Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[martin_wynne]

Mike - I think Jeff (note his location) was commenting on the new Code 70 track. And he's right, there had been loadsa teasing stuff about bullhead OO, before points and now other items were announced. But now we have a big single announcement of a whole range of Code 70 all in one breath. 

 

The Code 70 range will be competing with existing products. Peco are looking for a share of an existing market, the market size and potential sales are already known. See: https://www.micromark.com/Micro-Engineering-HO-Scale-Code-70-6-Right-Turnout_2

 

For the 00 bulhead the market was completely new and unknown size. Hence the more cautious approach.

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

Snap!

[Trog]

Judging from observations, the transition from bullhead to flatbottom rail seemed to be earlier than from wooden to concrete sleepers. If concrete sleeper bullhead track exists at all then it is very uncommon. I have certainly never seen any.

So uncommon that I would not consider it commercially viable & I expect Peco would view things the same way.

 

Standard E1 and E4 concrete sleepers depending on if the chairs are fixed to the sleepers using bolts or chairscrews. There is still miles of it out there and used to be a lot more.

[Jeff Smith]

Mike - I think Jeff (note his location) was commenting on the new Code 70 track. And he's right, there had been loadsa teasing stuff about bullhead OO, before points and now other items were announced. But now we have a big single announcement of a whole range of Code 70 all in one breath.

 

Yes, that was my point exactly!

 

I would like to see some code 70 O16.5 FB track, just a duplication of the code 100 range would be great.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[Fat Controller]

Standard E1 and E4 concrete sleepers depending on if the chairs are fixed to the sleepers using bolts or chairscrews. There is still miles of it out there and used to be a lot more.

The WR seemed to have been keen on it for secondary main-lines; I've found examples on the Castle-Cary- Weymouth line, and on the Somerset and Dorset.

[Trog]

The real rarity was long welded bullhead rail on concrete sleepers although one stretch definitely existed on a branchline/secondary route where it was laid for experimental purposes.

 

 

Still some at the Aylesbury end of the branch line to Princes Risborough, and there used to be some towards the St Albans end of the Abbey Branch from Watford Junction.

 

The track at Aylesbury has a BH version of the current FB adjustment switch where it abuts the jointed track into Aylesbury station. The Abbey branch track had the old 1960's type of adjustment switch using a single point blade and slide chairs, the blade being held against the stock rail by clamps under the rail.

[Pint of Adnams]

Photograph here on Network Rail's own site of a CS1 sleeper with BH chairs still in place: https://www.railwayrecycling.co.uk/concrete-sleepers-panels.html

[John ks]

 

 

Code 70 US style track is good news or at least it would have been if my track wasn't all laid except for a small extension which will all be bullhead 

 

About 3-4 years ago I first saw an announcement is a US mag for a Peco code 83 double slip(SL-U8363) about a year latter I saw another add showing the slip

Last year I was able to purchase one hot off the press(well lukewarm by the I discoverer that they were available in Oz)

I still can't find any mention of them on Peco's site

 

My points(and I don't mean track work) are 

1  Using the code83 slip as a guide it could take 2 to 3 years before we see HO code 70 standard gauge, I hope I am wrong.

2  Peco need to keep their website up to date

 

If the code70 rail will fit in the code83 sleepers then plain track could be available very soon

 

Don't mean to be too negative, just realistic.

 

John

[Oldddudders]

 

Code 70 US style track is good news or at least it would have been if my track wasn't all laid except for a small extension which will all be bullhead 

 

About 3-4 years ago I first saw an announcement is a US mag for a Peco code 83 double slip(SL-U8363) about a year latter I saw another add showing the slip

Last year I was able to purchase one hot off the press(well lukewarm by the I discoverer that they were available in Oz)

I still can't find any mention of them on Peco's site

 

My points(and I don't mean track work) are 

1  Using the code83 slip as a guide it could take 2 to 3 years before we see HO code 70 standard gauge, I hope I am wrong.

2  Peco need to keep their website up to date

 

If the code70 rail will fit in the code83 sleepers then plain track could be available very soon

 

Don't mean to be too negative, just realistic.

 

John

 

I will take a firm that has a great and effective distribution network for its products, as Peco does, but a lousy website, over one with a whizzy website and patchy product availability - any day!

[Bernard Lamb]

Still some at the Aylesbury end of the branch line to Princes Risborough, and there used to be some towards the St Albans end of the Abbey Branch from Watford Junction.

 

While out for  bike ride this morning I noticed that the level crossing at Marsh was on a section of FB rail while a few yards each side it changed to BH.

Funnily enough the lights came on and a train went past. Very rare at any time yet alone on a Sunday.

Bernard

[Methuselah]

Judging from observations, the transition from bullhead to flatbottom rail seemed to be earlier than from wooden to concrete sleepers. If concrete sleeper bullhead track exists at all then it is very uncommon. I have certainly never seen any.

So uncommon that I would not consider it commercially viable & I expect Peco would view things the same way.

 

There was certainly plenty of BH with concrete sleepers, but I'd not define it as having been common. For example, whilst BR(W) was busy relaying mainlines in the early 1960's with FB, it was still in short sections and on wooden sleepers. At the same time, some branches were being lifted which had BH on concrete sleepers, such as Kidderminster-Wooferton, which was probably only replaced in the 1950's, so it wasn't down for long when it was decommissioned in the early 1960's.

