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Locomotion Models - updates and new coaching stock.





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#1 Andy Y

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 07:39

I recently had a conversation with the Science Museum Group's Retail Operations Manager, Tom Mackie, about recent communication issues. It proved to be an interesting conversation as, shown in the statement below, Locomotion are considering coaching stock appropriate for the Stirling Single.

 

 

 

Locomotionmodels.com, the Science Museum Group’s specialist, on-line, railway modelling sales operation, based at Locomotion, Shildon, is very much looking forward to the future, with some exciting projects in the pipeline.

 
Tom Mackie, Group Retail Operations Manager for the Science Museum Group, explains:
 
“For the last five years, Locomotionmodels.com has offering a range of limited edition and exclusive edition models of selected vehicles from the National Railway Collection. 
 
Sales of these products – our “National Collection in Miniature” collection – then generate profits which are re-invested into the Science Museum Group’s ongoing work to conserve, expand and display the National Railway Collection.
 
The Locomotionmodels.com team are currently reviewing some areas of the business, and we’re looking forward to developing our plans for the future.
 
The next model in our series is the GNR Stirling Single No. 1 in OO gauge, which we’re producing in association with Rapido Trains Inc. This model is now very much in the final stages of production, and we’re expecting to be able to give our customers a full update on delivery by mid May 2018.
 
We’re also looking forward to the arrival of our Evening Star box set, and we’re planning a Grand Launch event at Locomotion, Shildon, for the weekend of June 30/July 1 – which will feature Class 66 No. 66779 on display outside the front of the museum’s Collection Building, plus a host of other exciting activities for visitors to enjoy.
 
We’ve recently developed a partnership agreement with Rails of Sheffield, which will enable us to work closely together on certain key projects. We’re also exploring a range of other ideas for new releases, including coaches for the Stirling Single – watch this space for more details!
 
The Locomotionmodels.com team are always happy to hear from customers – our office at Locomotion, Shildon is open from 10am to 4pm, Monday to Friday. Please feel free to get in touch with us by telephone or email – we aim to reply to all enquiries within five working days.”
 

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#2 melmerby

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 07:45

Coaches for the GNR single?

 

That sounds interesting, I wonder what they will be?

 

Keith

 

EDIT there is a ECJS clerestory roofed vehicle in the National Collection, could that be the starting point?

How about a train like this?

 

https://upload.wikim...2-2_GNR_544.jpg :declare:

 

 


Edited by melmerby, 10 May 2018 - 07:54 .

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#3 Ryde-on-time

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 08:12

Good to see they are thinking of commissioning more new models and what's been done previously has been provided valuable revenue

 

Some BR Mk1 coaches next then?

 


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#4 Edwardian

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 08:39

I recently had a conversation with the Science Museum Group's Retail Operations Manager, Tom Mackie, about recent communication issues. It proved to be an interesting conversation as, shown in the statement below, Locomotion are considering coaching stock appropriate for the Stirling Single.

 

That is the most interesting thing I have heard since TMC announced the O Class.

 

It is also intriguing.

 

With no as-originally-preserved small tender option produced in the end, that would tend to rule out a recreation of the specific 1938 train, or any more modern stock hauled by No.1 when in steam in preservation.

 

As No.1's appearance was soon modified in service, logically a matching set of coaches would have to be 1870s-1880s ECJS 6-wheelers. However, I would be amazed and gratified in equal measure if we saw these. I would fall off my chair, in fact.

 

Mind you, there's Hardwicke sitting in the same shed, and, with some nice WCJS coaches, a couple of Race to the North train packs would be quite something.

 

There is obviously a NRM-Rapido-RAILS linkage that could result in many great things and it is certainly encouraging much wishful thinking! 


Edited by Edwardian, 10 May 2018 - 09:21 .

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#5 County of Yorkshire

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 12:33

Whilst I do not need any ECJS/GNR stock for my modelling needs, i would regard this as a hugely positive step were it to happen. With many steam locomotive prototypes now increasingly covered or 'earmarked' for release, perhaps the emphasis over the next 10 years will fall onto coaching stock? Tapping into the collectors market in addition to the modellers market might make this a viable thing to do in product development terms. 

