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Dapol Class 56 conversion to EM

Class 56 EM Gauge




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#1 Richie Kynaston

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:50

Hi all,
I'm new to EM Gauge, so thinking of acquiring a Dapol 56 second hand as my first loco and doing the conversion to EM, either by changing wheel sets, or both bogies if I can find some etched brass replacements. Have a soft spot for 56s and there seems to be a few of them about on eBay.

Is that a good starting point? Has anyone converted one previous and have any hints/tips?

Richie



#2 PM47079

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 17:14

I haven't done one but it looks like a good loco to use. Its wheelsets and axles drop straight out.

#3 jpendle

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 17:33

The Dapol Cl56 is N Gauge not OO. Wouldn't the EM gauge wheelset stick out a bit?

 

Did you really mean the 56?

 

Regards,

 

John P



#4 njee20

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 17:58

I'm presuming he means the old OO gauge one from 30 years ago, which would seem a sensible option. Was a good model that.

#5 Richie Kynaston

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 19:14

The Dapol Cl56 is N Gauge not OO. Wouldn't the EM gauge wheelset stick out a bit?
 
Did you really mean the 56?
 
Regards,
 
John P

  

I'm presuming he means the old OO gauge one from 30 years ago, which would seem a sensible option. Was a good model that.

 

Hi John and Njee,
Sorry if I confused you, yes I did mean the old OO gauge model - I believe from what I've read the tooling subsequently became the Hornby model.

 

I haven't done one but it looks like a good loco to use. Its wheelsets and axles drop straight out.


hi 47079,
Thanks for that. A '56' fits with my eventual plans, so I thought I'd see about picking one up cheaply, moving it to EM, upgrading it to DCC Sound, upgrading the lights, detailing and doing a repaint into Large Logo. Never done any of that, so will be a learning curve! I believe it was quite a good model in its day. Can anyone point me towards any detailing parts suppliers for it? I'm thinking of using Railtec Transfers for the number and arrows.

Richie
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#6 dj_crisp

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 20:37

There are two 56s in the Hornby range. One that has origins from Dapol & mainline I think... and then the new super detailed version.

Shawplan has loads of detail parts which make a good model superb. I'll be doing one soon! The etched grills are amazing

As for wheel conversion I've got some 15mm Ultrascale wheels which are about right as the prototype is 3ft9. I'm hoping to be able to convert one of the newer Hornby versions with them.

Tbh I'd go for the later super detailed versions... as you're repainting then just go for an unpopular livery!

Enjoy!
Will

#7 Richie Kynaston

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 21:25

Hi Will,
Thanks for that. I haven't been involved in Model railways, specifically OO gauge for about 20 years! So this is all a bit of new ground, and my thought was the older Dapol model was probably cheaper if its goes wrong at all! Are there many differences between the old and new body shells/motors? This may seem a silly question, but how do you cut the old grills out to replace them, is this a case of using a dremel or something similar and cutting the body side away?

Does anyone know if the original Dapol model had flush glazing, and if not, can it be retro fitted?

Richie

#8 dj_crisp

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 22:13

Hi Richie!

Always good to practice on a cheaper bodyshell and the all OO 56s have a good body shape and make good models.

The internal mechanism of the super detail version is much better in my opinion so that's why Id go for that.

I've fitted Shawplans side and roof grilles and I seem to remember the sizes are the same. There is some work to do to fit them flush but is quite straightforward. You can go to town and and Shawplan do loads of parts.

Check out blueeighties thread on rmweb as Lee has loads of 56s he's working on atm.

Cheers
Will
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#9 cheesysmith

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 07:22

The only difference between the Hornby version and the Dapol/mainline version is the fact the Hornby ones came with separate metal cab door hand rails. The chassis and motor in both are identical. The pancake motor fited to these models are poor, but the centre section of the new super detailed fits into them with minor mods and give you better under frame details as well. Also, be aware fitting flush glazing as the openings are tapered, but I believe someone is working on a better replacemnt glazing for them.

Or the bogies have the same wheel base as the 58, so you can use Heljan bits to repower one. I think there was a discussion when the new Hornby version was released over the shapes of both, specifically the cab roofs, but cannot remember the outcome of it.
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#10 Richie Kynaston

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 07:51

Hi Will and Cheesysmith,
That's really helpful thanks for all the info. This is going to be a cock-up, learn, correct exercise! But I'll keep my eye open for a Heljan 58 chassis. I used to have one of the Dapol models and recall the motors were not great, so was thinking how I could update the motor anyway.

Presumably, it's a case of stripping the Heljan chassis and reassembling the various parts on the 56?

