Bachmann GWR 3000 (ROD)

[Coach bogie]

Trusted sources have advised that 3099 will not be released but there will be 3016 with roundel on tender in addition to the 3031 already mentioned.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Guest dilbert]

Trusted sources have advised that 3099 will not be released but there will be 3016 with roundel on tender in addition to the 3031 already mentioned.

 

Good on Bachmann for turning this around and also to melmerby for having raised this (on RMweb and with Bachmann)... dilbert

[Ozexpatriate]

Trusted sources have advised that 3099 will not be released but there will be 3016 with roundel on tender in addition to the 3031 already mentioned.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Mike,

 

thanks for this data!

 

Grumble, grumble, pout... "shirtbutton roundel", grumble

 

The Collett coaches will have the shirtbutton as new liveries this year and the smart money in the Bachmann new releases says that the Dukedog will too. Bit of a look up for mid-to-late 30s GWR modellers.

[melmerby]

Good on Bachmann for turning this around and also to melmerby for having raised this (on RMweb and with Bachmann)... dilbert

 

 

And the chap on MREmag - not so sure I would have done so had I read MREmag before I posted!

PS. the Bachmann site now shows 3031! (again)

 

Keith

[BenL]

Attracted by the reduced price Hatton's are offering on the Bachmann BR black 30xx, I added one to a recent order with the intention of getting it put into GWR wartime weathered black for my 1947 layout. However, I did this without doing my research and was alarmed when I read on the Bachmann box that BR fitted them with shorter chimneys and new smoke box doors, implying that these were modifications that occurred post-nationalisation and making the model unsuitable for the GWR in 1947.

 

Delving into the books I've got, I've found that David Maidment's GW Eight-coupled locos book states that GWR pattern chimneys and smoke box doors were fitted from 1935. Looking at the 3 parts on the 30xx in the GWR Journal (issues 90,91 and 92), there is photographic evidence of the GWR pattern chimneys, described as 47xx chimneys, from the mid 1930s. The photos also show GWR style smoke box doors, but from the mid to late 1940s - the earliest dated photo with this kind of door is described as c.1946. Certainly nearly all of the late 40s shots, all be they mainly 1948-49, show the combination of GWR chimney and smoke box door. It's hard to imagination that these modifications were rapidly made in very early BR ownership, especially when some of the class didn't have long left in traffic.

 

So I'm starting to think that I can get away with the GWR style chimney and smoke box door in 1947 but I'd be very grateful if anyone could share any further, more definitive information they may have on this. I suspect that the book most likely to have a clear statement on this is the RCTS volume on GWR absorbed engines - I'm afraid I don't have a copy so if anyone does and would be kind enough to have a look, I'd be very grateful indeed.

 

Many thanks in advance for any insights that can be provided,

 

Ben

[tomparryharry]

Hello Ben. RCTS volume 10 is your destination here. I'm very sorry, but I can't find my copy right now. I do know it covers the modifications, particularly the use of ex-TVR chimneys on the 30xx .

 

HTH,

 

Ian.

[melmerby]

RCTS tells us that 3024/5/32 ran with Taff Vale "A" Class chimneys in the 1930s.

3085/6/9/99 also had Taff Vale chimneys but were all withdrawn by by Dec '31

 

47XX chimneys were fitted from Sep '35 starting with 3033 but it doesn't say if all were so treated.

3033 lasted until May '53.

 

Keith

[BenL]

Thanks very much indeed Keith, that's very helpful.

 

Does it say anything about the introduction of GWR style smokebox doors or when the little white 'x' was added above the number plates - I know that some classes acquired this during the war but I'm wondering if the RODs didn't get this until early BR days as I can't see any evidence of the x on photos of RODs in postwar GWR days.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ben

[melmerby]

Thanks very much indeed Keith, that's very helpful.

 

Does it say anything about the introduction of GWR style smokebox doors or when the little white 'x' was added above the number plates - I know that some classes acquired this during the war but I'm wondering if the RODs didn't get this until early BR days as I can't see any evidence of the x on photos of RODs in postwar GWR days.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ben

No detail about the smokebox doors except to mention it usually meant a new smokebox as well.

