it would be if it had not closed).