 

What chance for STEAM Museum Swindon to invest in some fully-panelled Dreadnoughts or Toplights for their Lode Start model!? One can dream!

 

CoY


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#6 The Midland Mole

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 12:46

GNR Coaching stock would be fantastic! But I'm looking forward to whatever Locomotion announce next.....Hardwicke please! ;)

Alex


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#7 KymN

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 13:11

I have previously expressed concern about Locomotion's customer service and poor communication with its customers. This continues, and while I accept that its staff are hardworking, no amount of hard work can fix what appear to be systemic problems.  These need to be addressed by NRM's senior management and directors. It is clear that the present Locomotion resources are not able to manage the volume of work they are faced with.  The relationship with Rails suggests one option - to outsource the remote sales and distribution to a third party like Rails.  This would be similar to the arrangement that Model Rail magazine has with Kernow.

 

I look forward to delivery of a number of items that I have ordered.


Edited by KymN, 10 May 2018 - 13:11 .

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#8 woodenhead

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 13:44

I have previously expressed concern about Locomotion's customer service and poor communication with its customers. This continues, and while I accept that its staff are hardworking, no amount of hard work can fix what appear to be systemic problems.  These need to be addressed by NRM's senior management and directors. It is clear that the present Locomotion resources are not able to manage the volume of work they are faced with.  The relationship with Rails suggests one option - to outsource the remote sales and distribution to a third party like Rails.  This would be similar to the arrangement that Model Rail magazine has with Kernow.
 
I look forward to delivery of a number of items that I have ordered.


The NRM/RM is non commercial company using commercial activities to fund its core function. They are not going to be able to staff Locomotion like It was a Hattons type shop.

The thought of maybe Hardwicke one day and some pre grouping stock has my ears pricked, but it is an interesting new angle to also commission rolling stock, clearly Bachmann and Hornby aren't about to do any.
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#9 Edwardian

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 13:44

Whilst I do not need any ECJS/GNR stock for my modelling needs, i would regard this as a hugely positive step were it to happen. With many steam locomotive prototypes now increasingly covered or 'earmarked' for release, perhaps the emphasis over the next 10 years will fall onto coaching stock? Tapping into the collectors market in addition to the modellers market might make this a viable thing to do in product development terms. 

 

What chance for STEAM Museum Swindon to invest in some fully-panelled Dreadnoughts or Toplights for their Lode Start model!? One can dream!

 

CoY

 

That is a very good point.

 

I like "train packs".  Train sets for Grown Ups!  But they can be good value and a locomotive with matching stock is the perfect example of a whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

 

I've never bought a train pack" because none that suit me have ever been released, which precisely makes your point that coach coverage lacks behind locomotive coverage.

 

It seems, to me, to be a legitimate tactic to say "if you want such and such a loco identity, you'll have to buy it with 3 coaches".  provided the train pack represents a modest saving on separate purchases, the consumer is happy and you guarantee loco sales drag coach sales with them.

 

I realise this is a huge additional investment and is easier said than done, but if the collectors' market evolved to people wanting to collect trains, or at least a set of matching items - if that became The Thing - I think a lot of interesting possibilities open up. 

 

So far we tend to see inappropriate tooling pressed into service to provide companions to locos in train packs, but a museum approved commission relating to an historic locomotive is going to require something more specific and should avoid such dodges. 


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#10 Guy Rixon

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 16:12

If Locomotion plan later to release a GNR Atlantic, then ECJS 12-wheel stock would be appropriate. A train for a single, at the end of that loco's service, might be part 12-wheel stock and part 6-wheel, and it would be quite short.

 

EDIT: Locomotion already have a large atlantic on sale, I see.


Edited by Guy Rixon, 11 May 2018 - 12:36 .

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#11 Edwardian

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 16:52

If Locomotion plan later to release a GNR Atlantic, then ECJS 12-wheel stock would be appropriate. A train for a single, at the end of that loco's service, might be part 12-wheel stock and part 6-wheel, and it would be quite short.

