Gladiator 7mm Stanier Duchess

[Dave Holt]

Hi Peter.

The more photos of DoS we see, the more and more detailed changes from BR condition become apparent - many related to the conversion to air brakes (extra pipes on both sides and in the cab, extra gauges and drivers pedestal in cab, etc.). Also noticed are odd bulges in the middle sand filler pipe plates and wheel flange lubricator blocks.

On balance, I would definitely base the model on CoB rather than DoS, where they differ.

The larger pipe on the LH side running plate on CoB, you mentioned earlier, which obscures the lubricator heating pipes, is the conduit for the AWS system, so would only appear if you're modelling after that was fitted (late '50's or 1960).

Dave.

[Horsetan]

.....On balance, I would definitely base the model on CoB rather than DoS, where they differ.....

 

Unless you are specifically replicating 46233 as it is today.

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Brakes.  How do you know these things!!!

I found the rods to close to the wheels, so I put a washer between the top hat bearing and the rod. After I finished the brakes the rods just cleared the hanger brackets. Also the brake shoes seemed to me to be about right on the wheels. Have I missed something?

That rocker was a bit tricky, two thin washers on top then I soldered brass tube on and under the rocker.

Taken it apart so will have to reassemble to check clearance to bogie.

 

Your build is looking very very good. I'm working on the oil boxes at the moment.

 

 

Pete

 

 

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Hi Dave,

I agree with you. DoS has had a lot  of  mods made  in preservation for  mainline running in the  21st century, whereas CoB represents BR service condition (albeit at the  end). There are of  course differences in the  tender and  front end of  the  loco, due  to CoB being a  de-streamlined engine, that need to be  taken into account.

 

David,

Thanks for  the  offer of  replacement castings. I was sure  you  would  replace them if  I asked, but  I thought  why bother  when they are mostly obscured by the  cylinders. Again your  commitment to customer service is obvious, as mentioned earlier by Petebe

 

Pete,

Looking at  your  brake gear, the alignment to the  wheel treads looks good, despite using the  cross beams as they are.  However, the  extra length of  the  hanger bracket is  obvious, but  in line  with the  length of  0.9mm rod on which the  brakes are hung. The instructions suggest allowing 7mm protruding from the  frames, but  that overhung the  outer edge of  the  treads, so I cut  it  back. This  is  probably why I needed to cut back the  cross beams.

 

Here's a brake  hanger on CoB which does not  protrude beyond the  tread. If you  look at your pics of  DoS you  will also notice that Duchess has an additional fitting on top of  the hanger bracket (to measure tread wear????), which I assume  is  a  preservation fitting.

 

You mention adding a washer to the  top hat bearing.  Was that to move  the  coupling rods out to clear the  overhanging bracket?  Nice work on the  rocker lever. I see it's fixed to the  frame so I'll had to consider how  to modify that as I want to be able  to de-mount the  cylinders, slide bars and  valve gear as a  unit. Another  bridge to cross later.

 

Horsetan,

If you  are modelling DoS as preserved,m then you also need to alter the  tender which has additions which are not  prototypical to BR service.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Holt]

 

If you  look at your pics of  DoS you  will also notice that Duchess has an additional fitting on top of  the hanger bracket (to measure tread wear????), which I assume  is  a  preservation fitting.

 

 

That's the wheel flange lubricator I mentioned. It's a spring loaded block of some sort of solid lubricant in a holder, set to bear on the root of the wheel flange. Definitely a preservation mod, also seen on several other preserved locos (the Hall at the GWSR, for instance).

Dave.

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

I added the washers between top hat bearings and rod because the rods fouled the wheel centres, It also helped clear the hanger brackets too.

 

My intention with the rockers so I too could remove them as a unit is to solder the washers to the top making it one piece. Then solder a nut under the chassis bracket so the screw can be removed from above. 

The rocker will only locate the valve spindles on the underside. The instructions suggests soldering a 14BA nut to the underside of the rocker so it can easily be accessed.

However looking at my pics it would seem the rocker straddles the valve spindle. So a cheat might be possible by putting a piece above the valve spindle, bending right angle behind valve spindle and solder to top of rocker.

It would make it out of alignment with the top of the chassis bracket though.

Overall I think the chassis bracket is too low. By raising the bracket, and a spacer between the two halves of the rocker .................A little bit more thought needed me thinks.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Pete

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

No doubt it will make sense once I start the valve gear. Didn't have much time this week but finished off the brake gear and amended one or two things. First up the front cross beam has been dispensed with and replaced with 0.9mm rod to improve the clearance for the rear bogie wheels. I broke the pull rod doing this and will have to repair it.