[Chris116]

I know this is a preserved line and all the track had to be relaid after it had been taken up by BR but Alton has plenty of bull head track on concrete sleepers.

[alfsboy]

 

 

 

 

 

If the code70 rail will fit in the code83 sleepers then plain track could be available very soon

 

Don't mean to be too negative, just realistic.

 

John

It does John .i already did some just before Christmas for my industrial spurs .

[autocoach]

I can hold back no longer....every time I open this topic I mentally feel the flesh of my hand being impaled by a new bull head point....

 

That being said it was nice the messages veered a little off topic and I learned about the Peco North American Code 70 plans. Now if they did North American prototype code 55 we could easily and reliably approximate that lost in weeds siding and branch line image.

 

Could I suggest a separate topic for Peco North American products. I learn more from RMWEB than I do from any of the currently active North American discussion boards.  Message Groups are a different matter. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by autocoach

[Bernard Lamb]

I can hold back no longer....every time I open this topic I mentally feel the flesh of my hand being impaled by a new bull head point....

 

 

 

If you do get round to trying some you will soon feel the pain of actually having your hand pierced by the new fishplates.

They can be savage little beggars but quite delightful at the same time.

Bernard

[Guest]

I can hold back no longer....every time I open this topic I mentally feel the flesh of my hand being impaled by a new bull head point....

 

The thread title's quite appropriate then?

 

If you do get round to trying some you will soon feel the pain of actually having your hand pierced by the new fishplates.

They can be savage little beggars but quite delightful at the same time.

 

If anyone uses Swann Morton scalpel blades, you'll probably have snapped the tip off one or two in the past. Discard the broken pointy end, but keep the rear of the blade and keep it in the knife handle. The width of the broken blade (I mainly use 10A) is an absolutely perfect fit into the Peco fishplate. You can then use the knife handle to push the fishplate onto the rail end. I discovered this quite by accident (blood was involved) and my fingertips have been grateful ever since.

[Chamby]

The thread title's quite appropriate then?

 

 

 

If anyone uses Swann Morton scalpel blades, you'll probably have snapped the tip off one or two in the past. Discard the broken pointy end, but keep the rear of the blade and keep it in the knife handle. The width of the broken blade (I mainly use 10A) is an absolutely perfect fit into the Peco fishplate. You can then use the knife handle to push the fishplate onto the rail end. I discovered this quite by accident (blood was involved) and my fingertips have been grateful ever since.

I use an old Stanley knife blade. They are made of thicker metal - if you inset the blade into the fishplate (using the sharpened part which goes in easily) it just seems to ease the gap enough to aid fitting, but still keep it tight.

[Guest Anders63]

Any news about Peco bullhead track system and pictures/videos?

Nurnberg messe 2018 has already past but i can´t find any news about Peco.

I still wait my order for turnouts and flex tracks.

[The Bigbee Line]

I know this is a preserved line and all the track had to be relaid after it had been taken up by BR but Alton has plenty of bull head track on concrete sleepers.

 

Chris, nice pictures, good detail.

 

I may be be repeating myself, excuse me if that's the case...

 

In the 80's as a Freight Guard I had a few jobs on the Ashford - Hastings line, after it had been singled from Appledore to Ore.  The section from Winchelsea to Doleham had a length of concrete sleepered Bullhead track.  The 60' rails had been welded into 120' lengths, you knew where you were as the clickety click changed as you went from 60's to 120's.  All the end sleepers had been changed to wood.  There was some mention that one style was to insert the bolt from the bottom with the nut on the top, the other had the bolt head at the top.  Whatever the reason one type made changing broken items quite difficult as the bolt could not be dropped easily to allow a broken sleeper to be replaced.

 

The ones in the picture have the jointed sleepers replaced with wood.

 

[cheesysmith]

The line from York the Scarborough was bullhead rail on concrete sleepers made into CWR to allow 158s to run faster, well it still was in the 90s, don't know about now as I haven't been that way in years.

[Blobrick]

Has anyone heard any news about forth coming addition Peco Bullhead items?. I am sure l d heard something about an announcement in the early part of this year. I had a quick scan through this thread and did nt pick up on any additional info 

[Dungrange]

Has anyone heard any news about forth coming addition Peco Bullhead items?. I am sure l d heard something about an announcement in the early part of this year. I had a quick scan through this thread and did nt pick up on any additional info 

 

See Post #769 regarding diamond and slips with an indication that medium and curved points will follow.

[Blobrick]

See Post #769 regarding diamond and slips with an indication that medium and curved points will follow.

 

Many thanks, l missed that post !!

[JSModels]

For those interested, I spoke to the chap on the Peco stand at York about ETA for the new diamond and slips. He said most of the design work is well underway, but that they were currently looking at November/December 2018 for release.

[gr.king]

With the nuisance of my real work resulting in zero progress beyond the paper stage so far on the new portable layout I'm hoping to build, it may well turn out that a Peco BH slip becomes an option in the track laying phase, something for which I never hoped and certainly did not expect. Building my own slip to the best possible geometry for the location may still be the better decision of course....

Edited April 1, 2018 by gr.king