Bachmann Turbostars (Class 168, 170 & 171) - Retooled

[Andy Mac]

I'm new to model railways - therefore by them not being at the CAD stage yet, are we looking at an early 2020 release date, or something even later?

 

Thanks

Bachmann are now getting back on track, so to speak, with their new models or re-toolings of existing models.... we are still waiting for the class 158/mk2f’s which were announced in 2013, class 90 in 2014 (dates from memory!!!)

If you look a couple of posts up at DRS Crewe on a mission’s post #48, then i’d say that answers your question...

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

I'm new to model railways - therefore by them not being at the CAD stage yet, are we looking at an early 2020 release date, or something even later?

 

Thanks

 

Off the top of my head the 158s were announced in 2012, the DBSOs & MK2Fs in 2013, the 90s in 2014, the Colas 70/8 and Freightliner 70/0 in 2015 and the 20/3s in January 2017. 

 

We are yet to see any of the above projects, some of which were announced several years ago released. 

 

The Class 70s are due to arrive this month or next month, the MK2Fs and DBSOs in Summer 2018, the 90s in March 2019, the 158s in Summer 2019 and the 20/3s are yet to be given a release date. 

 

Although the order announced doesn't necessarily mean the order released in. As you can see the 158s, MK2Fs and DBSOs were announced the earliest but they will be the last ones from the above list to be released. 

 

Because the 168, 170 and 171 retools have just been announced in January 2018 I very much doubt that we will see them before 2020. Possibly we are looking at a 2020/2021 release at the earliest considering that the 20/3s are yet to be given a release date and these were announced 14 months ago. 

[Andy Y]

Off the top of my head the 158s were announced in 2012,

 

At that point it was intended to be a basic re-working for DCC provision but it was decided to go much further which will result in a completely re-worked chassis with low-height drivetrain so it is more complex than saying it's taken 6 years.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

At that point it was intended to be a basic re-working for DCC provision but it was decided to go much further which will result in a completely re-worked chassis with low-height drivetrain so it is more complex than saying it's taken 6 years.

 

Thanks Andy.

 

I wasn't aware of this. It does make sense to rework the 158 more extensively considering the amount of liveries that can be modelled. Personally I would rather wait for a reworked model/s than just have one that allows DCC Fitting. Very much looking forward to reworked 158s. 

[mdvle]

I'm new to model railways - therefore by them not being at the CAD stage yet, are we looking at an early 2020 release date, or something even later?

 

Thanks

 

No easy answer.

 

If everything goes right then the quickest would probably be 12 to 18 months, but there are a lot of assumptions in that.

 

Any number of issues can cause delays so it could be longer.

 

The good news is that Bachmann appear to have gotten over their recent production issues (an issue not unique to Bachmann, they all seem to run into periods of trouble at some point) and based on the comments and decisions Bachmann have made (see post above from AndyY about a different model) as well as the samples of the Mk2f, Class 90, and crane Bachmann appear to be on track to release really good models going forward.

[159220]

 

As one of the team that attends virtually all exhibitions on behalf of Bachmann, I would take issue with the way in which we have been accused of dismissing enquiries. Firstly on the front of both the Branchline and Farish catalogues I stick the latest information from the Bachmann Times which is updated at three monthly intervals. Any enquiry will be shown the status of each and every product – without being able to check exactly as I am not at work right now, the status of the Class 158 has been the same for at least the last two years and that has been in the research stage and at Barwell. This information is not secret it has been published in the Bachmann Times for the duration and only moves as and when there is progress to the next stage. Any requests for information would have been told the current status – we don’t do shoulder shrugging on the stand. I appreciate that often this is not the answer people want to here and therefore they are less than appreciative of the answer we give. However, unless a project moves in the chain, then there is little else we can do and there has been plenty of movement of projects during this year already and will continue for the rest of the year.

 

Likewise our own catalogues are marked up to show the recommended retail price and expected release dates if the item is not yet available. If the item is in stock we have it marked and also if it is sold out (from our warehouse rather than dealers) it has a big X through it. I know that this kind of information is appreciated by our stand visitors. It takes quite a while to update these and often it is undertaken outside normal working hours.