 

Might help them sell a few more GN-liveried Atlantics - or main-range Bachmann ones.

 

I'd vote for the big 12-wheel ECJS clerestories, just the thing for the large Atlantics from 1903.

 

I've never see such a train modelled; it would be magnificent.

 

I would prefer these clerestories to the 1914 Flying Scotsman set.


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#12 melmerby

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 19:01

 A train for a single, at the end of that loco's service, might be part 12-wheel stock and part 6-wheel, and it would be quite short.

Or not as the picture I linked to with a late Single (with domed boiler) shows.

 

Keith


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#13 JSpencer

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:23

If Locomotion plan later to release a GNR Atlantic, then ECJS 12-wheel stock would be appropriate. A train for a single, at the end of that loco's service, might be part 12-wheel stock and part 6-wheel, and it would be quite short.

 

This is definitely interesting but they would need to focus on either 6 wheel stock or 12 wheel stock as doubtless there will be a universal chassis.

 

12 wheel can be used with Atlantic's but 6 wheel is somewhat more apt to the prototype.

 

Cost is going to be a big factor though. £125 was ok for the wonderfully detailed Dynamometer car, which has a as many parts as a small loco and is a one off vehicle. But no one is going to pay those sums for each coach in a rake of several such vehicles.


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#14 Fenman

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:32

...

12 wheel can be used with Atlantic's but 6 wheel is somewhat more apt to the prototype.

...

 

There are no good 6-wheeled coaches on the RTR market. They would look like nothing else that is available. And they would have a cuteness factor that might make them irresistible (at least to me). Frankly I'm amazed no-one else has had a go at 6-wheeled stock so far (although I know there are some technical issues about making them run easily). I vaguely recall a Scottish line with very restricted loading gauge was using 6-wheel carriages after WW2 (and they weren't that old then, either).

 

I'd love to see 6-wheel stock emerging.

 

Paul


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#15 31A

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:47

This is definitely interesting but they would need to focus on either 6 wheel stock or 12 wheel stock as doubtless there will be a universal chassis.

 

12 wheel can be used with Atlantic's but 6 wheel is somewhat more apt to the prototype.

 

Cost is going to be a big factor though. £125 was ok for the wonderfully detailed Dynamometer car, which has a as many parts as a small loco and is a one off vehicle. But no one is going to pay those sums for each coach in a rake of several such vehicles.

 

 

No reason why six wheelers couldn't be used with Atlantics as well.


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#16 Edwardian

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:07

There are no good 6-wheeled coaches on the RTR market. They would look like nothing else that is available. And they would have a cuteness factor that might make them irresistible (at least to me). Frankly I'm amazed no-one else has had a go at 6-wheeled stock so far (although I know there are some technical issues about making them run easily). I vaguely recall a Scottish line with very restricted loading gauge was using 6-wheel carriages after WW2 (and they weren't that old then, either).

 

I'd love to see 6-wheel stock emerging.

 

Paul

 

There are, of course, technical issues with a 6-wheeler, especially as most manufacturers striving to make ever more finescale RTR locos still feel obliged to accommodate 'train set' curves. 

 

Not beyond the whit of man in a mass-produced RTR model, I'm sure, but it is a factor to take into account.


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#17 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:33

No reason why six wheelers couldn't be used with Atlantics as well.

 The LNER had the largest collection of non-bogie passenger vehicles of any of the Big Four. Among them were the well known GNR inheritance of six wheel types. The full brake the longest lived of the lot, still lurking about the system as service vehicles (that looked like fossils!) when BR's pilot scheme diesels were running. A small selection well promoted should therefore have broad appeal.

 

 

There are, of course, technical issues with a 6-wheeler, especially as most manufacturers striving to make ever more finescale RTR locos still feel obliged to accommodate 'train set' curves. 

 

Not beyond the whit of man in a mass-produced RTR model, I'm sure, but it is a factor to take into account.

 I rather feel the Hornby compromise of a flangeless centre wheelset, with a flanged alternative supplied for display or 'larger radius' curve operation (owner to assess) is the cheap and simple solution.


