Hornby dublo

[MikeCW]

My present project, as far as locomotives are concerned, is resurrecting a Duchess of Montrose I bought cheaply as a non-runner - and there are two more "non-runner" duchesses to follow.  The reason this one wouldn't go was that someone had cut out and removed all the wiring (including the TV suppression thingy) between the centre-rail pick-up and the brush plug.  It was also missing a brush spring and, of all things, the magnet.  It also looked like it had spent most of its life running on rails laid on carpet.  After spending an evening cleaning it up and replacing the missing bits (thankfully I had all of them in my spares box) it was up and running again.

.................................

 

I think I have enough LMS pacifics now: six Duchesses (or seven if you count the Canadian Pacific one) and three Cities.

Buying Duchess "non-runners" cheaply is a great option - though there are pitfalls I've found.  Buying a non-runner for under £25 equivalent for parts can give me a pick-up skate, bogie and pony truck with non-insulated metal wheels which can improve the electrical pick up on 2 rail "City" conversions, a set of fine valve gear for more radical conversions, and in one case a near perfect locomotive body which I swapped with an original, nicely boxed example in my very modest collection to make it even nicer.  And if it comes with a tender, that's even more useful.

 

The pitfall is that, like you, I've found that non-runners can be readily made into runners, (testimony to Hornby Dublo's sound, straightforward engineering) and then my thrifty instincts kick in.  So it goes in the "repaint/conversion" project box and I look for a another non-runner for cannibalising for parts!

 

And is it possible to have too many Duchesses? There were 38 of them as I recall (but stand to be corrected), and both of us have a very long way to go before we can match Garry's line up of A4s!

 

Mike

Edited October 9, 2018 by MikeCW

[sagaguy]

For you collectors out there with very deep pockets,sold a few days ago for £2,560

 

                     

 

        

Hornby DUBLO VERY RARE PRE WAR FACTORY REPAIRED "SIR NIGEL GRESLEY".  The body work is in perfect condition, outstanding for a pre war example.  No loss to the transfers or paint work, no glossing through handling.  It appears that it was sent back to the factory for re-wheeling as there is no signs of any fatigue in any of the locomotive or tender wheels.  The chassis appears to be original with the original type armature and pick-ups which show hardly any wear.  Tender base has the correct wheel carriers, very small amount of oxidisation on the rear wheel carrier.

The box is a factory repair carrying the number "10175" and 10174" referring to the locomotive and tender.  The box is in near perfect condition, no internal card packing or paper but there is some reproduction corrugated card for the protection of the locomotive and tender.  This is a very rare opportunity to acquire a locomotive in this stunning condition which runs superbly.

 

 

                                   Drool if you like

 

                 Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

For you collectors out there with very deep pockets,sold a few days ago for £2,560

 

                      10268Alt1.jpg

 

        

 

 

Hornby DUBLO VERY RARE PRE WAR FACTORY REPAIRED "SIR NIGEL GRESLEY".  The body work is in perfect condition, outstanding for a pre war example.  No loss to the transfers or paint work, no glossing through handling.  It appears that it was sent back to the factory for re-wheeling as there is no signs of any fatigue in any of the locomotive or tender wheels.  The chassis appears to be original with the original type armature and pick-ups which show hardly any wear.  Tender base has the correct wheel carriers, very small amount of oxidisation on the rear wheel carrier.

The box is a factory repair carrying the number "10175" and 10174" referring to the locomotive and tender.  The box is in near perfect condition, no internal card packing or paper but there is some reproduction corrugated card for the protection of the locomotive and tender.  This is a very rare opportunity to acquire a locomotive in this stunning condition which runs superbly.

 

 

                                   Drool if you like

 

                 Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Ray, it does nothing for me.

 

There looks to be something wrong with the chimney as if someone has tried to make a double from a single, which if it is the case then its value is way down.  To me its value is a £100 or so and that is if nothing is wrong with the chimney but that is me.  Obviously some fool and his money as the saying goes were soon parted  and he must have been happy paying that.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Evening Garry,Trick of the light & photo,the chimney is ok,by the way it wasn`t me,i think Jean might cut me up if i bought that LOL.

 

                  

 

            Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

Evening Garry,Trick of the light & photo,the chimney is ok,by the way it wasn`t me,i think Jean might cut me up if i bought that LOL.

 

10268Alt3.jpg

 

At least that clarified the chimney Ray, thanks.

 

Still does not appeal to me though, probably because I don't see values like others do.

 

I have got away with just buying a 12' x 8' retro TT layout which I have to hire a van for next week. Jackie still keeps saying "I thought you had enough", women just do not understand.

