Jump to content


Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.

Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

New & Improved Class 33





  • Please log in to reply
506 replies to this topic

#201 BR(S)

BR(S)

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,877 posts

Posted 20 October 2013 - 18:31

is this model not accurate then?

 

http://www.ehattons....tockDetail.aspx

 

 

The main issue was with the 33/0 having an incorrect roof profile; this was changed on the 33/1 and 33/2. 

 

More details on the other changes that will be made can be found at http://www.railexclu...php?category=83


  • Like x 1

Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.

#202 rogace

rogace

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 20 October 2013 - 18:37

The main issue was with the 33/0 having an incorrect roof profile; this was changed on the 33/1 and 33/2. 

 

More details on the other changes that will be made can be found at http://www.railexclu...php?category=83

ah ok thanks, so my d6580 should be half decent then



#203 griffgriff

griffgriff

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,765 posts

Posted 20 October 2013 - 18:49

IIRC there was an issue about the green bagpipe but I can't for the life remember what it was... it was the only one in green as the prototype so I'm thinking the bits and bobs added during conversion was changed for the 'production' conversions, was it something to do with the air pipes I wonder??? I have absolutely no idea and I maybe completely wrong as it's well before my era.



#204 rogace

rogace

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 20 October 2013 - 19:02

IIRC there was an issue about the green bagpipe but I can't for the life remember what it was... it was the only one in green as the prototype so I'm thinking the bits and bobs added during conversion was changed for the 'production' conversions, was it something to do with the air pipes I wonder??? I have absolutely no idea and I maybe completely wrong as it's well before my era.

ok ta very much...

 

just found this, 

 

As a step towards the removal of steam from the Waterloo - Bournemouth services, D6580 was modified for remote operation with a modified rake of electric multiple unit stock and tested between Wimbledon Park & Basingstoke commencing July 21st 1965. The following month the newly delivered 4-TC stock was available for high speed testing on the Bournemouth line. The addition of the three jumpers on each side of the cabfront of D6580 and the selection of a small rectangular yellow warning panel did not improve the aesthetics of the cab front. D6580 would later be modified to have its push-pull equipment conform to the other 18 locomotives.


Edited by rogace, 20 October 2013 - 19:08 .

  • Thanks x 1

#205 griffgriff

griffgriff

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,765 posts

Posted 20 October 2013 - 19:17

ok ta very much...

 

just found this, 

 

As a step towards the removal of steam from the Waterloo - Bournemouth services, D6580 was modified for remote operation with a modified rake of electric multiple unit stock and tested between Wimbledon Park & Basingstoke commencing July 21st 1965. The following month the newly delivered 4-TC stock was available for high speed testing on the Bournemouth line. The addition of the three jumpers on each side of the cabfront of D6580 and the selection of a small rectangular yellow warning panel did not improve the aesthetics of the cab front. D6580 would later be modified to have its push-pull equipment conform to the other 18 locomotives.

... and I think it may have been repainted blue at the same time... but I'm not completely sure?



#206 lapford34102

lapford34102

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,559 posts
  • LocationEast of the Greenwich Meridian

Posted 20 October 2013 - 20:28

Hi,

D6580 had no buckeye or buffing plate and  might have had the original exhaust setup so was basically a Crompton with jumpers So the Heljan model is not strictly correct.

Was very elusive photo wise. This is one of the few http://class33.zxq.n...mptonLivery.htm

HTH

Stu



#207 Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,083 posts
  • LocationDown there or up here, depends.

Posted 20 October 2013 - 20:56


Was very elusive photo wise. This is one of the few http://class33.zxq.n...mptonLivery.htm

HTH

Stu

 

Can't for the life oif me remember where I saw them, but there are some taken at Derby, RTC I think, after it's conversion.

 

Mike.



#208 Captain Kernow

Captain Kernow

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18,087 posts
  • LocationWhere did you say that we were?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:18

Rail Exclusives have written today, announcing a postponement in this project, due to a change of manufacturer. The letter advises that Heljan are no longer producing this model, but doesn't say who the new manufacturer will be. There seems every intent to continue with the project, and Phillip Sutton apologies for the delays to this model.