 

When the Class 158 was scheduled to be upgraded it was the original intention for it to receive a DCC socket and a makeover of the chassis to accommodate it. However, DCC developments have moved on rapidly and the availability of low floor power technology has determined that rather than upgrade the existing tooling, it would be better to start again with a completely new model. This would enable us to produce a high quality model to current standards that would encompass any tooling variations in future. The development of the low floor motor unit is being developed in conjunction with other projects and will also determine the future appearance of other second generation DMU models of which there are number in the range currently without DCC interface. Our Design Engineers have visited various units and gathered in all the information (just as they would for any new project) and unfortunately this takes time.

 

The original model was released in 1996 and was produced in the days of paper drawings which predates CAD. This had resulted in the need for a completely new set of research material. At the press day on the 5th July it was reported that the Class 158 had progressed beyond the research and development stage and moved on to the CAD design stage in China.

 

As a professional communicator I am not sure what else I can do to please Perfect Paul. Every stage of every project is communicated via the Bachmann website, the model railway press and the forums that wish to engage with us (such as RM Web). We brief the press of all new announcements each January and hold a media day each July to give progress reports and to show the work in progress.  Having worked as a magazine journalist in the past, I know what journalists need to write a story and I make sure I deliver it – complete with images. The 5th July event was communicated by Andy within hours of it happening and is currently appearing in the monthly magazines who are publishing in-depth reports with plenty of images for those who are not internet users or prefer to obtain their news from the written media. We also see staff from the magazines at all the major shows where they are updated on anything new that has appeared in the cabinets since we last saw them. The Bachmann Times, the magazine of the Bachmann Collectors Club carries quarterly status reports on all new tooling projects and often this information is relayed in response to a specific enquiry. If none of these communication forms is acceptable then please email or telephone us – however the answer will be the same as it is on here.

 

When we have EP samples (the grey models that are often illustrated on this and other sites) then these form part of the displays we take to shows.

 

After every show we have attended a report on key issues is submitted. The Class 158 has appeared on every one of them!

 

If Perfect Paul makes himself known to me at any of the forthcoming shows we will be attending (see Bachmann website for show dates) then I promise to give him a personal update on each and every project he requests. I also promise to disappoint him by not shrugging my shoulders.

 

 

 

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager

Bachmann Europe Plc

 

 

 

At yesterday's press day:

 

The long overdue new tooling for the Class 158 was addressed with a statement that the chassis design is being carried out in parallel with the Class 117 and 121, not necessarily from a total commonality perspective but from a design principle point of view. The drive will be at a low level to keep the passenger area clear with a single motor bogie for each driving car; one decoder will be required per unit to operate all of the DCC functions and a dual speaker set up from one sound decoder to simulate separate engine sounds is under development.

 

 

1. - some projects take longer than others from a research or design perspective; why should other projects be held up behind them?

2. - they are doing - have a read of the press day report.

 

 

Thank you Andy. I will have a read. I wasn't aware of this. Thank you very much for letting me know.

 

 

Off the top of my head the 158s were announced in 2012, the DBSOs & MK2Fs in 2013, the 90s in 2014, the Colas 70/8 and Freightliner 70/0 in 2015 and the 20/3s in January 2017. 

 

We are yet to see any of the above projects, some of which were announced several years ago released. 

 

The Class 70s are due to arrive this month or next month, the MK2Fs and DBSOs in Summer 2018, the 90s in March 2019, the 158s in Summer 2019 and the 20/3s are yet to be given a release date. 

 

Although the order announced doesn't necessarily mean the order released in. As you can see the 158s, MK2Fs and DBSOs were announced the earliest but they will be the last ones from the above list to be released. 

 

Because the 168, 170 and 171 retools have just been announced in January 2018 I very much doubt that we will see them before 2020. Possibly we are looking at a 2020/2021 release at the earliest considering that the 20/3s are yet to be given a release date and these were announced 14 months ago. 

 

 

At that point it was intended to be a basic re-working for DCC provision but it was decided to go much further which will result in a completely re-worked chassis with low-height drivetrain so it is more complex than saying it's taken 6 years.

 

 

Thanks Andy.