Richie

#11 forest2807

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 08:44

I think a Heljan Class 58 chassis would be hard to come by. You could buy one complete loco in a less popular livery and sell the bodyshell.
For clarification, I would add one word to Cheesysmith's first sentence 2 posts above:
"The only difference between the OLD Hornby version and the Dapol/Mainline version is the fact that the Hornby ones came with separate cab door handrails."
The new Hornby version is far superior in terms of chassis/motor/drivetrain. And a wee bit better in the way of body shell, but as stated previously, the Mainline/Dapol bodies were way ahead of their time and stand up pretty well alongside more modern models.
On a separate note, I have a couple of (new) Hornby Class 56s in bits awaiting rebuilding/respraying. As my 'to do' list is longer than my projected lifespan, if you are interested in taking one/both off my hands, drop me a PM.
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#12 cheesysmith

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 09:32

The last versions of the old mainline 56 by Hornby release were fitted with metal handrails for the cab. I know, i have one sat in front of me with a new Hornby super detailed chassis to go into it. As for using Heljan bits to repower one, i have already done it using the sprues avalible as spares, and transfering the gears and motor from a 47 chassis that suffered mazac rot aquired cheap. Also, the Heljan spare sprues are useful for things like wipers as well.


Edited by cheesysmith, 24 June 2017 - 09:32 .

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#13 forest2807

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:05

Not sure if the last post is a cross one directed at me Cheesysmith, but if so I think we are at crossed purposes. I am in agreement with everything you say!

#14 cheesysmith

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:10

No, just pointing out that Hornby did improve the old mainline body with separate metal cab handrails. A lot of people get confused between the old mainline version and the new super detailed version (just look at the prices being asked on ebay).



#15 Richie Kynaston

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:23

Thanks guys!

Adrian: you have a pm!

Cheeseysmith: sounds like a good way of reusing older components! I presume the old Dapol body won't fit on the new Hornby chassis? Where can Heljan spares be purchased from? I cannot see anything on their website.

Richie

#16 forest2807

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:31

The old body will fit on the new Hornby chassis with a bit of work, I have done one but subsequently sold it on. It had a slight hint over an 'overbite' in the bufferbeam area, but not enough to stop me selling it on eBay for a decent amount. It was only noticeable to a Class 56 afficianado tbh.
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#17 John Tomlinson

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:55

FWIW the old Mainline 56 did come in at least one version in Large Logo blue, which might save you a bit of painting. These used to be common at Toy Fairs for around £25 some years ago, and I suspect you'd find examples on Ebay today.

 

I'd thought that the Mainline examples also had metal handrails but stand to be corrected.

 

John.


Edited by John Tomlinson, 24 June 2017 - 10:57 .

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#18 John Tomlinson

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 11:10

Just to add to my post, there are a two Large Logo Mainline examples on Ebay at present ( and that's only page 2 of the search), price £34 buy it now or best offer.

 

They don't have metal handrails, so my memory was incorrect, and I defer to the man with the most excellent picture of our former leader on his profile.

 

John.


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#19 cheesysmith

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 11:23

I picked up a Hornby body with metal handrails discribed as in need of work (all he had done was remove 1 number from each side) for a grand total of £4 plus p+p off ebay.

 

The Heljan bits look on howes of oxford. Heljan sprue F x2 (class 58).

 

Bogie sides, use the trailing bogies.

 

Pickups spares from Hornby (old version).

 

EE for detailing bits.

 

Detailing bits for the underframe, keep a eye out for spares from the new version. Replacing the tanks and air compressor on the underframe is a good improvement.

y

Any Heljan chassis with the large motor will do, if you need the gears for the inside of the bogies, there are cheap ones avalible (mod5 gears). You mainly want the worm and bearings.


Edited by cheesysmith, 24 June 2017 - 11:25 .

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#20 90733

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:42

The new super detailed class 56 is generally a more superior model. You should also be able to EM the newer Hornby model by pulling the existing wheels out on the axles, saving the cost of new wheelsets. No doubt this method is frowned upon by some EM modellers!


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#21 Enterprisingwestern

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:57

The new super detailed class 56 is generally a more superior model. You should also be able to EM the newer Hornby model by pulling the existing wheels out on the axles, saving the cost of new wheelsets. No doubt this method is frowned upon by some EM modellers!

 

Not by ones from Yorkshire, I'm in full agreement!

 

Mike.


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#22 tractor_37260

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 20:14

Hi all,
I'm new to EM Gauge, so thinking of acquiring a Dapol 56 second hand as my first loco and doing the conversion to EM, either by changing wheel sets, or both bogies if I can find some etched brass replacements. Have a soft spot for 56s and there seems to be a few of them about on eBay.

Is that a good starting point? Has anyone converted one previous and have any hints/tips?

Richie

 

Hi Richie

 

              Sent you a PM re a surplus Mainline L/L Blue 56  (click on the letter symbol at this site page header to read)


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#23 Classsix T

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 13:25

Class 56 bogies don't have equidistant axle centres, so I'm confused how a Heljan 58 mech can be used without further butchery?

C6T.
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#24 tractor_37260

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 21:14

Class 56 bogies don't have equidistant axle centres, so I'm confused how a Heljan 58 mech can be used without further butchery?

C6T.

 

Better/easier option to use this in the old Dapol/Mainline 56...........Mashima Motor/Romford drive conversion for the original bogie.........

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#25 Marcyg

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 22:39

On the old Dapol model, Hornby also added extra pick ups to the bogies, so it picks up on all wheels. And be darned if I can find any of them as separate items!














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