 

Garry

[MikeCW]

 

Evening Garry,Trick of the light & photo,the chimney is ok,by the way it wasn`t me,i think Jean might cut me up if i bought that LOL.

 

10268Alt3.jpg

 

At least that clarified the chimney Ray, thanks.

 

Still does not appeal to me though, probably because I don't see values like others do.

 

I have got away with just buying a 12' x 8' retro TT layout which I have to hire a van for next week. Jackie still keeps saying "I thought you had enough", women just do not understand.

 

Garry

I'm with you there Garry.  I don't criticise collectors who pay big prices - provided that their families are supportive and are not going without to fund an obsession - but it's not for me.  I admit to being a bit of a collector, among other things boys' books of the 1910-20 era.  You know the ones -  the cloth bindings with gold titles and pictures of plucky ex-public school subalterns holding off the Zulus at Rorkes Drift, or a British Tommy giving the Hun a straight left in the trenches.  For me it's about social history and memories of my late father's and uncles' childhood books. They also make a fine display in a bookcase in our hall. But with one exception (an impulse buy at the York book fair when Tanya and I were holidaying in the North of England a couple of years ago - we must have felt good being up there Garry!) I have rarely paid more than 15-20 pounds for a book in good condition, and often much less than that (though prices are climbing unfortunately), and I go for long periods without buying much at all.  If it appeals, and if it's a good (fair/low) price, I may buy.  But if someone wants a fancy price, they can sell it to someone else.

 

The same with trains. For me it's the pleasure of fixing, restoring, running and preserving for another 50 years, rather than the thrill of possession alone.  And after all, these are 60-80 year old toys, not a Michelangelo painting.  So  the difference between a pre-war A4 and a post war Silver King certainly isn't 2500 pounds worth for me but, to each his own.

 

On the local internet auction site a year or two ago a person put up a post-war Nigel Gresley, in very good condition and in its original box, also in v. good condition.  The seller put a low opening bid price and didn't set a reserve.  In the "Ask the seller a question" section a Dublo collector querulously demanded to know why the seller was setting such a low price and "reducing the value of our collections"?  The seller gave a very polite reply - much politer than I would have given.

 

I look forward to a photo of that retro TT layout.

 

Mike

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Mike,

 

I have been criticised by a couple of people for repainting and "devaluing" Dublo locos, one quite harshly. To them it did not matter they were mine to do what I want with. One even said they were not really mine I was just keeping them in readiness for a new owner. Mmmmm maybe someone might buy them but they are mine. That was from someone who had a pile of ***** and even tried fobbing me of with some but he got it straight back.

 

Pity I did not know you when you were in York, you could have called in for a Yorkshire Cuppa.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

I do have a lot of locos,far more than my layout can cope with all at the same time,i`m not a collector although i can`t understand how i finished up with about six EMUs,perhaps i can`t resist a bargain.The highest price i`ve ever paid so far is £380 for my Wrenn Royal Scot.I like restoring old locos & refinishing coaches etc.The remark about keeping locos for the next owner i think emanated some years ago from a dinosaur in a certain association.I shall carry on "devaluing" models to my hearts content.

 

 

                              Ray.

 

PS.Mike,you forgot Biggles!.

Edited October 10, 2018 by sagaguy

[MikeCW]

 One even said they were not really mine I was just keeping them in readiness for a new owner. 

Pity I did not know you when you were in York, you could have called in for a Yorkshire Cuppa.

 

I can sort of understand the person's comment if you were the owner of a unique, priceless medieval illuminated manuscript and wanted to draw moustaches on the saints in felt pen.  In that case there is probably an argument that some social responsibility goes with ownership,  But for mass produced 20th century toys which are there to enjoy.  Come on!

 

Ah.  Yorkshire tea! We buy it for a treat at our local supermarket to remind us of good times past. 

 

Mike 

[Nearholmer]

With ‘collectable’ Models/toys, I do think that a tipping point exists somewhere, beyond which the item is rare or unusual enough to merit ‘curatorial’ care, rather than ordinary treatment.

 

I’m thinking of things that were only produced in small numbers, or of which only a few have survived in anything like original condition. Probably more relevant to pre-1930s items, because volumes for some things were smaller, but I’ve got an early 1950s clockwork loco in almost ‘as new’ condition, one of a type made in very small numbers by the chap who later went on to engineer the Aster live steam range and that definitely falls into the ‘looking after it for the next chap’ range.

 

HD was made in large volumes, though, so the proportion of items that merit curatorial care must be very small indeed.