  • Thanks x 4
  • Agree x 1
  • Like x 1

#209 DJM Dave

DJM Dave

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,295 posts
  • LocationLiverpool for my sins

Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:33

There had been talk about this situation going back at least since June, when I learned about it at the Wigan show.

It wouldn't surprise me if Heljan themselves produce an improved version.

#210 frobisher

frobisher

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • LocationGlenfarg, Scotland

Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:52

Captain Kernow, on 23 Oct 2013 - 10:18, said:
Rail Exclusives have written today, announcing a postponement in this project, due to a change of manufacturer. The letter advises that Heljan are no longer producing this model, but doesn't say who the new manufacturer will be. There seems every intent to continue with the project, and Phillip Sutton apologies for the delays to this model.

My supposition would be that either Dapol (with an N gauge version already being prepared...) or Bachmann have taken up the reins, with Vi Trains a distant outsider but there being a relationship there already. I don't think I'd be unhappy with any of those three doing the job to be honest.

#211 DJM Dave

DJM Dave

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,295 posts
  • LocationLiverpool for my sins

Posted 23 October 2013 - 13:47

Hi Frobisher,
If it helps, when I left I wasn't working on any 33's.
That's not to say things have changed there, but rumour control does at present point to a Heljan revamp.
  • Informative/Useful x 1

#212 BR(S)

BR(S)

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,877 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:00

I assume although Heljan didn't originally want to revamp their 33s (I'm specifically thinking here of the roof profile on the 33/0) the proposed Rail Exclusives models have indicated that there is a decent market for an altered model (especially if released as single items rather than in the proposed pairs), including smaller changes to the 33/1 and 33/2.  They might have decided that there was more money to be made in a general release model rather than giving someone else a more limited exclusive release.  While the 33 wasn't as widespread as say the 37 and 47, they were spread throughout the Southern Region and privatisation took them further afield.

 

I'd imagine that any other company will wait to see what Heljan's plans are before jumping in. 


Edited by BR(S), 23 October 2013 - 14:02 .


#213 pauliebanger

pauliebanger

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,770 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:09

Hi Frobisher,
If it helps, when I left I wasn't working on any 33's.
That's not to say things have changed there, but rumour control does at present point to a Heljan revamp.

 

Not very likely.



#214 DJM Dave

DJM Dave

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,295 posts
  • LocationLiverpool for my sins

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:22

Well it's only a month from Warley so an announcement of some sorts wouldn't surprise me tbh.
  • Agree x 1
  • Like x 1

#215 Perchpole

Perchpole

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:22

It wouldn't surprise me if Heljan themselves produce an improved version.

 

Given the circumstances I think that highly unlikely.



#216 pauliebanger

pauliebanger

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,770 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:22

I assume although Heljan didn't originally want to revamp their 33s (I'm specifically thinking here of the roof profile on the 33/0) the proposed Rail Exclusives models have indicated that there is a decent market for an altered model (especially if released as single items rather than in the proposed pairs), including smaller changes to the 33/1 and 33/2.  They might have decided that there was more money to be made in a general release model rather than giving someone else a more limited exclusive release.  While the 33 wasn't as widespread as say the 37 and 47, they were spread throughout the Southern Region and privatisation took them further afield.

 

I'd imagine that any other company will wait to see what Heljan's plans are before jumping in. 

 

And it's taken Heljan 2 years to work this out?



#217 Perchpole

Perchpole

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:36

And it's taken Heljan 2 years to work this out?

 

When you're sitting on a big pile of your client's cash it pays dividends - quite literally - to hang on to it before you're told to give it back.


  • Like x 1

#218 BR(S)

BR(S)

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,877 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 14:50

And it's taken Heljan 2 years to work this out?

 

 

When you're sitting on a big pile of your client's cash it pays dividends - quite literally - to hang on to it before you're told to give it back.

 

Exactly.  Heljan already have a model in the market place and I'd imagine they've made good money from it, the 33/1 and 2 being considered decent representations of the class.  If they can let someone else take the risk on a re-vamped model and then reap the rewards from various angles then so be it.  Not how I like to live my life, but then that's why I'm not in business.  Of course, I should add that this is all speculation on my part without any knowledge of the process involved. 

