Hornby dublo

[Il Grifone]

It's unlikely the Dublo Duchess would have appeared in this livery. They never bothered with the post-war black, keeping with the pre-war crimson.

 

I suspect they had geared up for production in this livery pre-war and had stocks of paint and transfers to use up. The N2 tanks did get updated liveries, but they probably sold more of these since they were just over half the price of the Duchess. As it is, 'Duchess of Atholl' is only correctly liveried for a couple of years during the war. The other Duchesses kept their crimson for a bit longer, but what state it was in after the war I wouldn't like to say.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

It's unlikely the Dublo Duchess would have appeared in this livery. They never bothered with the post-war black, keeping with the pre-war crimson.

 

 

I was only saying that it was something that they could have produced rather than something that they should have produced.  Post-war shortages and rationing, as well as demand for their existing products, were such that it wouldn't have made sense to embark on a series of livery variations.

 

My aim was to introduce a bit more variety into my predominantly Dublo locomotive stud, without introducing too many items from other manufacturers.  That and that I seem to be developing a soft spot for Duchesses.  I have seven Dublo Duchesses and three Dublo Cities - i also have a three railed Tri-ang/Hornby streamlined Coronation, but we won't discuss that one here.....

[Wolseley]

I very much like your Duchess of Abercorn in the blue/grey colour scheme (which no doubt Meccano might have produced had the factory been up and running in 1946 and had the LMS persevered with the colour). If I may ask, what decals did you use and what was the shade of  blue/grey you settled on - not that I'm a perfectionist I hasten to add!?

 

 

You seem to have found out about as much as I had about this livery, so I’m afraid I can’t enlighten you further.  Before I embarked on this repaint (actually it was a bit more than a repaint - the locomotive was bought as a rather scruffy “non-runner” for £17.50) I started a thread in the prototype section of this forum to see what information was available.  It was an interesting exercise - for one thing I had always thought that this livery was more grey than blue, but found that the reverse was the case.

 

My reason for not lining the loco was partly because I did not want to finish a loco lined on one side and not on the other, even if it was like that in real life and, secondly, I wanted it to look like something that came from the Meccano factory rather than an accurate scale model, and the original Dublo Duchess of Atholl wasn’t lined.

 

The paint I used was a spray can of Tamiya AS8 US Navy Blue from their aircraft colours range.  I won’t claim it is 100% accurate but the one thing I noticed is that it is more or less the same colour that Ace Trains used for their Duchess of Abercorn.  The black was brush painted afterwards and, after the transfers and plates were added, I gave it a couple of coats of clear semi-gloss.

 

The lettering used was from Fox Transfers: LMS Post-War Locomotive Livery Lettering and Numbering, FRH4200_28666.  I have no idea if the lettering used on the Duchess of Abercorn had the red border used on standard LMS post-war lettering or not but I suspect, at this point in time, no-one else knows either.

 

The nameplates have a black background - until I saw your post in this thread I didn’t know if they were red or black, so I guessed, incorrectly as it turned out, but I’m not going to change them now.  It also seems I have spaced the tender letters a bit too far apart but, once again, I’m not going to change them now.

 

Eventually I plan to have a wartime plain black Duchess of Leicester, a lined black Duchess (I’m not sure if it will be LMS or BR lined black, maybe one of each), a blue City of Glasgow and a green City of Edinburgh.  I am, of course, not precluding the possibility of other versions either.

 

Incidentally, here's a photo of what the Duchess looked like when I started on it (I had removed the smoke deflectors to sand them back to get rid of some rust). The chassis had some bent motion and the wiring between the pick-up and the motor was missing, but it was pretty straightforward to fix - thankfully the armature was in working order.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Wolseley

[MikeCW]

You seem to have found out about as much as I had about this livery, so I’m afraid I can’t enlighten you further.  Before I embarked on this repaint (actually it was a bit more than a repaint - the locomotive was bought as a rather scruffy “non-runner” for £17.50) I started a thread in the prototype section of this forum to see what information was available.  It was an interesting exercise - for one thing I had always thought that this livery was more grey than blue, but found that the reverse was the case.

 

My reason for not lining the loco was partly because I did not want to finish a loco lined on one side and not on the other, even if it was like that in real life and, secondly, I wanted it to look like something that came from the Meccano factory rather than an accurate scale model, and the original Dublo Duchess of Atholl wasn’t lined.

 

The paint I used was a spray can of Tamiya AS8 US Navy Blue from their aircraft colours range.  I won’t claim it is 100% accurate but the one thing I noticed is that it is more or less the same colour that Ace Trains used for their Duchess of Abercorn.  The black was brush painted afterwards and, after the transfers and plates were added, I gave it a couple of coats of clear semi-gloss.