 

Here's the slider plates from the underside showing that they are fitted level with the bottom edge of the frames to avoid any possible contact with the sliders on the bogie.

 

I have also filed off the half etch on the bogie pivot hole to allow it to move sideways on the curves. I need to tidy up the filing on that front edge and may have to restrict the side movement later.

 

I have also reprofiled the front brake hangers and set them as close to the wheels as possible for added clearance.

 

To complete the bogie detail I added some 16 BA nuts to the side frames.

 

Here's the completed brake linkages and cylinder. The mounting bracket has a cut out at the rear to allow clearance for the gearbox on the rear axle. If you look back at Petebe's you will notice he has used the full size bracket (both are included on the etch) so I assume he will be driving the middle axle.

 

I have also modified the piping on the left hand lubricators following further investigation after seeing Pete's photos of DoS and reading Dave Holt's comments.

 

I wasn't happy with the alignment of the cladding band on the lower firebox so removed and refitted them on both sides.

 

Finally I got around to scoring the joint lines on the smoke deflectoes between the rivet lines. Should have done it in the flat really as it would have been easier.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Deano747]

Lovely clean work Peter. I thoroughly enjoy your builds!

 

Regards, Deano.

[PAD]

Thanks Deano,

I like to keep the solder to the minimum and clean up as much as possible. It's never clean enough though so I have to try harder.

 

I found this Finney A3 build some time ago on " Building O Gauge Online". It's by a guy called Christian Cresswell. This is how I'd like my builds to be. Dikitriki and Mickoo (from Finney 7) on Western Thunder are in the same league but I have a way to go yet.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[mswjr]

Definitely going to give up,Gonna sell my soldering iron

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Deano,

I like to keep the solder to the minimum and clean up as much as possible. It's never clean enough though so I have to try harder.

 

I found this Finney A3 build some time ago on " Building O Gauge Online". It's by a guy called Christian Cresswell. This is how I'd like my builds to be. Dikitriki and Mickoo (from Finney 7) on Western Thunder are in the same league but I have a way to go yet.

main.jpg

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

If you do a search on here I seem to recall that Christian had a build thread at one time.

[ikks]

Thanks Deano,

I like to keep the solder to the minimum and clean up as much as possible. It's never clean enough though so I have to try harder.

 

I found this Finney A3 build some time ago on " Building O Gauge Online". It's by a guy called Christian Cresswell. This is how I'd like my builds to be. Dikitriki and Mickoo (from Finney 7) on Western Thunder are in the same league but I have a way to go yet.

main.jpg

 

Cheers,

Peter

That is seriously scary!!!!!

Mike

[Horsetan]

That is seriously scary!!!!!

Nah, I can still see traces of solder on that.

[JeffP]

Ah, Christian Cresswell, used to love following his builds on "Building O gauge Online".

 

I wonder what happened to him?

 

And why that site stopped adding new builds? The webmaster, simon Varnam, was also instrumental in MIGO+1, but I've not heard of him either for a while.

[PAD]

I go back to the site every now and then but none of the part builds have everprogressed.

 

The site is still live as they have a web shop.I use their water based flux which I find is excellent and would recommend.

Cheers,

Peter

[JeffP]

Me too.

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And good service too.

 

Ordered a fresh bottle last Thursday evening and  recived on Saturday morning.

[PAD]

I finally managed to get started on the  cylinders and valve gear, but  before  that I couldn't resist getting the  buffers on the loco.  The stocks are very nice brass castings as are the  oval heads. The  stocks have a square hole cast in them, to which a square shaft on the  head is  meant to mate, thus keeping the  oval heads horizontal.  I must admit, I was a bit  dubious that these would work well, but hats off to Gladiator. After some fettling with the file, tapping the  end of  the  square shaft 10 BA, adding a spring and  nut , they work perfectly!  Here they are before  fixing to the  buffer beam

 

And  after fixing.

Nice.

 

On with the  cylinders and  valve gear.  First the  slide bars and  cross head/piston rod after fettling.

 

The drop link come  as an etching with half etch bolt detail. The problem with that is  the link is very thin and  not  only looks poor, but  I thought also too fragile.  However, that nice  Mr. Gladiator provides two sets on the  fret, so by laminating a left and  a right X 2, then filing off the  bolts on the  back of each, you  end up with a  visually better and  more robust fitting.

 

It was necessary to grind off the  curved bit behind hole in the  cross head to get the  link to sit flat on the  extension at the  rear of  the  casting.

 

Here are the slide bars soldered to the  cylinders.

And yes, I know the  left cylinder has taken a  knock at the  rear of  the  top curve. It's fixed now.