No mention of the X in the book at all.

 

Keith

[MG 7305]

The white "X" indicated improved draughting, not something applied to the 30XX.

[BenL]

Thanks very much Keith, that's really helpful. Sounds like I can get away with the BR model for GWR 1947 condition. I think the parallel buffers might be wrong, but I can live with them.

 

I only asked about the white X as the Bachmann model comes with one:

http://www.hattons.co.uk/34449/Bachmann_Branchline_31_127_Class_30xx_2_8_0_ROD_3023_in_BR_black_with_early_emblem/StockDetail.aspx

 

My understanding was that the GWR added these to some locos during the war that were permitted to exceed their prescribed loadings. BR seems to have extended the practice - for eg some Granges seem to have acquired them in BR days. But maybe it was never applied to RODs - from what one reads, it's hard to imagine them being in a condition to exceed their loadings in late GWR, early BR days.

[Miss Prism]

My understanding was that the GWR added these to some locos during the war that were permitted to exceed their prescribed loadings. BR seems to have extended the practice - for eg some Granges seem to have acquired them in BR days.

 

That's my understanding as well.

[melmerby]

Thanks very much Keith, that's really helpful. Sounds like I can get away with the BR model for GWR 1947 condition. I think the parallel buffers might be wrong, but I can live with them.

 

I only asked about the white X as the Bachmann model comes with one:

http://www.hattons.co.uk/34449/Bachmann_Branchline_31_127_Class_30xx_2_8_0_ROD_3023_in_BR_black_with_early_emblem/StockDetail.aspx

 

My understanding was that the GWR added these to some locos during the war that were permitted to exceed their prescribed loadings. BR seems to have extended the practice - for eg some Granges seem to have acquired them in BR days. But maybe it was never applied to RODs - from what one reads, it's hard to imagine them being in a condition to exceed their loadings in late GWR, early BR days.

A white X did mean a loco allowed a load above it's usual power rating.

Certain locos of County, Hall Grange and ROD classes were included, it was applied from WW2 onwards. (Source "The Great Western Way")

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[MG 7305]

The white "X" did indeed allow a load over that for the class as a whole but as far as I know it was applied once the drafting had been improved which makes sense with the enlarged superheaters introduced under Hawksworth. I stand to be corrected but I do not think the 300xx with their non GWR boilers had any significant development at that time.

[Miss Prism]

Here's 3042 with a white X, 22 Feb 1953:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Swindon_Works_ex-GWR_%27ROD%27_2-8-0_geograph-2927845-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

[melmerby]

The white "X" did indeed allow a load over that for the class as a whole but as far as I know it was applied once the drafting had been improved which makes sense with the enlarged superheaters introduced under Hawksworth. I stand to be corrected but I do not think the 300xx with their non GWR boilers had any significant development at that time.

All the 50 that were properly maintained (3000-49) had Swindon superheaters, copper fireboxes, top feed, Swindon safety valves etc. and the boiler, although externally like the Robinson boiler, was also Swindonised with different tubing arrangements to the original.*

The batch 3050-99 never got the boiler "upgrades"

 

Keith

 

EDIT *I wonder why Swindon would design a new boiler along the same lines?

In 1938 there was a proposal to fit a Swindon No.1 boiler to them but it wasn't proceeded with.

Edited December 20, 2017 by melmerby

[SDJR7F88]

Hi all, bit of a silly question, but did any of these locomotives run during WW1 with the GWR design features? Or were they modification made to returned ROD's that the GWR purchased in 1919? Tempted to try to put one into ROD livery if they ever carried it (will only be a rough representation if so) 

Callum

[Black 5 Bear]

Callum,

I'm pretty sure that 3000 class were originally all traditional Robinson builds as per the Bachmann 04.

I stand to be corrected, but the GWR originally leased them and later bought these locos from the government/WD on their return from war duties.