 

The lettering used was from Fox Transfers: LMS Post-War Locomotive Livery Lettering and Numbering, FRH4200_28666.  I have no idea if the lettering used on the Duchess of Abercorn had the red border used on standard LMS post-war lettering or not but I suspect, at this point in time, no-one else knows either.

 

The nameplates have a black background - until I saw your post in this thread I didn’t know if they were red or black, so I guessed, incorrectly as it turned out, but I’m not going to change them now.  It also seems I have spaced the tender letters a bit too far apart but, once again, I’m not going to change them now.

I didn't think to check the forum itself for info on the 1946 experimental livery - an obvious place to start when I come to think of it now!  Looking again at the relevant section of Locomotive Liveries of the LMS, the reference to the red background of the numberplate is to "Midland Red", i.e. LMS "maroon" rather than buffer beam red.  The assumption in the text also seems to be that the lettering and lining was in the standard express passenger form for 1946 which I interpret as the numbers and letters with fine red (maroon) lining towards the edge, as per your model. (*) But as you say, who would know much for certain these days aside from a few contemporary reports of  mixed reliability, and Casserly's photo, taken in a dim Willesden shed in the pre-digital camera age?  And your model certainly looks the part.

 

I was started on the path of Dublo restoration by a combination of nostalgia and Garry's posts and videos, combined with the simple satisfaction I get out of bringing battered items back from the brink. In that context I like your very workmanlike restoration of the Duchess of Atholl.  I did something similar with a couple of Bristol Castles, though I will change the name and number of one to add a little variety.

 

Duchesses  are my most populous model also. I have about seven, though two are in sets, an Atholl and a Montrose, and I'm hesitant about breaking up boxed sets, even pretty rough ones.  One problem for me is that, like you, I've bought two or three £20+ "non-runners" for parts (pick-ups, and metal wheeled bogies and pony trucks for "three-railing" Cities), and in all cases have got the Montroses running satisfactorily again. And then I want to restore or renew, rather than cannibalise them.  As I've said somewhere else on this thread - this can get addictive!

 

Mike

 

(*) Edit. After posting this I re-read the relevant section of Locomotive Liveries and found a footnote I had failed to read earlier.  For completeness in case anyone else regards this post (unwisely) as authoritative, I'll repeat the footnote in full: "All three engines [5573 6234 5594] were given unshaded sans serif insignia and lining in what is recorded as "gold" colour.  However. this is believed to have been in fact a pale yellow of golden shade (hence the confusion) and painted on.  The most likely explanation is that it was the "straw" shade later used with the 1946 livery and the insignia were also, probably, of the 1946 pattern but without the maroon edging.  It is not known for how long 5573 ran in grey livery." 

 

While we should be grateful for the exhaustive research which the authors have made available in this an other books, their work really does need a tough editor/peer reviewer at times. Two examples from just the footnote.The footnote refers to "grey" as the colour of 5573.  The text refers to "blue/grey" as the colour. And the second sentence of the footnote states "...this is believed to have been in fact a pale yellow......".  My old university history teacher would have put a thick line through this and written in the margin "Believed by whom?  Identify your sources, Mr W!"  Such is the way that things take on the status of immutable truth.  But, let's go back to that simple satisfaction of fixing and running Hornby Dublo!

 

M

Edited November 17, 2018 by MikeCW

[Wolseley]

I just discovered another one - I forgot I had a three-railed City of London.....

[Il Grifone]

You seem to have found out about as much as I had about this livery, so I’m afraid I can’t enlighten you further.  Before I embarked on this repaint (actually it was a bit more than a repaint - the locomotive was bought as a rather scruffy “non-runner” for £17.50) I started a thread in the prototype section of this forum to see what information was available.  It was an interesting exercise - for one thing I had always thought that this livery was more grey than blue, but found that the reverse was the case.

 

My reason for not lining the loco was partly because I did not want to finish a loco lined on one side and not on the other, even if it was like that in real life and, secondly, I wanted it to look like something that came from the Meccano factory rather than an accurate scale model, and the original Dublo Duchess of Atholl wasn’t lined.

 

The paint I used was a spray can of Tamiya AS8 US Navy Blue from their aircraft colours range.  I won’t claim it is 100% accurate but the one thing I noticed is that it is more or less the same colour that Ace Trains used for their Duchess of Abercorn.  The black was brush painted afterwards and, after the transfers and plates were added, I gave it a couple of coats of clear semi-gloss.