 

I'd love to know more about what's gone on behind-the-scenes between Heljan and Rail Exclusives, but I don't suppose we'll get to hear about it.


Edited by BR(S), 23 October 2013 - 14:51 .


#219 Perchpole

Perchpole

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:06

The next time you pre-order an item, just remember that the company who commissioned the model has zero control over anything. Both them and you are entirely at the whim of the manufacturer.

If the manufacturer decides to delay the project, what are you going to do? If the manufacturer decides to sit on the project, or maybe go and do something more lucrative, what are you going to do?

The only thing you can do is cancel the project - but when that happens, the manufacturer might demand a cancellation fee.

Sound unfair?

Best let a judge decide.



#220 meld

meld

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 501 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:14

Well it's only a month from Warley so an announcement of some sorts wouldn't surprise me tbh.

 

Or Me Dave, Or Me.

 

Mike


  • Agree x 1

#221 Andy Y

Andy Y

    RMweb Editor


  • Administrators
  • 14,117 posts
  • LocationStaffs

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:16

The next time you pre-order an item, just remember that the company who commissioned the model has zero control over anything. Both them and you are entirely at the whim of the manufacturer.

If the manufacturer decides to delay the project, what are you going to do? If the manufacturer decides to sit on the project, or maybe go and do something more lucrative, what are you going to do?

The only thing you can do is cancel the project - but when that happens, the manufacturer might demand a cancellation fee.

Sound unfair?

Best let a judge decide.

 

It's evident you have a vested interest in this situation and I understand frustrations may surface (on either side) and it's possible that contractual clauses could mitigate losses in such areas (especially with hindsight) but conversely may place additional obligations on the commissioner of a model. If there are any legal proceedings it may be wise to not let anything spill over.


  • Agree x 5

#222 frobisher

frobisher

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • LocationGlenfarg, Scotland

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:33

If it helps, when I left I wasn't working on any 33's.
That's not to say things have changed there, but rumour control does at present point to a Heljan revamp.


Cheers for that Dave, you'll obviously know way better than I what you are and aren't allowed to talk about in a Dapol context, and I wasn't fishing, honest :) So possibly a case of Heljan finally seeing the potential market then.

#223 DJM Dave

DJM Dave

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,295 posts
  • LocationLiverpool for my sins

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:35

Hi mate,
Dapol didn't ask me to sign a non disclosure so I could spill everything!
However if I did that who would buy my book? ;-)
  • Like x 5

#224 stewartingram

stewartingram

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,266 posts
  • LocationChatteris, Cambridgeshire

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:47

The next time you pre-order an item, just remember that the company who commissioned the model has zero control over anything. Both them and you are entirely at the whim of the manufacturer.

If the manufacturer decides to delay the project, what are you going to do? If the manufacturer decides to sit on the project, or maybe go and do something more lucrative, what are you going to do?

The only thing you can do is cancel the project - but when that happens, the manufacturer might demand a cancellation fee.

Sound unfair?

Best let a judge decide.

Not quite true.

 

Depends on the savvy of the person dealing with the manufacturer and what he stipulates in his contract.

A simple one-line contract (Produce me a better 33) would be the equivalent of your thinking. But write detailed specs as to what you want, with quality checks built in, and timescales, and YOU are in charge. It would be the manufacturer paying up for failing in the contract.

 

Stewart


  • Agree x 4

#225 Perchpole

Perchpole

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 15:55

It's evident you have a vested interest in this situation and I understand frustrations may surface (on either side) and it's possible that contractual clauses could mitigate losses in such areas (especially with hindsight) but conversely may place additional obligations on the commissioner of a model. If there are any legal proceedings it may be wise to not let anything spill over.

 

Hi, Andy -

Not at all. I certainly don't have a vested interest - nor am I aware of any impending legal proceedings. That said, I do feel companies such as Rail Exclusives deserve credit for standing firm when the odds are stacked against them.

 

A victory for David against Goliath in this case.









Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.