It was only under full GW ownership that GWR mods (Chimney and Safety Valve covers) essentially were completed.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Black 5 Bear

[Steamport Southport]

Hi all, bit of a silly question, but did any of these locomotives run during WW1 with the GWR design features? Or were they modification made to returned ROD's that the GWR purchased in 1919? Tempted to try to put one into ROD livery if they ever carried it (will only be a rough representation if so) 

Callum

 

They weren't Swindonised until 1926/7 and it was only the first 50 that were rebuilt. Nos 3000 to 3049.

 

The rest, Nos 3050 to 3099 were given light overhauls and worked until they needed another overhaul. They were then withdrawn and broken up for spares. Mainly it was the tender that was kept and used on other locomotives. All of these had gone by 1930.

 

 

Jason

[melmerby]

They weren't Swindonised until 1926/7 and it was only the first 50 that were rebuilt. Nos 3000 to 3049.

 

The rest, Nos 3050 to 3099 were given light overhauls and worked until they needed another overhaul. They were then withdrawn and broken up for spares. Mainly it was the tender that was kept and used on other locomotives. All of these had gone by 1930.

 

 

Jason

The Swindonised locos got a green paint job but the rest (3050-99) were just painted black

Swindonising was done on the basis of the state of the locos. Some were almost brand new and some were well second hand.

 

The first 20 were bought by the GWR in 1919 and had just been built. They were given the numbers 3000-19

The GWR also hired another 84 which were given the numbers 3020-99 & 6000-3*, These were later returned to the Government.

 

The GWR then purchased 80 in 1925, some of which had previously been on hire. They were very mixed bunch including some that had served in France and were temporarily given the numbers 3020-99.

They were soon gathered at Swindon for scrutiny where the best 30 were chosen to be Swindonised and given the numbers 3020-49, the rest were numbered 3050-99.

 

*Some of the previously hired locos ended up on the LNER!

The LNWR also bought some RODs but the LMS got rid of them by IIRC 1930.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

Postscript to my previous post.

The LNWR ordered 50 RODs but only 30 had been delivered at the grouping, the remaining 20 arrived on the LMS.

The last was withdrawn by the LMS in Autumn 1933.

 

Keith

[adb968008]

And the L&Y acquired some, isn’t one of the ones in Australia an ex-L&Y one ?

 

In one of the L&Y publications there is a picture of a 4-6-0 Dreadnought at Horwich works with an ROD tender.

[melmerby]

And the L&Y acquired some, isn’t one of the ones in Australia an ex-L&Y one ?

 

In one of the L&Y publications there is a picture of a 4-6-0 Dreadnought at Horwich works with an ROD tender.

According to Wikipedia they only had them on hire in 1919, transferred to the GWR & LNWR in 1920

 

Keith

[DJM Dave]

It may or may not be of interest to those on this topic, but i was asked to survey both ROD's at the Dorrigo Steam Museum a good few years back. The project never came to anything but the photographs may be of interest to some of you, as they contain some of the photographs i took for the photo part of the survey.

 

If i remember correctly they had a GC and a GWR version there.

 

try www.davejonesphotography/zenfolio

then 'trains of the world' folder

Then 'Dorrigo Railway Museum'

 

Then, enjoy. It was fun in the sun and long grass watching for snakes and spiders, and i had exclusive access for this. Quite fun watching coach trips come up the adjoining road full of tourists, to turn round and go back down the road and not able to get out of the coach.

The place is recommended if you can get access, and reminded me from looking out the cab window down the boiler of a ROD of Barry Scrapyard in its heyday.

Hope some of you find it of interest.

 

Cheers

Dave

[gwrrob]

On 17/12/2017 at 13:03, BenL said:

Attracted by the reduced price Hatton's are offering on the Bachmann BR black 30xx, I added one to a recent order with the intention of getting it put into GWR wartime weathered black for my 1947 layout. 

 

 

To resurrect this old thread to ask @BenL if you ever do one of these in black and wondered if they had GWR on their tenders. There's a very nice photo of 3005 on the west of England mainline in Somerset dated October '47.