 

The lettering used was from Fox Transfers: LMS Post-War Locomotive Livery Lettering and Numbering, FRH4200_28666.  I have no idea if the lettering used on the Duchess of Abercorn had the red border used on standard LMS post-war lettering or not but I suspect, at this point in time, no-one else knows either.

 

The nameplates have a black background - until I saw your post in this thread I didn’t know if they were red or black, so I guessed, incorrectly as it turned out, but I’m not going to change them now.  It also seems I have spaced the tender letters a bit too far apart but, once again, I’m not going to change them now.

 

Eventually I plan to have a wartime plain black Duchess of Leicester, a lined black Duchess (I’m not sure if it will be LMS or BR lined black, maybe one of each), a blue City of Glasgow and a green City of Edinburgh.  I am, of course, not precluding the possibility of other versions either.

 

Incidentally, here's a photo of what the Duchess looked like when I started on it (I had removed the smoke deflectors to sand them back to get rid of some rust). The chassis had some bent motion and the wiring between the pick-up and the motor was missing, but it was pretty straightforward to fix - thankfully the armature was in working order.

 

P1010287.jpg

 

No criticism intended, I was just saying....

 

That white corrosion (zinc oxide?) is nasty stuff. My second 'Bristol Castle' ( the one that hasn't been repainted (several times!) kept coming out with spots of it. I think (hope) I've sealed her in the end. She has been packed away for some time. I'll have to dig her out and check. I've just acquired a low sided wagon suffering from it in a job lot. There were about a dozen of the things, so it's not a great loss. Now what can I do with all these wagons? I was going to scrap some for spares, but I haven't the heart. There was also an N2 body. It wasn't until I got the swag home and cleaned her up I realised she is a black 9596. Unfortunately the condition of the paintwork is so poor that there is just enough to identify her. Still I didn't have one, so until I find a better one at a Grifone friendly price, she'll do. The lot was priced at £15, but while I was looking at it the seller said you can have it for £10. A tenner swiftly changed hands....

Edited November 18, 2018 by Il Grifone

[MikeCW]

I just discovered another one - I forgot I had a three-railed City of London.....

Me too!  A parcel arrived from the UK in Friday's post.  "Ah," I thought, "that'll be the City Of London in poor condition which I ordered from Hattons a couple of weeks ago". (My proposed pre-Harrow City of Glasgow in blue.) The parcel felt a bit light and when I opened it up I found a boxed 0-6-2T. I had no immediate recollection of buying it, but after a quick check of my Paypal account found the transaction!  My memory isn't usually that bad.

[sagaguy]

This is my valanced SNG with the newly purchased articulated unit in a train of six teak coaches.This loco hadn`t been run for a few years & on lubricating,i discovered that i had fitted it with a neo magnet.It runs ok as you can see so i can`t see any point in messing about with it.

 

 

                           

 

                Ray.

[Wolseley]

The City of Leicester is now a work in progress and has had its first coat of paint.  It is to be modelled in its war-time guise: unlined black, no smoke deflectors and a streamlined tender.  For the tender I'm using a Triang/Hornby top and a Dublo chassis - I had to remove a bit from the base of the tender top at the front to make it sit straight and, to fix it to the Dublo base, I glued a piece of wood to the base and drilled two holes in the wood where the two screw holes are in the top - crude, but it works.

[MikeCW]

No criticism intended, I was just saying....

 

That white corrosion (zinc oxide?) is nasty stuff. My second 'Bristol Castle' ( the one that hasn't been repainted (several times!) kept coming out with spots of it. I think (hope) I've sealed her in the end. She has been packed away for some time. I'll have to dig her out and check. I've just acquired a low sided wagon suffering from it in a job lot. There were about a dozen of the things, so it's not a great loss. Now what can I do with all these wagons? I was going to scrap some for spares, but I haven't the heart. There was also an N" body. It wasn't until I got the swag home and cleaned her up I realised she is a black 9596. Unfortunately the condition of the paintwork is so poor that there is just enough to identify her. Still I didn't have one, so until I find a better one at a Grifone friendly price, she'll do. The lot was priced at £15, but while I was looking at it the seller said you can have it for £10. A tenner swiftly changed hands....

I have seen a spot of that white corrosion on only one locomotive body that came through my hands.  I take it that it's not the same as the dreaded "mazak rot" (which I think has something to do with lead contamination and causes the structure of the alloy to disintegrate(?)) but a different beast entirely which, as your post suggests, can be treated?  (£10 seems like a good score in anyone's money - not just in Grifone-friendly currency!)