 

I wasn't aware of this. It does make sense to rework the 158 more extensively considering the amount of liveries that can be modelled. Personally I would rather wait for a reworked model/s than just have one that allows DCC Fitting. Very much looking forward to reworked 158s. 

 

 

 

Now, I do not want to moan about our modern times, where we seem to have a memory retention of a goldfish. But I cannot help but wonder now with the internet, do we just have a circle of circles. 

 

The true gentleman, Dennis Lovett of Bachmann addressed the 158 last year on this forum. Furthermore, Andy Y addressed comments from the Bachmann 'Half Year Review' last year, to which DRC Crewe on a Mission thanked for now being aware. 

 

Now I am not singling this out, but, gosh what is it about the days we live in now, where if something is not repeated in 46 characters it is lost forever. A

 

Quite simply, we are going to be wowed with the 158 when released. We certainly would not of been pleased with the 2012 suggestion. Gosh, if the constant 'samey' talk of the 158 frustrates me, I hate to think how the Bachmann team feel.... 

[fezza]

I am happy to wait a bit longer for a really good model. It does seem rather odd however that a tiny outfit like Minerva can get a model to market in little over a year, while it has taken Bachmann over five to get to the CAD stage for a 158. This is hardly an obscure pregrouping prototype!

Edited April 15, 2018 by fezza

[St. Simon]

I am happy to wait a bit longer for a really good model. It does seem rather odd however that a tiny outfit like Minerva can get a model to market in little over a year, while it has taken Bachmann over five to get to the CAD stage for a 158. This is hardly an obscure pregrouping prototype!

Hi,

 

I wouldn't be surprised that the actual design teams at Minerva and Bachmann turned out to be very similar in size, the difference being that Bachmann have to spread their team out across, say, a dozen projects where as Minerva only have one or two, meaning that they can spend more time in the day on a model and get it out to market quicker.

 

Simon

[andyman7]

On 08/01/2018 at 22:40, John M Upton said:

I can sense all those who have paid a massive fortune in Ebay for the Limited Edition Southern 171's will probably be panicking right now, they will be all but worthless when the new one surfaces.

 

On 08/01/2018 at 22:49, andyman7 said:

Worth less maybe, but I doubt worthless. Mind you my 9 year old will be happy if they fall to within his financial grasp.

My 9 year old is now 12 and has through saving acquired a Modelzone Southern 171, which show no sign of being 'worthless'. He has cannily identified that once the retooled 170/171 is announced as in production he will have a few months to sell it on and be ready for the new one.....

[centraltrains]

Does anyone know if Bachmann are still going ahead with this? Searched their website just out of interest and couldn't find it listed anymore.

[rob D2]

IIRc it was noted elsewhere as cancelled .

[The Black Hat]

Anyone able to confirm that?

[Simon Bendall]

37 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Anyone able to confirm that?

 

The models in the catalogue were cancelled a while back. I wouldn't be surprised if a new model to the 158 spec pops up at some point.

[The Black Hat]

7 hours ago, Simon Bendall said:

 

The models in the catalogue were cancelled a while back. I wouldn't be surprised if a new model to the 158 spec pops up at some point.

 

Thats what I thought had been announced a while back, but can see it turning into a class 158 saga all over again. I think they did announce some 170s then pulled them because the class was going to get an upgrade. Seem to think one of the ones upgraded and announced was a 170 in XC. 

[adb968008]

There was a strange point where a Southern 171 was being listed, in both old and new tooling. The old dissapeared shortly after.

 

Here in Jan 2018...

32-468 Class 171/7 2-car DMU 171727 in Southern livery on the old tooling is still awaiting release for a year or so....

and 

35-580 Class 171 2-Car DMU No. 171722 in Southern livery
New Tooling

 

 

Its only 3 years ago, in Bachmann history thats not very long ago, i’d imagine 32-468 is for the birds, but the recent form of not announcing new releases until they are on the boat, suggests 35-580 will just creep up on us, maybe in a year or so. 
 

if theres a guide to go by, it was announced a month before Rails announced the 812 Caley, in Feb 2018, its due summer 2021, it is possible that being a more complex unit, non-commission model etc its riding behind.