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#18 31A

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:35

Continental manufacturers have been making them for years without problems (or flangeless wheels!) as far as I know:

 

http://www.gaugemast...code=Roco 54291

 

https://www.brawa.de...t-coach-c3-drg/

 

http://www.gaugemast...ischmann 507052


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#19 Edwardian

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:46

Continental manufacturers have been making them for years without problems (or flangeless wheels!) as far as I know:

 

http://www.gaugemast...code=Roco 54291

 

https://www.brawa.de...t-coach-c3-drg/

 

http://www.gaugemast...ischmann 507052

 

True.

 

I wonder how they work.

 

Received wisdom is that significant Efforts must be made when building model 6-wheel vehicles to make sure they go round corners and through points.

 

EDIT, doesn't the Bachmann HO 'Thomas' range feature a 6-wheel coach?  That won't exactly feature a Cleminson chassis!


Edited by Edwardian, 11 May 2018 - 10:47 .


#20 Bishop of Welchester

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:56

EDIT, doesn't the Bachmann HO 'Thomas' range feature a 6-wheel coach?  That won't exactly feature a Cleminson chassis!

 

Indeed, with flangeless centre wheels.


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#21 Edwardian

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:00

Indeed, with flangeless centre wheels.

 

Aha!  You see I think a Locomotion-RAILS-Rapido 6-wheel coach, should one ever appear - might need to go for a slightly more sophisticated solution.


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#22 31A

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:02

True.

 

I wonder how they work.

 

Received wisdom is that significant Efforts must be made when building model 6-wheel vehicles to make sure they go round corners and through points.

 

EDIT, doesn't the Bachmann HO 'Thomas' range feature a 6-wheel coach?  That won't exactly feature a Cleminson chassis!

 

 

A friend of mine has got some, I think they are by Brawa, but not the same as the ones in the link I posted.  He runs them on Peco Code 100 with very sharp curves (I laid the track for him, but the curves are much sharper than I would have wanted to use!); they don't seem to have any problems with it.  I'll try and remember to have a look at them next time I visit, but from memory I suspect the middle axles are in some kind of laterally sliding moulding which carries the W-irons.


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#23 tetsudofan

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:09

True.

 

I wonder how they work.

 

Received wisdom is that significant Efforts must be made when building model 6-wheel vehicles to make sure they go round corners and through points.

 

EDIT, doesn't the Bachmann HO 'Thomas' range feature a 6-wheel coach?  That won't exactly feature a Cleminson chassis!

 

Basically the middle axle moves sideways within the chassis. I'll take some pictures and post them later.

 

Keith


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#24 Edwardian

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:18

A friend of mine has got some, I think they are by Brawa, but not the same as the ones in the link I posted.  He runs them on Peco Code 100 with very sharp curves (I laid the track for him, but the curves are much sharper than I would have wanted to use!); they don't seem to have any problems with it.  I'll try and remember to have a look at them next time I visit, but from memory I suspect the middle axles are in some kind of laterally sliding moulding which carries the W-irons.

 

Basically the middle axle moves sideways within the chassis. I'll take some pictures and post them later.

 

Keith

 

Thanks, both.

 

I've often wondered if simply mounting the middle axle in a cradle (i.e. not pin point bearings to the axle boxes), would leave sufficient side-play to negotiate curves without the need to do anything to the outer wheels, such as make them pivot or what not.  

 

I've tried to stick to a 3' minimum radius, so I might be in with a chance!

 

Mind you, this is a technical discussion with which I am leading us somewhat off topic.



#25 tetsudofan

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 11:40

Right, some pics of a Bavarian 3-axle clerestory coach made, I think, by Roco (there's no name on the chassis):

 

3-axleCoach-01.jpg

 

3-axleCoach-04.jpg

 

3-axleCoach-02.jpg

 

3-axleCoach-03.jpg

 

3-axleCoach-05.jpg

 

Maybe moving a bit off topic but the pictures do show that 3-axle coaches have been done and are neat, tidy and workable but, of course, a model of this quality does not come cheap.

 

Keith


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