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Major fire at Newton Abbot Carriage shed

gwr carriage shed fire newton abbot



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#51 chris p bacon

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 00:15

And you are an expert on these matters?

 

You don't have to be an expert, if it's not pleasing to the eye no amount of expertise matters. 

 

In the case of the Parliament building whether it's pleasing to the eye or not, it's functionality has not worked as expected.





#52 Bucoops

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 08:26

Sad to see this fine building damaged like this, I also signed the petition a while back.

 

 

Dave

 

The one beginning with A is building its third store in Chelmsford, plus 1 next to the other in Maldon. I don't know if one wants to enlarge its audience or close its compeditator. For me I only go to the other for the odd tool as the fresh food quality I tried was not up to what I have got used to.

 

 

The 3rd one being located adjacent to the biggest traffic blackspot - but of course building a low cost supermarket on teh Army & Navy won't add to that near gridlock at all will it? Got to love planners...



#53 boxbrownie

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 09:10

I cannot be too specific but my wife worked in local government and there was a very nice old engine shed which was due for listing/preservation through the council’s planning process, unfortunately the developer who had acquired the land (which was huge) upon which it sat had other ideas.......we drove through the town one Bank Holiday weekend and noticed it looked like they were working on the roof, great we thought they have started repairing the roof........Tuesday morning my wife rang me from her work and let me know the building had been “taken down” and material removed over the weekend, the builder was subsequently fined £5000......but the actual developers project was worth millions, and we wonder why these things happen!

Edited by boxbrownie, 03 November 2018 - 09:10 .

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#54 62613

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 09:59

See the demolition of Tommy Ducks about the time of the building of the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester, or shortly after. A quite well-known pub in the City Centre, it literally disappeared overnight. The fact that it was sat on a piece of prime real estate had nothing to do with it............



#55 jcm@gwr

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:27

Just musing out loud here, what if the law was changed, or modified.

So that, if a building was listed, or had a preservation order on it, the

developer/owner has a responsibility to protect it.

If the building gets 'accidentally' burnt down, (or 'damaged beyond repair')

they have to rebuild it to the original condition, that should focus their

minds to providing better security for the site!

Obviously, this implies that they would have adequate insurance!



#56 31A

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:32

Sounds a bit like this sad story:

 

https://www.timeout....-carlton-tavern


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#57 petethemole

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:47

Unfortunately the listing process is not instant, and any hint of getting a structure listed to prevent its demolition may prompt the owner/developer to pre-empt the process. Having worked in the 'heritage' sector for most of my life I am aware of several cases, including arson (by 'vagrants' or 'vandals') and demolition over a holiday weekend. One largely unspoiled early 19th century pub local to me and sold by the brewery was being considered for listing and had scaffolding erected "for roof repairs". A fire started almost immediately, access gained by the scaffolding, which was then handily in place for its demolition. The planning application for flats arrive the next day. I could probably name the arsonist; a local teenager had a reputation and record for it.


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#58 jcm@gwr

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 11:11

Just musing out loud here, what if the law was changed, or modified.

So that, if a building was listed, or had a preservation order on it, the

developer/owner has a responsibility to protect it.

If the building gets 'accidentally' burnt down, (or 'damaged beyond repair')

they have to rebuild it to the original condition, that should focus their

minds to providing better security for the site!

Obviously, this implies that they would have adequate insurance!

 

Further to this thought, if the connection can be proved between

the arsonists and developers, the site should be seized by use of

the law regarding 'proceeds from crime' (or whatever it's called)


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#59 boxbrownie

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 11:45

Unfortunately the listing process is not instant, and any hint of getting a structure listed to prevent its demolition may prompt the owner/developer to pre-empt the process. Having worked in the 'heritage' sector for most of my life I am aware of several cases, including arson (by 'vagrants' or 'vandals') and demolition over a holiday weekend. One largely unspoiled early 19th century pub local to me and sold by the brewery was being considered for listing and had scaffolding erected "for roof repairs". A fire started almost immediately, access gained by the scaffolding, which was then handily in place for its demolition. The planning application for flats arrive the next day. I could probably name the arsonist; a local teenager had a reputation and record for it.

 

Exactly this, our friend who was the heritage officer for the council was spitting nails when she found out on the Tuesday, but because it had not been listed as yet there was very little (except the fine.......eventually) she or the council could do about it.