Edited February 12, 2021 by adb968008

[joejab95]

8 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Thats what I thought had been announced a while back, but can see it turning into a class 158 saga all over again. I think they did announce some 170s then pulled them because the class was going to get an upgrade. Seem to think one of the ones upgraded and announced was a 170 in XC. 

 

I hope that does happen. The old model is still clearly in demand on the second hand market and given their widespread usage across the country over the last 20 years, I'm sure a retooled model would be very popular.

 

I just really hope we see the original liveries such as Central Trains and Midland Mainline return to model form!

[brushman47544]

There are currently no Class 170s or clones listed on the Bachmann website. As a previously announced model they should appear, as in theory only new models will be announced for the first time when about to go on sale.  35-580 still appears on various retailers' websites for pre-order, but I do vaguely remember an announcement that the awaited Turbostars had been cancelled.

 

Perhaps Bachmann is working on an all new singing and dancing model that will allow Electrostars to be produced as well. But I won't hold my breath.

[centraltrains]

I thought it was the case that they were going to retool it as per the class 158? That's when new liveries such as the Chiltern 168 were announced, still seem to be available to pre-order at some shops.

 

https://www.derails.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=939

[TomE]

On 12/02/2021 at 15:29, brushman47544 said:

Perhaps Bachmann is working on an all new singing and dancing model

 

They are. It was announced as such at the same time as the Class 158, with that coming first and the Turbos following after. I expect we'll see more news on it during this year. 

 

Hopefully they follow this pattern in the Farish range too. The current N gauge 170 is not too bad but is really showing its age now compared to recent standards so it would be nice to see it revisited after the new 158 is out. 

 

Tom.  

[The Black Hat]

8 minutes ago, TomE said:

 

They are. It was announced as such at the same time as the Class 158, with that coming first and the Turbos following after. I expect we'll see more news on it during this year. 

 

Hopefully they follow this pattern in the Farish range too. The current N gauge 170 is not too bad but is really showing its age now compared to recent standards so it would be nice to see it revisited after the new 158 is out. 

 

Tom.  

 

Yes it was as a retool and I have checked with one or two shops showing the Chiltern, Cross Country and Southern 171 units as pre-order. I think Bachmann again was grabbing territory to deter others with the announcement, but given the obvious delays that saw 158 pushed back, many will also hope that the same issues have not effected the 170. 

[Legend]

I thought that after announcing retooled 170s they formally stated that the project was paused .  That was some time ago, I cant remember when though but possibly 2 years .  Of course this is suitably vague , discouraging other manufacturers from bringing one out , but at the same time not committing to produce one themselves .

 

Prices on eBay are high . I've seen £300 for a Scotrail (the latest version) liveried one .   I had thought about buying one when it first came out but I already have National Express and First versions and thought it was just too much for limited use .  I'm thinking that I could repaint one of them in basic blue and use decals , but as far as I can see Railtec don't do spotrail for 170s , although I'm wondering if the 320 decals could be adapted. 

 

It maybe that Bachmann are working on this in background , but even if they are the price when it comes out is likely to be eyewatering , so I still think the repaint route might be my best option. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Legend

[Paul.Uni]

The 20/0 was replaced with new tooling. I suspect they are still working on the Turbostars.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Paul.Uni

[Class 158 productions]

Hopefully now with the plux 22 coupling and drive system now used in the new DMUs, progress may pick up. Would be nice to have more updates on a product that will certainly cost a lot. 

[rob D2]

This is a tad confusing.

they were going to reissue some stuff from the old tooling - they didn’t .

 

they were going to retool these, and things like the chiltern version from scratch - those were cancelled ?

 

I don’t think anything is coming ?

[TomE]

14 hours ago, rob D2 said:

This is a tad confusing.

they were going to reissue some stuff from the old tooling - they didn’t .

 

they were going to retool these, and things like the chiltern version from scratch - those were cancelled ?

 

I don’t think anything is coming ?

 

No, not cancelled, but they were not included in the recent catalogues as they were still at the design stage with no confirmed production slot.

 

Basically, the retooled Turbostars were announced too early. 

 

Tom.