[Golden Fleece 30]

The A4 is an exceptional price but as normal high prices go I kept away, apart from a Dublo E3002 from Tony Cooper. My St Paddy, Liverpool, 48094 were all half or less than the standard ones seen in fact I did not even know 48094 was in a box full of items I bought so in reality cost about £20 but it did need a repaint.

 

My take on prices is the same in TT.  I will not pay the going rate just to have something.  Shopping around and being in the right place at the right time helps.  This mint boxed Britannia and tender would be over £150 on Ebay yet it cost me £12, the mint boxed DMU cost me £18 yet that would have been even more on Ebay. A chap wanted to sell a collection (I did not know it was nearly all mint and boxed including coaches and wagons) in one lot so without seeing anything, only a list, I offered £300 which he accepted and with over 50 items it made everything around the £6 mark.  That did not include all the TT catalogues produced in mint and flat condition and a few spares parts.  You can imagine how I felt when I met him to collect the lot and saw it's condition.  That is the 3rd bargain I got.  Another was via RMweb.

 

Sorry it's TT on here but thought it relevant to the discussion.

 

Garry 

[Golden Fleece 30]

With ‘collectable’ Models/toys, I do think that a tipping point exists somewhere, beyond which the item is rare or unusual enough to merit ‘curatorial’ care, rather than ordinary treatment.

 

I’m thinking of things that were only produced in small numbers, or of which only a few have survived in anything like original condition. Probably more relevant to pre-1930s items, because volumes for some things were smaller, but I’ve got an early 1950s clockwork loco in almost ‘as new’ condition, one of a type made in very small numbers by the chap who later went on to engineer the Aster live steam range and that definitely falls into the ‘looking after it for the next chap’ range.

 

HD was made in large volumes, though, so the proportion of items that merit curatorial care must be very small indeed.

We all see things differently and I appreciate those who want to keep things for others, and I can accept looking after the clockwork one, but not for the next generation. To me there is no guarantee anyone else will want it so when I have paid for it, it is mine.  I have no worries about stripping a very good loco for a renaming/repainting job.  If I had one I kept it but when a second come along the best one was kept and the other stripped no matter how nice or good it was.

 

When I depart for that model railway in the sky I will not be concerned if my collection to sold or binned, by then there will be even less collectors I guess anyway so prices will probably start to drop.

 

Garry

[Nearholmer]

For me, It’s about interesting objects continuing to be enjoyed, rather than money. Some things are simply interesting and intriguing, which is why people have clocks, microscopes, model ships etc that are 200+ years old. If a thing is genuinely interesting, there will always be someone interested in it.

 

Which isn’t to say that it’s worth conserving every one of the thousands of any given kind of mass-produced item; it clearly isn’t.

[sncf231e]

 I’ve got an early 1950s clockwork loco in almost ‘as new’ condition, one of a type made in very small numbers by the chap who later went on to engineer the Aster live steam range and that definitely falls into the ‘looking after it for the next chap’ range.

 

I would like to be the next chap for this JvR loco 

Regards

Fred

[Wolseley]

The only reservations I would have about repainting a mint Dublo loco would be the thought that if I sold it I would be able to afford two or three playworn examples of the same thing to repaint, like so:

 

 

And, if they knocked the last zero off the price of that A4, I still don't think I would buy it.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Well if some people seem to think that you should not repaint your Hornby models because it is sacrilege then I must be doomed to hell. I have repainted nearly all mine. Only my 2 8f's and 2 West country class engines have escaped the spray can. That's because they are nearly mint condition. But to go on from that premise does that mean that you should not build the rare Slaters or Milholme models engine kit you have had sat in a box for 20 years. As you are only looking after it for some one else. I mean you need to keep it original and building it would stop it being original. I have seen some stupid things said in online forums but that idea really takes the biscuit.

[sagaguy]

On to a more technical query,over the years,i have become pretty adept at solving electrical problems on HD locos/signals,other sundry items & other manufacturers locos i have repaired and/or converted to 3 rail but here is a mystery.My Green 80135 which is on an original 3 rail chassis always runs in reverse whilst all my original 3 rail locos run forward on the forward setting of the H & M controller.The centre rail is negative & the rail base is positive which gives me the correct direction of travel.I have remagnetised it with my Ron Dodd re magnetiser,N & S poles(i havn`t tried E & W yet) but whichever way the magnet is polarised,it runs in reverse.This one has got me a bit stymied!!!.