 

She kept the listing paperwork quiet as long as she could but it went through committee first and it appears on of the elected officers "leaked" the news to the developer before it went to central government for approval, everyone had a good idea who leaked it, but hey.....money talks!


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#60 Jonboy

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 12:33

I know with Didcot power station they went through an “anti-listing” process to ensure no one could interfere with its demolition, despite the fact it only had time limited (40years or so) plannning permission in the first place...

#61 polybear

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 12:54

I cannot be too specific but my wife worked in local government and there was a very nice old engine shed which was due for listing/preservation through the council’s planning process, unfortunately the developer who had acquired the land (which was huge) upon which it sat had other ideas.......we drove through the town one Bank Holiday weekend and noticed it looked like they were working on the roof, great we thought they have started repairing the roof........Tuesday morning my wife rang me from her work and let me know the building had been “taken down” and material removed over the weekend, the builder was subsequently fined £5000......but the actual developers project was worth millions, and we wonder why these things happen!

 

Simple answer - in such events the Developer should by law rebuild the structure; in the event of arson etc. then the developer still has to rebuild, with the cost covered by the developer's insurance.  No insurance?  Tough - you're still rebuilding it, matey.  And they get a fine, a decent percentage of the project value......

Update:  Such protection should apply to things such as Trees too.

 

 

Exactly this, our friend who was the heritage officer for the council was spitting nails when she found out on the Tuesday, but because it had not been listed as yet there was very little (except the fine.......eventually) she or the council could do about it.

 

She kept the listing paperwork quiet as long as she could but it went through committee first and it appears on of the elected officers "leaked" the news to the developer before it went to central government for approval, everyone had a good idea who leaked it, but hey.....money talks!

 

Simple - as soon as initial paperwork for a listing application is submitted then the building should be considered as listed (and protected accordingly) until deemed not worthy of listing.

And any developer with a track record of playing games should be ineligible for getting planning approval, anywhere.


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#62 chris p bacon

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 23:15

Just a note about insurance. There is very little cover you can get for empty buildings, the last time I needed it there were only 3 companies offering it, and for my project 2 would not provide cover as the property was a semi and not standalone. The insurance doesn't cover you for anything other than 3rd party (should there be injury to a passer by for instance)


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#63 boxbrownie

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 09:56

Simple answer - in such events the Developer should by law rebuild the structure; in the event of arson etc. then the developer still has to rebuild, with the cost covered by the developer's insurance.  No insurance?  Tough - you're still rebuilding it, matey.  And they get a fine, a decent percentage of the project value......
Update:  Such protection should apply to things such as Trees too.
 
 

 
Simple - as soon as initial paperwork for a listing application is submitted then the building should be considered as listed (and protected accordingly) until deemed not worthy of listing.
And any developer with a track record of playing games should be ineligible for getting planning approval, anywhere.


Yes, would it not be great if this happened, it never will.
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#64 Baby Deltic

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 10:45

They are in this area,  we have gone from 1 of each store to 3 of each with more on the way. They are expanding with new builds so fast it makes you wonder how much their prices will rise to pay for all the land aquisition and build costs.
 
having said that, one build near to me has stalled and I know of one main contractor who is having 'difficulties' getting his bill paid.


Maybe Safeburys and Ascos could take a page out of the German's books and start selling good quality German tools and reasonable prices instead of the Rolson and Blackspur junk. One of the main reasons I frequent Aldl is for the tools on offer.

#65 Baby Deltic

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 10:53

Dave
 
The one beginning with A is building its third store in Chelmsford, plus 1 next to the other in Maldon. I don't know if one wants to enlarge its audience or close its compeditator. For me I only go to the other for the odd tool as the fresh food quality I tried was not up to what I have got used to.


In Colchester we currently have three Aldi and two Lidl stores which I frequent plus another Lidl on the way which is nice and close to where I live. For food I still go to Tesco generally.

#66 hayfield

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 14:35

In Colchester we currently have three Aldi and two Lidl stores which I frequent plus another Lidl on the way which is nice and close to where I live. For food I still go to Tesco generally.

 

 

I like Lidl for the non food offers, as far as food is concerned Morrisons for quality at a god price, Waitrose for choice of quality items













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