 

 

Here are the slide bar and  motion brackets laminated and  fettled up ready for  soldering together on the  cylinders.

 

And soldered to the  cylinders.

 

And in place in the frames.

 

This  is  the  right side rocker arm bracket soldered to the  frame. The bottom hole was tapped to take  a 14 BA bolt to allow  the  rocker arm to be disconnected from the  frames, so that valve  gear and  cylinders may  be  removed as one  unit.

 

Here's the  fret showing the  return crank etchings. It's a laminate of  two parts (inner and  outer with half etch bolt detail), but  the  outer part has raised bolt detail instead of  being recessed as per  the  prototype. Again that nice  Mr. Gladiator comes to our  rescue by providing spare outer etches on the fret. This allows one  etch to have the  bolts drilled out and  then overlayed  and laminated to the  other giving a better appearance. it still needs to be laminated to the  inner etch. 

 

Here are the  radius rod, expansion link and  eccentric rod before joining. I have  added the  provided brass washers from the  etch to prevent slop in the  joints.

The lower hole in the expansion link was added to allow the vale gear to be  set  in the  forward gear.

 

These are the valve rod guide castings. One fettled, one  just cut  from the  sprue.

 

And all fitted. Left hand side  only at this  stage. Sorry about  the  focus on this  image.

 

And a close up.

 

Here's the  left hand cylinder cover after "panel beating" out the  dint  seen in the  previous image.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

[PAD]

Before somebody points it out, I realised afterwards that although the return crank nuts are in a recess, they are in fact still proud of the crank surface.

 

However, I still think my modification improves the appearance so I'm sticking with it.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[JeffP]

Good idea with the buffers.

Perhaps JLTRT might like to look at that for their oval buffered diesels?

[PAD]

A little bit more progress on the left hand valve gear. Here's the lifting link and reversing arm in place on the cross shaft. I used 1.6mm NS rod for the shaft then centre punched and drill the end. I think the shaft on the real thing may be hollow but I'm not sure. In any case I don't have any NS tube. The pin on the end of the lifting link is 1mm NS rod only soldered to the out etching so that the valve gear can be removed.

 

The shaft passes through the frames so I extended the gap for the valve gear bracket with a grinding disk so the shaft can be dropped into place. The valve gear/cylinders need to be put in at an angle so the cosmetic frame spacers on the valve gear and slide bar brackets were cut off.

 

Here are the slots cut in the frames to allow the lifting link cross shaft to drop into the aperture.

 

Here's the left hand valve gear back in the frames.

 

And the right hand side with the lifting link just pushed onto the shaft.

 

I also laminated the left hand connecting rod and fitted it to the crosshead. I soldered a 14 BA nut to the outside of the crosshead, then drilled it 1mm and tapped it 12 BA. The connecting rod is then fitted with a 12 BA counter sunk bolt from the inside. A 12 BA nut would be too big but I preferred to use a 12 BA bolt so hence the jiggery pokery with the nut.

 

The wheels can't be turned as the front crackpin needs sorting out as it fouls the connecting rod.

 

Here's a shot of the crosshead and nut.

 

I won't be able to do anything further next week due to a business trip, so progress will stall for a while.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[N15class]

I do like the idea of having the valve gear coming off with the cylinders etc. I already make them removable. Think I will try on the jubilee that's coming up.

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

For me it's always best to have the cylinders and valve gear de-mountable as a unit. The first 7mm kit I built (Oakville Ivatt 2 6 2) had them fixed to the frames if I remember correctly, but that was the least of my problems with that kit. Talk about a baptism of fire!

 

Ever since then I only build outside cylinders/valve gear to be de-mountable, either by design or modification.

 

The Gladiator/David Andrews/Javelin method is quite good, albeit with 6 BA nuts and bolts which are over large. However, as long as they are not visible, why change them as the holes and slots are too large for smaller items.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

However looking at my pics it would seem the rocker straddles the valve spindle. Overall I think the chassis bracket is too low.

Pete

Hi Pete,

Regarding your comment on the valve rocker bracket, I don't think it's too low looking at this.

 

I don't have the model to hand but will check it later. In any case, looking at your photo of the valve spindle on DoS, it is clear that the rocker lever connection to the spindle on the kit is much simplified and will require some scratch building to get it to cut the mustard (well spread it anyway).

 

Cheers,

Peter

[dikitriki]

Hi Peter,

 

You're right, the rocker mechanism is simplified. Without the adjusters top and bottom, the end of the rocker would be describing an arc, whereas the spindle motion is linear. In fact it is the one end of the adjusters which are attached to the valve spindle, and the other end is attached to the rocker only.

 

 

 

Richard