 

Mike

[Il Grifone]

I have seen a spot of that white corrosion on only one locomotive body that came through my hands.  I take it that it's not the same as the dreaded "mazak rot" (which I think has something to do with lead contamination and causes the structure of the alloy to disintegrate(?)) but a different beast entirely which, as your post suggests, can be treated?  (£10 seems like a good score in anyone's money - not just in Grifone-friendly currency!)

 

Mike

 

I think it is damp related and  equivalent to rust in iron. I've had it a few Dublo items and a Matchbox car or two, though the other items were far worse than the Castle which was otherwise in excellent condition. Later Trix items (WELTROLS, hoppers, lighted brake vans etc.) all seem to suffer from it.

 

There were some other wagons in the lot including a D1 brake van fitted with a tension lock coupling - I soon sorted that!

[sagaguy]

Here`s a question.Running a rake of Hornby Dublo & wrenn Pullman cars behind one of my Dublo SR locos,i would like to add a Hornby Devon Belle observation car.Has anyone replaced the tension lock coupling with a HD version or used a Peco magni simplex coupling on Hornby coaches?.

 

                             Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here`s a question.Running a rake of Hornby Dublo & wrenn Pullman cars behind one of my Dublo SR locos,i would like to add a Hornby Devon Belle observation car.Has anyone replaced the tension lock coupling with a HD version or used a Peco magni simplex coupling on Hornby coaches?.

 

Ray.

Yes Ray, before I started using Kaydee couplings I used to put Dublo couplings on the rake ends or on tenders. I used a brass block with 3 tapped holes at the centres of the coupling and the two limiting pins. The coupling centre the distance from the buffer beam. The floor was drilled with clearance holes for the two limiter pins and screws used to hold the block protruded to make the pins. I only threw a load out about 2 weeks ago clearing out for the new TT layout to be set up and don't know if I have any more anywhere.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Here`s a question.Running a rake of Hornby Dublo & wrenn Pullman cars behind one of my Dublo SR locos,i would like to add a Hornby Devon Belle observation car.Has anyone replaced the tension lock coupling with a HD version or used a Peco magni simplex coupling on Hornby coaches?.

 

                             Ray.

 

Hi Ray,

 

There should be no problem fitting a Peco Simplex to a Hornby coach, though I haven't tried it. There may be problems running it on Dublo track however, due to the sharp curves and fine wheels are not compatible with Dublo pointwork. Nucro used to do 14mm wheelsets to Dublo standards, but these are like hen's teeth today. Being scale length it might look out of place with the short Dublo Pullman cars.

 

I do have a Hornby  Pullman 'Cynthia' (a cherished present from my daughter) stashed safely away somewhere. I'll try and dig it out and have a look.

 

Yes Ray, before I started using Kaydee couplings I used to put Dublo couplings on the rake ends or on tenders. I used a brass block with 3 tapped holes at the centres of the coupling and the two limiting pins. The coupling centre the distance from the buffer beam. The floor was drilled with clearance holes for the two limiter pins and screws used to hold the block protruded to make the pins. I only threw a load out about 2 weeks ago clearing out for the new TT layout to be set up and don't know if I have any more anywhere.

 

Garry

 

Hi Garry,

 

You should have stuck them on eBay! I'm always on the look out for Peco/Dublo couplings and could have taken them off your hands (or at least pushed up the bid price!).

My U.S stock has Kadees (or clones) (or X2fs* eventually to be replaced) but they are now a silly price. I found some no. 5s (fit almost anything!) at an exhibition a few years back being cleared at 50p and stupidly didn't buy the lot!

 

*Much maligned (someone in the states compared them to a parasaurolophus!). The problem is that the spring is usually far too strong. it just  needs to hold the hook not derail the vehicle.

 

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/dino-directory/parasaurolophus.html

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

Hi Garry,

 

You should have stuck them on eBay! I'm always on the look out for Peco/Dublo couplings and could have taken them off your hands (or at least pushed up the bid price!).

 

 

David

Hi David, it was the mounting blocks I threw away not the actual couplings.  I have a small stock of them to give away with anyone who buys my stock if it has Kadees fitted with the proviso they refit the couplings them selves.

 

I liked the original number 5's which are still available, not reduced up this way though. My friend got some on Saturday at the Wakefield show.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Thanks Garry,a while ago,Dennis Williams was trying to get some dublo couplings made to fit NEM pockets,i`ll have to email hom again to see how he got on.I use Hornby R8096 coach wheels, the back to back opened out to 14.5mm on my Trix coaches which cope with the track work very well.

 

                              Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here you are Ray, found some.  These are of different thickness's for Tenders, bogies etc.

 

I think the problem with Dublo couplings in NEM pockets will not be the fit, but to allow the slight lateral movement for coupling/uncoupling as the NEM pockets are fixed to prevent lateral movement happening.  