 

                   Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

On to a more technical query,over the years,i have become pretty adept at solving electrical problems on HD locos/signals,other sundry items & other manufacturers locos i have repaired and/or converted to 3 rail but here is a mystery.My Green 80135 which is on an original 3 rail chassis always runs in reverse whilst all my original 3 rail locos run forward on the forward setting of the H & M controller.The centre rail is negative & the rail base is positive which gives me the correct direction of travel.I have remagnetised it with my Ron Dodd re magnetiser,N & S poles(i havn`t tried E & W yet) but whichever way the magnet is polarised,it runs in reverse.This one has got me a bit stymied!!!.

 

                   Ray.

I have experienced similar a couple of times when remagging a motor but only with it being my fault and forgetting I had put the motor in the magnetiser the wrong way around. I sometimes wonder if the compass supplied is not always accurate as in can end up E or W at times.  Need a better one I think.

 

Certainly not had it all the time once I realised MY mistake     

 

Garry

Edited October 10, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[sagaguy]

I`ve remagged it right wayup & upside down,no difference!.I This is in the opposite way was always under the impression that the red spot on the magnet denoted north : :This is in the opposite direction to north on Rons video.I`m now repainting the cylinders on a correct running chassis prior to lining!.

 

                             Ray.

Edited October 10, 2018 by sagaguy

[Il Grifone]

There's no need to remag to reverse the direction of travel. Just rotate the magnet with the aid of a keeper of course. I gather some materials are averse to being magnetised the other way round!? The red spot is 'north' and is usually to the right looking from the rear of the motor (3 rail - 2 rail is to the left). It's still a mystery as to why the it won't reverse the magnetic circuit however.

 

With regard to repainting old toys, I would say it depends on the condition. Mint or nearly so - leave well alone, but the usual tatty examples can only benefit for a bit of TLC and a refresh of the paintwork. The usual valuation for a repaint is the same as average/good. On one of the collector sites (for Dinky Toys - another prolific spurce of overpriced items IIRC) there is a complete table of value against condition though it values the box much the same as the contents - it's just a bit of printed cardboard for goodness sake!

 

IMHO £2650 for a Dublo A4 is ridiculous, but a bit of old junk which started out in life as a Märklin LMS compound* before the war sold for £30,000 even though the loco chassis was missing (probably crumbled to dust though zinc pest).

 

Perhaps it's my monitor, but I thought pre-war tenders had 'LNER' in pale gold (like the number) and that must be the only straight A4 tender top in captivity (acetate strikes (or is that bends?) again).

 

* You could tell it was a compound because it was red and a 4-4-0 but otherwise....  This one was a bargain at £9000 (hope I'm not giving away trade secrets, bur anyone can register)  https://www.vectis.co.uk/marklin-ho-e800-4-4-0-loco-and-tender-lms-brown-inch-compound-inch-3-rail-electric_73307

[sagaguy]

Actually David,youv`e given me an idea,I`ve got some spare magnets so it would be worthwhile replacing the original magnet with one of those.

 

Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

 

Perhaps it's my monitor, but I thought pre-war tenders had 'LNER' in pale gold (like the number) and that must be the only straight A4 tender top in captivity (acetate strikes (or is that bends?) again).

 

 

The A4 tender tops changed during the Silver King era.  Early ones were acetate as David says and had very thin edges which both gave way to distortion. Later ones were different material and had a wide strengthening strip along the edges.  

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is the other extent of obtaining locos. A friend of my friend who helps me at shows said to him a couple of months ago "Garry likes 3-rail, can you give him this, we were given it for anyone who has 3-rail to give it a home).  Not bad for free.

 

It will just stay put I guess as I have all 34 BR ones, plus, a valanced body to one day make the war destroyed LNER 35th A4. 

 

That is when I ever get back to 3-rail as TT has really taken a hold these days.

 

Garry 

[Il Grifone]

Here is the other extent of obtaining locos. A friend of my friend who helps me at shows said to him a couple of months ago "Garry likes 3-rail, can you give him this, we were given it for anyone who has 3-rail to give it a home).  Not bad for free.

 

It will just stay put I guess as I have all 34 BR ones, plus, a valanced body to one day make the war destroyed LNER 35th A4. 

 

That is when I ever get back to 3-rail as TT has really taken a hold these days.

 

Garry 

 

Hi Garry,

 

That one looks good enough to keep as it is.

 

The tops still bend even in polystyrene. It's probably due to stresses in the moulding. Those 'coal' lumps are more like boulders.

 

Cheers,

David

[sagaguy]

Actually David,youv`e given me an idea,I`ve got some spare magnets so it would be worthwhile replacing the original magnet with one of those.

 

Ray.

Thanks David,the problem is now solved.I replaced the magnet with one i keep as part of a spare stock as i don`t like neo magnets.I fitted it with the North pole to the right facing forward & remaaged.The loco now goes like a bomb & in the right direction.

 

                       Ray.