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

I understand peco gave up on idea of producing a NEM fitting Simplex. Their plastic version for Tri-ang replacements was less than successful in my experience. I prefer to chop the whole horrible thing off and do the job properly. I now have a boxful of tension locks. They may end up on ebay one day if I can be bothered. With the postal charges and eBat and Paypal fees it is probably not worth the effort.

 

A 4 MA countersink screw and a couple of bits of wire for stops are quite sufficient to fit a Simplex though they do need bending into a cranked shape sometimes.

[Il Grifone]

Thanks Garry,a while ago,Dennis Williams was trying to get some dublo couplings made to fit NEM pockets,i`ll have to email hom again to see how he got on.I use Hornby R8096 coach wheels, the back to back opened out to 14.5mm on my Trix coaches which cope with the track work very well.

 

                              Ray.

 

Hi Ray,

 

Are the Hornby wheels now a bit thicker than they used to be? The gauge widens out to about 18mm on Dublo points which allows a 2.5mm thick scale wheel to drop into the gap. I usually straighten out the first inch of the inner curved stock rail a bit to reduce the effect. I haven't bought any since they increased the price to around £6 a packet of 10, which was some time ago.

 

david

[sagaguy]

Hi Ray,

 

Are the Hornby wheels now a bit thicker than they used to be? The gauge widens out to about 18mm on Dublo points which allows a 2.5mm thick scale wheel to drop into the gap. I usually straighten out the first inch of the inner curved stock rail a bit to reduce the effect. I haven't bought any since they increased the price to around £6 a packet of 10, which was some time ago.

 

david

Hi David,

 

No,the wheels are a bit finer than Dublo,the back to back of 14.5 + a tad is ok.As you say,the entry to the points can be problematic but if you can access Facebook Hornby Dublo Enthusiasts page,i put a short movie on there yesterday showing my blue A4 & train of Trix coaches running through the pointwork.

 

                               Ray.

Edited November 20, 2018 by sagaguy

[Wolseley]

On the subject of Hornby Dublo, I have to report that construction of a layout will get underway shortly, as I purchased a 8'x4' sheet of 9mm plywood and nine lengths of softwood (more or less 2"x1" whatever that is in mm) as well as a quantity of screws and some alignment dowels.  The plywood sheet has been cut in three, as I wanted to be able to dismantle the layout, even though my intention is to have it permanently erected.

[sagaguy]

Best traditions of Hornby Dublo,track everywhere.I`ve managed to squeeze in my six road loco shed at last.

 

                         

 

 

 

                           Ray.

[MikeCW]

Best traditions of Hornby Dublo,track everywhere.I`ve managed to squeeze in my six road loco shed at last.

 

                          20181120_231405 (2).jpg

 

 

 

                           Ray.

Ray, I've admired the photos of your layout that have appeared on this thread. A couple of questions.  What's the approximate size of the layout? You seem to have a central operator's space. If I've got that right, do you have a lift-up section for access? ( I installed a lifting section on my "other" layout as my knees were getting a bit creaky for the "duck under".)

 

Mike

[sagaguy]

Hi Mike,it`s about 12` x  6` & yes there is a central  space.I still manage to duck under although getting up is not quite so easy these days but it`s like daily calisthenics.The boards were built in the mid 80s when i had access to a large quantity of scrap packing cases.The problem is that now,i have too much stock to have it all on the layoutat any one time so it has to be rotated,trouble is there are a lot of locos etc.which are very desirable,to that end,i have ordered another Wrenn spamcan to be converted.

 

                               Ray

 

 

 

                                

Edited November 22, 2018 by sagaguy

[MikeCW]

Thank you Ray.  12 x 6 seems a nice balance between manageability (building and maintaining it) and useability (enough room to hold a reasonable amount of stock and give one's locomotives a good gallop) - though if locomotives keep arriving at your place with the regularity at which they seem to be coming, I can understand the need for a stock rotation policy!

 

I've occasionally looked at Wrenn Scots and Spamcans, but for me the prices are a bit steep.  It's not a matter of affordability so much as my preference for acquiring battered and near defunct items and bringing them back from the brink.  And while I've sporadically added to my 1950s Hornby Dublo Christmas gift with items from internet auction sites and elsewhere over the intervening years, it's only in the last year or 18 months that I've started on the repair, rebuild, refurbish and modify activity that you, Garry, David and others do so well.

 

(I was probably a bit lazy installing the lifting section, but I get plenty of Phys. Ed. on the end of a chain saw and other machinery on our two acre section.)

 

Mike